What to eat when grassfed meat is not available?

[Neone]

I have a question and was wondering what other people would do.
I am trying to get someone to eat a more paleo diet than they currently are. When people are used to eating grains the jump in the cost of food is a little stark.

Grassfed meat is pretty scarce around here, although available every so often.  What would you recomend somebody to eat?

Grainfinished local beef with no hormones/antibiotics is plentiful but I personally after eating grassfed do not think it is very good for you, but if thats all you have?

Are you going to be ok eating a local grainfed meat heavy diet with some local fruits/veggies?  I have never eaten grainfed meat for long periods of time and I was never a fan of it, but if you do not have tastes accoustomed to grassfed, will you fare better than on a grain-heavy diet? or will you have a terrible time relative since in a sense you are still eating grains?

This is a pretty rambled question but I dont know what to recomend to somebody else who is used to budgeting (mother/daugher) a weeks groceries under $50.  In the end i think meat is the best bang for your buck, but then again i dont know what it would be like eating grainfed fats for your fats?  They want to eat better, but how does someone afford it(or when grassfed is just not available)?

[TylerDurden]

Most appear to do badly on raw grainfed meats, some very badly. I've only come across 1 or 2 claims that some individual or other recovered on a diet consisting partially of raw grainfed-meat diet.

At the worst, it would be best eat things like raw seafood instead for all the protein and just eat grainfed raw fat like raw marrow. You should also supplement with Mercola's krill oil in order to make up for the lack of omega-3s.

My own experience was that raw grainfed meats not only were extremely unhealthy but they tasted so foul in many cases that I simply couldn't have continued with a RVAF diet, I would have had to cook them.

And it's a total myth that going rawpalaeo means you pay more. In actual fact, one makes many savings by cutting out SAD-diet "foods" like sweets, chocolates, alcohol, getting rid of bad habits like smoking , and so on. Plus, when I was in my pre-rpd days, my appetite was absolutely insatiable, forcing me to eat endless amounts of crisps and other junk-food(chiops in US slang?). Post-rpd, my food-intake is a lot less, by comparison.

[Sitting Coyote]

For what it's worth, I think it's more important to avoid hormone- and antibiotic-laden meat than to avoid grain-fed.  So I'd advocate for trying the grain-fed, or grain-finished, before giving up.  While many people here staunchly advocate for grass-fed, I've never seen any convincing evidence that favored grass-fed meat over grain-fed for human consumption.  Grass-fed is certainly better for the cow, though.

Eating grain-fed will help to keep costs down.  Another cost-cutting option is to buy organs rather than meat.  They're more nutrient dense anyway, and often cost much less.  I hunt so don't buy any meat, but when I see beef liver or heart for $0.99 (US) per pound, it's hard to pass up such a nutrient dense food at such a low cost.  And it breaks up the monotony of eating deer, day after day...  I don't intentionally favor grass-fed when I buy organs, but the suppliers of hormone- and antibiotic-free meat at my local market are all grass-fed so it ends up that the organs I buy are grass fed. 

Another option you may have is get most of your animal protein and fat from hormone- and antibiotic-free, free range eggs.  All of the nutrients required to build a baby chicken are stored in that egg, so it's very nutrient dense.  I've heard people say that fertile eggs are better than infertile.  I buy fertile free-range eggs because they're cheaper here in Vermont, but I can't say I've noticed any difference nor have I ever seen any convincing evidence that one is better than the other.

Hope this helps.

[TylerDurden]

Incidentally, AV recommend heavily against eating raw organs from grainfed etc. animals as he believes the organs store many of the toxins from the unhealthy food. Given my own experience, I believe him.

