Veggies over fruits?

[proteus]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pHINwjeuF9gC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=DHA+in+ruminant+fat&source=bl&ots=_qTcTbaDfh&sig=cqNlpyarrxI32C10T25q63NydaA&hl=en&ei=uqR7TdeSA5KHhQeuma3zBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=DHA%20in%20ruminant%20fat&f=false

ok ok i get it !  fish and animals contain DHA, plants only precursor.

but tell me ( and i know dairy is not paleo, but i like cream cheese ) - which would be a better source of DHA - fatty meats ?  liver ? eggs ? or milk fat ?

since i started posting here a few days ago i have started tossing whole eggs into my smoothies where before the only fat in them was from seeds.

does an omega 3 egg contain DHA ?

[achillezzz]

Yes it is.

[proteus]

Yes it is.

how so ?

[achillezzz]

how so ?

Oh sorry I just read the facts and it doesnt.

Currently there are many products on the market which claim to contain health promoting "omega 3", but contain only ALA, not EPA or DHA. These products contain mainly plant oils and must be converted by the body to create DHA and are therefore less effective. DHA and EPA are made by microalgae that live in seawater.

[miles]

You're not being too bright.  The fact is that those studies showed that brain-size decreased by 8 percent once we switched from the Palaeolithic era to the Neolithic era. The only major change around that time was a major reduction of animal food in the human diet and a corresponding consumption of grains, dairy and legumes. Given that the Eskimoes have the largest brain-sizes and were until recently eating all-animal food diets(well, 96 to 99 percent at least), that supports the notion that it was the eating of meat that made human brains bigger and that a reduction in meat-consumption led to a smaller brain-size.

How do Eskimo brains compare in size to those pre-agricultural brains which are said to have decreased in size by 8% to the modern day?

I ask because Esqimaux also have access to a lot of omega-3 specifically, from fish/seal oils etc, as well as having a diet high in raw animal food and just animal food in general.

[sabertooth]

look guys, your arguments are mostly crap, but thank you for bringing up the whole DHA vs ALA issue.  i heard that fish oil is the best source of W3 before, and bought fish oil capsules for my parents to help with THEIR diet, but for myself i continued relying on blended seeds ( hemp and chia )

i didn't think conversion rate was so low.  now i will either add some fish oil to my own diet or increase my seed-based W3 intake by going for that pure chia oil after all, rather than blending seeds.  

if ALA is just a precursor, it makes me less afraid of overdosing on it.

Excuse me but I don't think what I have posted is crap, these are my beliefs and If you have any intelligent argument to prove me, or who ever else you may be responding to, wrong, then I am sure we all would love to here it.

as for your theory about the conversion rate being high, it may be possible while one is young to be able to handle large amounts of ala's along with other volatile plant oils, but over time(mark my words) the anti nutrients that are contained within if consumed in high enough amounts, will ravage your hormonal systems, and it will result in negative health effects over time.

How old are you and how long have you been using plant oils?

the negative effects may take years to show, but mark my words you are putting yourself at risk for major health issues. It may take ten years or more depending on how well you are constituted, but if you continue to consume enough hemp, chia, or whatever other seeds you are blending, you will experience negative health effects.

There are many examples of long lived and healthy people who used raw animal fats as a primary source of nourishment.

What examples do you have that the oils of seeds are somehow supperior?

Excess ALA can be harmful once the body ages and becomes less able to convert it efficiently. There are also many toxic byproducts in plant oils that an older body wont be able to cope with.

[sabertooth]

seeds are packed with enzyme inhibitors specifically to prevent getting digested so they can pass through your digestive system and plant themselves in the soil intact.  this is why at the very least you have to soak and blend them BUT i think it may not be enough.  i think consuming the oil extracted from them would be much better.  have you tried using oil extracted from flax or chia ?

I was pre-diabetic and had other problems and I though that eating a salad with flax oil and a couple of spoon fulls of soaked chia seed befor meals would help lower the glycimic load. It did work somewhat at first but overtime the anti nutrients caused me more harm than good.
I think it lowered my vitality some how.

i would LOVE to add raw seafood to my diet.  do you know what is the parasite situation with oysters ?  shrimp ?

You are a newbie, I forget sometimes that not everyone that post here has been fully initiated.

My father was a trained biologist that actualy studied parisites in shell fish; there are numbers of differnt ameombas and such that can live symbioticaly with other life forms without causing any harm. My father thought I was crazy for eatting raw clams and oysters, but as you will learn here, raw foods even if they contain a few ameobas are generaly without any harmfull effects. The food poisoning issues with shell fish are usualy linked to cooked foods.Every now and then someone here will get a reaction to raw shellfish, but it isn't serious and resolves after a couple of days of diarrhea. Once your digestive system becomes fully adapted to raw paleo then you can eat about anything without worry.

