Veggies over fruits?

[proteus]

I agree that a lot depends on how you define vegetables and fruits.  I prefer juicing vegetables like celery, spinach, camote (sweet potato) tops, parsley, cilantro, and carrots.  Put I also like to include fruit like zucchini and cucumber in my juices.  I don't eat a lot of vegetables but mostly juice them. The fruits I eat are lots of tomato, cucumber, avocados, and plenty of coconuts (juice and meat).  I also occasionally eat whole fruit like watermelon, banana, oranges, apples, and berries.  There are good vitamins and nutrients that are better sourced from some amount of vegetable juices and fruit but you still need mostly fat and animal protein.

AMEN ! ! !

[Löwenherz]

I eat coconuts as my main plant food. Once I got adapted to its laxitive effect, it can really work wonders. I eat about half a coconut a day now

Do you eat the hard white meat of mature coconuts?

I have no problems with self made coconut milk and coconut cream, but if I eat the hard flesh I always get massive digestive discomfort. I think my system can't handle the extreme hard fiber. It always causes bloating and yellowish runny burning stools if I eat more than a little bit.

Löwenherz

[Techydude]

I find fruits, nuts, and etc useless and food sensitive prone/allergy prone and useless except for leaves mainly lettuce, arugala, etc green leaves.

[TylerDurden]

How do Eskimo brains compare in size to those pre-agricultural brains which are said to have decreased in size by 8% to the modern day?

I ask because Esqimaux also have access to a lot of omega-3 specifically, from fish/seal oils etc, as well as having a diet high in raw animal food and just animal food in general.

No idea as there has not been an official comparison between the two. Perhaps check brain volumes in each case in separate studies?

[magnetic]

I ate a coconut.  A whole coconut.  I am so full I don't think I will want to eat the rest of the day.  It was delicious!

[miles]

I ate a coconut.  A whole coconut.  I am so full I don't think I will want to eat the rest of the day.  It was delicious!

Was it the soft fresh kind? I've only ever had the old dry kind.

[PaleoPhil]

How do Eskimo brains compare in size to those pre-agricultural brains which are said to have decreased in size by 8% to the modern day?

I ask because Esqimaux also have access to a lot of omega-3 specifically, from fish/seal oils etc, as well as having a diet high in raw animal food and just animal food in general.

A very similar question was asked and discussed at this thread recently:

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/brain-size-t4725/msg63890/#msg63890

They say our brains have shrunk 10% since adopting an agriculture based diet thousands of years ago. Well does anyone know about Inuit/Eskimo brain size since they have been still eating mainly raw carnivore for much longer then anyone else?

And it links to another thread where it was discussed:
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/brain-size/msg23790/#msg23790

Quote from: TylerDurden on January 03, 2010, 05:54:00 pm
... What is interesting is that the Inuit have the largest skulls,. reportedly, of all humans(though again that isn't necessarily a sign of greater intelligence).

... "The French cranium measurers ran into serious problems in Greenland. They were working from the theory that there was a linear relation between a person's intelligence and the size of his skull. They discovered that the [Inuit] Greenlanders, whom they regarded as a transitional form of ape, had the largest skulls in the world." --Peter Hoeg, Smilla's Sense of Snow, pp. 17-18

It seems to be a popular topic.

[magnetic]

Was it the soft fresh kind? I've only ever had the old dry kind.

The meat was a little hard, I think.  I don't know as I have never had fresh, this is my first time eating whole coconut.

[PaleoPhil]

Wild avocados are very small compared to the stuff you find in stores and in farmer's markets.  I think they are okay for human consumption in very limited amounts, just like honey and other fruits that have been bred to be absurdly large and sweet.

Coconut is mostly saturated fat so it is closer to animal fat in that respect, which is one reason why it may be easier for humans to metabolize.
....

Wild coconuts are also smaller than domestic ones, as with many fruits and veg.

domestic coconut:




wild coconut:




 
According to this source - http://www.coconutstudio.com/Wild%20coconuts.htm - domestic coconuts contain four times as much flesh as wild coconuts and have much less husk.

[magnetic]

I would expect the wild ones to be smaller.  Nice pics.

[PaleoPhil]

Yup, and I would expect wild avocadoes to be smaller too, as with most wild fruits--and thanks for the pic of the wild avocado, I hadn't seen one yet.