[Neone]

I have found a raw meat diet very expensive.  For some months of the year i can get grassfed beef at $3.50lb  but generally it costs me at least $5.50lb for bison (only 100% grassfed meat around here), and once i buy all of the "cheap" meat im up to $7+ cuts of meat, i usually have to just stop eating meat and go on a fruitarian diet until the next animal is sent in (I buy all the organs/fat of the animals too). So for just me to eat a week is at least $70, plus I also have my wifes food in there (say, another $50) and my cat and dog eating raw(grainfed) too (another say, $20), so my food bill a week is like, $150, minimum for my family.... compare that to when I was a kid 8 years ago living off of grains, we could buy a weeks groceries for $30... thats a difference of $120, a week...  you're kidding if you think the 'cost of health' isnt an incredible ammount.

My wife and I are about 3 weeks away from taking our tent and guns and we are heading into the great white north and a big reason for that is that its just getting too much trying to acquire quality foods and even then we feel farmed pales in comparason to wild foods. Since there isnt really any 'going back' once you start feeling really good eating raw we didnt have many other options haha (and we always wanted to live outdoors anyway, we're just doing it a lot sooner)

I just dont know what to recomend to somebody who wants to eat healthy but can not afford $100+ a week on groceries.

[KD]

I think its highly unrealstic to expect families to eat well at this figure range, because it barely meets the absolute minimum proposed in this FDA statistic. These people are also presumably eating out, getting take-out coffee, alcohol, buying medicine and other products.

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2007/CostofFoodAug07.pdf

I also find my food bill is much less, and if things were really dire, I could live mostly on raw fat and cheap organ meats I suppose. In comparrison to cooked primal/paleo diets, which require tons of produce, nuts and oils and other staples etc (which they also deem to be cost effective in comparison to SAD) raw paleo has the potential to be even cheaper than any 'fresh foods' diet I've ever been on, even eating all grass-fed.

[Sitting Coyote]

If you're limiting yourself to buying meat, then certainly eating a raw paleo diet will be very expensive.  Doubly so if you limit yourself to grass-fed meats, and trebly-so if you limit yourself to gourmet domestic game animals like bison.  Hunting helps to lower costs a lot, and learning your wild edible and medicinal plants helps even more.

[Neone]

haha its not that im 'limiting' myself to meat.. its more that after eating meat for a while, anything that isnt meat just isnt food anymore.. i kind of got myself stuck haha. 

 We are big fans of wild edibles, except that we dont really concider them as edible as we used to... have you ever munched down a bunch of dandelion?  would you really eat it as a food?  Other than fruits which are only occasional (in canada) what wild foods would you WANT to eat in the same way that i WANT to eat good quality grassfed meat? (I do not get the same, i WANT to eat this from grainfed.. more like a DO NOT SWALLOW haha)

but this isnt about me, Its more for suggestions on foods for somebody to eat who is on a budget and cannot afford meat at $5.50lb (again, thats what it costs around here, you pay that, or you dont get grassfed..) Fish is $7lb for the cheap stuff pretty much which pales next to red meat as far as nutes for your buck go....

What a predicament haha...

[djr_81]

have you ever munched down a bunch of dandelion?  would you really eat it as a food? 

I did for the first time over the weekend. It was fantastic. Loaded with the sweet earthyness of spring and sunshine along with a nice bitter counterpoint. It is definitely not a food of sustenance but it would absolutely work in a pinch. I look at it much like berries; it's a treat of happenstance while hunting for your next real meal.

For the record I was eating essentially cooked paleo prior to starting RAF. Even eating commercial chicken thighs for most of my meals my food bill was comparable to where it is now due to the quantity you need to eat when food is cooked. If I splurged for red meat it was well above what I pay now. It was also abysmal fare which just furthered my downward health spiral.
Granted, if you're eating 95% refined carbs you're going to experience an increase in your food bills (although my food is roughly equal to my wife's food bill each week and she eats what is barely a step above SAD as she's not eating most grains, just tapioca and quinoa). Isn't that ~10-15% increase (if you're a good shopper for suppliers) worth it for the health gains?

[miles]

Do you eat only grass-fed meat djr?

[djr_81]

Do you eat only grass-fed meat djr?