I myself along with many others here eat rotten meat as part of a healthy diet, sounds crazy at first but bacteria in rotten meat can be beneficial.

[magnetic]

look guys, your arguments are mostly crap, but thank you for bringing up the whole DHA vs ALA issue.  i heard that fish oil is the best source of W3 before, and bought fish oil capsules for my parents to help with THEIR diet, but for myself i continued relying on blended seeds ( hemp and chia )

i didn't think conversion rate was so low.  now i will either add some fish oil to my own diet or increase my seed-based W3 intake by going for that pure chia oil after all, rather than blending seeds.  

if ALA is just a precursor, it makes me less afraid of overdosing on it.

In order to overdose on dietary omega-3 from the animal kingdom you would have to be force fed nothing but foods high in omega-3 until you were sick.  It is impossible if you are simply eating meat and fish high in omega-3s.  Your fears are of your own making, I'm afraid.

[magnetic]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pHINwjeuF9gC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=DHA+in+ruminant+fat&source=bl&ots=_qTcTbaDfh&sig=cqNlpyarrxI32C10T25q63NydaA&hl=en&ei=uqR7TdeSA5KHhQeuma3zBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=DHA%20in%20ruminant%20fat&f=false

Now I am even more excited about eating my lamb brain, thanks for the informative link.

[magnetic]

ok ok i get it !  fish and animals contain DHA, plants only precursor.

but tell me ( and i know dairy is not paleo, but i like cream cheese ) - which would be a better source of DHA - fatty meats ?  liver ? eggs ? or milk fat ?

since i started posting here a few days ago i have started tossing whole eggs into my smoothies where before the only fat in them was from seeds.

does an omega 3 egg contain DHA ?

The best eggs are pasture raised free range eggs, they can have an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of close to 1:1, I am not sure of the actual omega-3 content, let me see if I can pull something up...

According to this:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/111/2

A medium egg has 4.4 grams of fat, which breaks down further to:

Total Omega-3 fatty acids
32.6
mg
 
Total Omega-6 fatty acids
505
mg

If these were in balance it would be 269mg of each fatty acid, so my guess would be that there is something like 200-250mg of Omega-3 in each  pasture raised free range egg.

It is in the fat though so regarding your question of best source that would have to be a fat, such as suet, lard or cream from an animal raised on pasture.

[magnetic]

the negative effects may take years to show, but mark my words you are putting yourself at risk for major health issues. It may take ten years or more depending on how well you are constituted, but if you continue to consume enough hemp, chia, or whatever other seeds you are blending, you will experience negative health effects.

Take it from a former vegan, vegetables are nutritionally inferior and the body will slowly deteriorate as a result of consuming too much vegetation and seeds/nuts and too little meat and other animal products.  My brothers, though vegetarians and not vegans, also have experienced degeneration.  One has had testicular cancer (at 32 years of age), the other IBS and colitis (at age 26).  We grew up all active and eating what would have been considered a healthy diet at the time, your basic food pyramid and plenty of whole foods.  Cutting out meat, fish and (in my case) dairy has been very destructive, though only 2 of us have come to our senses (one is still punishing himself with vegetarianism).

[proteus]

My father was a trained biologist that actualy studied parisites in shell fish; there are numbers of differnt ameombas and such that can live symbioticaly with other life forms without causing any harm. My father thought I was crazy for eatting raw clams and oysters, but as you will learn here, raw foods even if they contain a few ameobas are generaly without any harmfull effects. The food poisoning issues with shell fish are usualy linked to cooked foods.Every now and then someone here will get a reaction to raw shellfish, but it isn't serious and resolves after a couple of days of diarrhea. Once your digestive system becomes fully adapted to raw paleo then you can eat about anything without worry.

i'm not afraid of bacteria and general parasites like amoebas and stuff.  i am only afraid of parasites that are specifically evolved to live in flesh.  i don't want no worms eating my organs for breakfast.  i trust my immune system to sort out bacteria and crap like that.

[sabertooth]

so you fear the worms, There is no way to guarantee that you can avoid some type of worm infection, but from the experience of an entire community of raw animal food lovers, there is nothing to worry about unless you have full blown Aids or something, Even if you have a severe immune issues, the benefits of raw animal foods out weigh any fears of worms.