Personally, I found that I digest avocadoes much better than coconuts, though not perfectly. I particularly have a problem with young coconut water, coconut oil, Artisana raw coconut butter, coconut cream and green coconut flesh. Dried mature coconut flesh seems to give me the least problems of coconut foods, but I can only seem to handle a relatively small to moderate amount even of that. Small amounts of coconut oil and raw coconut butter give me nausea, and I wasn't able to gradually adapt to them over time, despite expecting that I would be able to based on some of the extremely positive recommendations for these foods here and by the WAPF and elsewhere. I suspect that it's partly because I have difficulty digesting MCTs, whereas I have less problems digesting foods high in monounsaturated fats, such as avocadoes, bone marrow, animal suet (which is also high in long-chain saturated fats), and olive oil. Plus, maybe green coconut flesh and water is harder on my stomach. I still like the flavor of coconut, as I enjoy the taste of coconut sorbet, so it would be nice if some day I could handle coconut fat better, as it would expand my quality-fat options, and I put a lot of effort into making it work, but after a while it appeared to be effort and time poorly invested.

[Rawdietforhealth]

I have no problems eating fresh young green coconut and consume 4-5 a day since they are cheap and plentiful in the Philippines.  I find they really help improve my skin as well.  Coconut water and young soft coconut meat are great saturated fat to consume! http://bit.ly/g7VO7Y

[PaleoPhil]

"opinions are changing on whether saturated fats are the arterial villains they were made out to be ..." http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/04/01/5-tropical-fruits-that-can-change-your-life.aspx

At long last! Still a long way to go, though.

[Rawdietforhealth]

Here are the fruits I eat from time to time.  I eat only small quantities of most fruit except for young green whole coconut which I end up drinking a lot of during the day.  The meat of the young coconut is very soft like jelly and very easy to digest.

[Waldpfad]

"Homo sapiens alone walked out of Africa some 200,000 years, spread quickly throughout Southeast Asia & Europe, "

You do know this is a THEORY, right?
They found a 'white' humanoid (white hair, pale, pink skin) about 4 feet high and around 47 million years old in central Europe. They named it IDA. This fossil is believed to be the first link to european white man...and it blew the entire Out of Africa out of theory. They found IDA in 2008 I think.
Man didn't walk out of Africa, the Supercontinent broke up and giant land masses drifted away, creating all our human races we have  today.
If we all came out of Africa, we'd all have the same blood type. Some of us are RH negative, how do you explain that?
Nowhere else on this planet have Kangoroo fossils been found, nowhere. Why would this animal not be on all other continents, knowing we once had a Supercontinent?
Is it possible that an animal can evolve into something else over millions of years, like animals that are only seen on Galapagos Islands? ABSOLUTELY!
Nobody walked out of Africa and turned white, that's ridiculous.

[miles]

You know Africa is connected to Europe by land, right?

You also know that, in the out of africa theory, homo heidelbergensis split in two - sapiens and neanderthalensis, and Neanderthalensis was already in europe before sapiens got there?

You also know that Australophithecus Afarensis, the precursor to homo in the out of Africa theory, was white?

[RawZi]

http://www.backyardnature.net/chiapas/avocado.htm

Wild avocados are very small compared to the stuff you find in stores and in farmer's markets.  I think they are okay for human consumption in very limited amounts, just like honey and other fruits that have been bred to be absurdly large and sweet.

    I don't know, as I've eaten from avocado trees avos that you never see in stores, very large, smooth, green and the flesh a watery flavor/texture but good, if not at all nutty like the haas.  This was not in Chiapas though.

    Also I've found papayas in the forest bigger than large watermelon, that also taste fine.  The fruit on the trees were all odd sizes, much taller trees.  The papayas in stores are all even size and much smaller.

[cherimoya_kid]

    I don't know, as I've eaten from avocado trees avos that you never see in stores, very large, smooth, green and the flesh a watery flavor/texture but good, if not at all nutty like the haas.  This was not in Chiapas though.

Those are lowland style avocadoes, native to Guatemala, and now cultivated in Florida.  The blacker kind with rough skin are descended from highland avocadoes, that come from colder areas, and are grown heavily in southern California.

[balancing-act]

Yup, I got some right now. I made guacamole with fresh jalapeno peppers, and it hit the spot. But I think the key with avocados if you eat them at all is moderation.