Up until this weekend when I tried the dandelions I figured I'd eating purely carnivore but it looks like there's hope for the occasional plant if it's wild enough. As a function of both my food allergies and Candida I've been eating only meat for the last 8 months with the occasional test of a carb to see my reactions.
I'd say on average 98% of my meat is from grass-fed animals, predominantly beef, while the remaining is wild game (deer). If things go well this year I'll be eating a much higher percentage of wild game.

[Sitting Coyote]

One thing I've noticed since going mostly raw is that my tastes have changed.  If you're used to eating intensely sweet, processed foods, then yes dandelions are horrible.  But if you stop eating intensely sweet, processed foods for awhile your tastes will probably moderate, and foods that were previously unbearably bitter will taste fine.  I love dandelions.  Here in Vermont things are just starting to get green, and I imagine it's about time to start walking along the edges of a few organic farms nearby and harvesting vast quantities of one of North America's premier survival foods (dandelions). 

While I do enjoy the taste of raw meat, particularly organ meats like liver, I can't say I enjoy it more than eating plant foods.  Probably the only summer green I enjoy more than dandelion is lambs quarters.  And then there's purslane... 

Food for thought...

[Ioanna]

djr - are you tolerating the veg okay?  i'd like to try some small amounts too, just not sure where to start.

[djr_81]

djr - are you tolerating the veg okay?  i'd like to try some small amounts too, just not sure where to start.

I'm tolerating them fairly well. No brain fog or stomach problems. I've had an itchy anus the past couple days which is usually a sign of trouble for me but I'm unsure of the source. I had a bottle of seltzer which causes similar problems a couple days ago which might have been the cause and not the dandelions. I'm going to eat more dandelions in another week or two and see if it causes a similar reaction.

While I do enjoy the taste of raw meat, particularly organ meats like liver, I can't say I enjoy it more than eating plant foods.  Probably the only summer green I enjoy more than dandelion is lambs quarters.  And then there's purslane... 

Food for thought...

I'd like to pick up a guide (or better yet go hiking with someone knowledgeable) on edible foraging so I could identify wilder foods and see how I do with them. Dandelions are an easy plant to identify but I don't know the others instantly by sight.

[KD]

I'd like to pick up a guide (or better yet go hiking with someone knowledgeable) on edible foraging so I could identify wilder foods and see how I do with them. Dandelions are an easy plant to identify but I don't know the others instantly by sight.

Theres a guy in NYC named Steve Brill that does exactly that. You often come across over 20 types of edibles even in the urban parks.
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/

[KD]

Just don't eat from this catfish farm:

[djr_81]

Theres a guy in NYC named Steve Brill that does exactly that. You often come across over 20 types of edibles even in the urban parks.
http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/

Thank you so much KD.
He's got a walking tour in Brewster on June 27th. That's about a 30 minute drive from here and it should be gorgeous that time of year. I think I'll see if the wife would like to attend.

[TylerDurden]

As a child, I used to forage around in the forests around my city and I'd devour the garlic leaves I found there which were on vast numbers even in late autumn.

[Hans89]

Hunting... I live in the wrong country. It seems too expensive in terms of money and time here. And I guess my next stop (Taiwan) isn't really going to be ideal either.

Last year I was eating a cooked high fat, moderate carb, moderate protein diet that was low-fiber. The cost was 1/4-1/2 of what I pay now... But healthwise it's so much better, so I need a good job or something to keep it up.

[Neone]

Haha, well it looks like I have gone the opposit, where I used to eat a lot of dandelion and leeks at this time of the year.. after eating meat dandelions are pretty Yuck and leeks burn the shit out of my mouth and I need to broth them first to take the unpleasantness out of it.. Last year I also noticed that I could not eat more than 1-2 wild apples before my mouth got all fucked up and sore from them, where as before when i used to be a veggie, i would eat 10+ apples a day no problem..

Im not saying that they are so horrible that i would not eat them anymore, i am still munching on them as i stroll through the woods looking for shrooms, just that I would not be putting them in my mouth as a source of food unless i was starving to death. You would not want to LIVE off of them, eating large quantities of them every day.