[Löwenherz]

Take it from a former vegan, vegetables are nutritionally inferior and the body will slowly deteriorate as a result of consuming too much vegetation and seeds/nuts and too little meat and other animal products.

I wholeheartedly agree.

My own experience proved this. Especially plant fats are really bad. The only exception seems to be coconut fat. Today I'm even very skeptical about avocadoes.

Löwenherz

[magnetic]

I wholeheartedly agree.

My own experience proved this. Especially plant fats are really bad. The only exception seems to be coconut fat. Today I'm even very skeptical about avocadoes.

Löwenherz

Check out:

http://www.backyardnature.net/chiapas/avocado.htm

Wild avocados are very small compared to the stuff you find in stores and in farmer's markets.  I think they are okay for human consumption in very limited amounts, just like honey and other fruits that have been bred to be absurdly large and sweet.

Coconut is mostly saturated fat so it is closer to animal fat in that respect, which is one reason why it may be easier for humans to metabolize.

The following article explains well how MCFAs found in coconut oil can benefit health:

http://www.preventionisbest.com/site/saturatedfat.html

[sabertooth]

now we are back on topic

I eat coconuts as my main plant food. Once I got adapted to its laxitive effect, it can really work wonders. I eat about half a coconut a day now

I also started eating tomatoes again and will eat an avacado about every other day.

I still avoid most fruits because of my past blood sugar and candida issues , but low glycemic fruits and vegetables like avocados,lemons and tomatoes seem to be alright.

sugary fruits give me runny stools on top of making me feel bad

What I am doing now is working out great for me.

[magnetic]

now we are back on topic

I eat coconuts as my main plant food. Once I got adapted to its laxitive effect, it can really work wonders. I eat about half a coconut a day now

I want to include coconut in my diet.  How do you eat it?  Doesn't it have a really hard shell?  I must admit my complete ignorance of coconut, I have never eaten one whole.

[Iguana]

You eat it with the mouth...  

Seriously, just break the shell by knocking it on a concrete block or a big stone. Then get the meat with a rounded knife. But first, make a hole with a sharp knife, so you can extract the water and drink it. There are 3 small spots at about 120° of each other. One is softer, it's the one to pierce. To break the shell, knock it preferably on the middle facing mid-distance between the 2 other spots.  

Don't do like him!

[magnetic]

You eat it with the mouth... 

Seriously, just break the shell by knocking it on a concrete block or a big stone. Then get the meat with a rounded knife. But first, make a hole with a sharp knife, so you can extract the water and drink it. There are 3 small spots at about 120° of each other. One is softer, it's the one to pierce. To break the shell, knock it preferably on the middle facing mid-distance between the 2 other spots. 

Thanks, I watched a Youtube video on eating coconut, the guy used a hammer and screwdriver.  I don't like the idea of having all kinds of tools and paraphernalia to eat, right now I am happy with nothing but a plate, a carving knife and some meat hooks.  I like eating with my hands.

It would be a great summer fruit to throw on the ground or against a rock, sit down and eat.

[proteus]

Coconut is mostly saturated fat

fun fact - 100% chocolate contains more saturated fat than lard ...

[goodsamaritan]

I want to include coconut in my diet.  How do you eat it?  Doesn't it have a really hard shell?  I must admit my complete ignorance of coconut, I have never eaten one whole.

He he, we've got coconuts everyday.
I promise to take a video of me opening and eating coconuts just for you.
Remind me if I forget.

[Rawdietforhealth]

I agree that a lot depends on how you define vegetables and fruits.  I prefer juicing vegetables like celery, spinach, camote (sweet potato) tops, parsley, cilantro, and carrots.  Put I also like to include fruit like zucchini and cucumber in my juices.  I don't eat a lot of vegetables but mostly juice them. The fruits I eat are lots of tomato, cucumber, avocados, and plenty of coconuts (juice and meat).  I also occasionally eat whole fruit like watermelon, banana, oranges, apples, and berries.  There are good vitamins and nutrients that are better sourced from some amount of vegetable juices and fruit but you still need mostly fat and animal protein.

[sabertooth]

To open a coconut
I take the back end of a meat cleaver and hammer out a little clip, then cut a small square where I can pour the water out from(it takes practice but I have gotten good at it). Then I will chip the shell away as much as is needed to expose bite sized flesh pieces to cut out.(it works great for me)

[magnetic]

fun fact - 100% chocolate contains more saturated fat than lard ...

Probably explains some of its health benefits.

[magnetic]

He he, we've got coconuts everyday.
I promise to take a video of me opening and eating coconuts just for you.
Remind me if I forget.

I can't wait.