[Löwenherz]

I particularly have a problem with young coconut water, coconut oil, Artisana raw coconut butter, coconut cream and green coconut flesh. Dried mature coconut flesh seems to give me the least problems of coconut foods, but I can only seem to handle a relatively small to moderate amount even of that. Small amounts of coconut oil and raw coconut butter give me nausea, and I wasn't able to gradually adapt to them over time, despite expecting that I would be able to based on some of the extremely positive recommendations for these foods here and by the WAPF and elsewhere.

My own experiences are very similar to yours. Nevertheless I'm a huge fan of raw coconut fat. Let me explain:

First of all I have to mention that my body needed a long time to adapt to this fat. I remember that I already felt attracted to the taste and smell of all these "exotic" coconut products during christmas time in my childhood. But 30-40 years later, when I first tried pure fresh raw coconut cream as recommended by Aajonus I vomited like never before! Raw coconut fat is very saturated and feels very powerful and cleansing. I needed several weeks to get used to it. Today I can eat as much as I want without nausea or stomach trouble.

Raw fresh coconut milk and raw fresh coconut cream from unspoiled (!) coconuts work very well for me. ALL other coconut products cause problems. I say unspoiled because over 90% of all mature coconuts we can get in Germany are completely spoiled, unfortunately, and people don't know it. The water in the nut gives easily information on the quality of the meat.

Coconut water from young coconuts (in higher amounts) gives me diarrhea and candida like symptoms. Coconut oil makes me feel nauseated. It tastes terrible. I think Aajonus is right that coconut oil is NOT raw. And it's stripped of all the other nutrients. That makes me even more skeptical. Somehow the natural nutrient balance is destroyed. Raw coconut milk is phantastic, coconut oil and canned coconut milk are disastrous for me. What a big difference. And funnily enough many people in the streets of Sri Lanka exactly reflected my own feelings: "coconut oil not good, coconut oil not good!" and "coconut milk very very healthy!". In their traditional diet they used self-made coconut milk every day. Today you can see huge plastic bottles of "healthy vegetable oil" everywhere.

I can only eat small amounts of the hard white meat from mature coconuts. Otherwise I get MASSIVE trouble in my gi tract, especially in the colon. The harsh fiber of the meat feels very harmful. That must be the reason that nobody in the tropics eats hard coconut meat in significant amounts. The very soft jelly meat from very young unripe coconuts is OK for me, but I don't eat it either because it's very low in fat und therefore not very nutritious.

Artisana coconut butter contains the fiber of the mature coconuts. Although it's very finely ground, it irritates my colon. Furthermore it gives me nausea. I'm surprised that it works so well for Sabertooth.

So, I really love coconuts, but I avoid all coconut products. My body is a rebellish consumer..

Greetings from Florida

Löwenherz

[Haai]

I say unspoiled because over 90% of all mature coconuts we can get in Germany are completely spoiled, unfortunately, and people don't know it.

You mean they don't know it until they crack it open and look inside? Or do you mean it's sometimes difficult to tell even once you've cracked it open and can see inside it?

You are definitely right that a large % are already spoiled in the shop. I often get coconuts though where it's difficult to tell. Sometimes the coconut water tastes bad, but the meat looks and tastes fine. Or sometimes a small part of the coconut looks discoloured ie spoiled, but the rest looks and tastes fine.

I totally agree btw that homemade fresh raw coconut milk and cream is great stuff. Far superior to coconut oil.

[PaleoPhil]

Raw coconut fat is very saturated and feels very powerful and cleansing. I needed several weeks to get used to it.

I have no noticeable problems at all with saturated raw animal fats. As a matter of fact, raw grassfed suet seems to make me feel better than any other food I've tried so far. I suspect that the issue with coconut fat for me may be the medium chain triglycerides, as they are well known to be nauseating in many people.

I tried EVCO and later Artisana coconut butter, both highly touted by some here and by other rawists and WAPF dieters, for months and they nauseated me more at the end of the experiments than at the beginning. Now I have difficulty eating even mature coconut meat and find the taste unpleasant (I can now detect the taste of the oil in it), whereas in the past I enjoyed small amounts of it. It seems like my experiment with trying to gradually adapt over months to coconut fat actually resulted in developing more of a revulsion for even small amounts of coconut fat. The WAPF and others say that people that medium chain triglycerides nauseate should gradually adapt to coconut fat, and I followed the instructions but they unfortunately didn't work for me. I was hoping it would work because it would add another source of fat for me and I do love the taste of the non-oily part of coconut (for example, coconut sorbet is my favorite sorbet or ice cream type dessert and I can eat it without any nausea, though the added sugar probably helps with that--hmm, that gives me an idea to maybe some day try mixing in raw fermented honey with raw fresh coconut milk or cream).

Raw fresh coconut milk and raw fresh coconut cream from unspoiled (!) coconuts work very well for me.

What about raw fresh coconut water from mature nonspoiled coconuts? How do you make your coconut milk and cream?

ALL other coconut products cause problems. I say unspoiled because over 90% of all mature coconuts we can get in Germany are completely spoiled, unfortunately, and people don't know it. The water in the nut gives easily information on the quality of the meat.

How do you tell which coconut is spoiled? Are you able to tell before you buy them? If you can tell only from the water then are you saying that you have to buy ten coconuts and discard nine to get one good one?

The harsh fiber of the meat feels very harmful. That must be the reason that nobody in the tropics eats hard coconut meat in significant amounts. The very soft jelly meat from very young unripe coconuts is OK for me, but I don't eat it either because it's very low in fat und therefore not very nutritious.

The soft jelly meat is also nauseating for me.

Artisana coconut butter contains the fiber of the mature coconuts. Although it's very finely ground, it irritates my colon. Furthermore it gives me nausea. I'm surprised that it works so well for Sabertooth.

It also tastes dry and horrendous to me. After the praise of it as delicious "ambrosia" I was shocked to discover how disgusting it was to me. Perhaps it's like durian, with a wide range of tastes for different people?

Thanks for sharing your experience, Lowenherz.

[Löwenherz]

How do you tell which coconut is spoiled? Are you able to tell before you buy them? If you can tell only from the water then are you saying that you have to buy ten coconuts and discard nine to get one good one?

In my opinion the water of a mature coconut must taste fresh and very sweet. If the water is perfect, you can be sure that the meat is equally good. If the water is very sweet the fat content of the meat is usually the highest.

The water becomes sourer and sourer. And in the last stage it becomes super stinky. This 100% rotten stage seems to be standard for the german food market. hehe. Germans are always happy if their food is CHEAP, that's most important. Cars deserve much more dedication and money than food!  We have the lowest food prices of all industrial countries in the world. Even Walmart here in the USA is MUCH more expensive. What people usually do: They just throw away the stinky water, eat small amounts of the meat and don't think about it. And they usually don't know how fresh ripe coconut meat should taste. It's still considered a super exotic food.

The problem is mold! The sourer the water the more moldy spots you can find IN the meat. But they are not very easy visible. If I eat such moldy meat I get urticaria and other problems.

It's not possible to see if a coconut is good without tasting the water. But at least I don't have to open them if the water is not ok. It's no joke, I really have to buy 10 coconuts to get one good one. Therefore I use frozen coconut meat from Asia shops as an alternative. Some few importers offer high quality.

I put mature coconut meat in a strong juicer to make coconut cream. Coconut milk is usually made with a blender and sieve.

It's interesting that your body completely rejects all forms of coconut fat. But if I remember correctly, you are not the only one in the paleo sphere.

I'm still not sure if coconut fat can replace animal fats from land mammals. If I had to choose between bison fat and coconut fat, I would prefer bison fat. Beef suet is most often inedible. It depends on the breed. US Angus and Hereford offer the best fats, imo. Whereas suet from scottish Galloways is most often super disgusting and/or inedible, for example.

Löwenherz

[PaleoPhil]

In my opinion the water of a mature coconut must taste fresh and very sweet. If the water is perfect, you can be sure that the meat is equally good. If the water is very sweet the fat content of the meat is usually the highest.

So one can't tell until after buying the coconut, with 9/10 coconuts being inadequate? Doesn't sound like coconuts would be a viable food for people on limited budgets in areas where coconuts aren't cheap or free.

Cars deserve much more dedication and money than food!  We have the lowest food prices of all industrial countries in the world.

I agree with your priorities--food over cars--but I'm not going to buy a food that I throw out nine tenths of.

The problem is mold! The sourer the water the more moldy spots you can find IN the meat. But they are not very easy visible. If I eat such moldy meat I get urticaria and other problems.

I don't have a problem with lemon juice and water, so I don't think sourness is the problem for me. Again, the MCT's seem to be the problem for me, as they reportedly are for many people. Why no one seems to accept this is inexplicable to me.

It's not possible to see if a coconut is good without tasting the water. But at least I don't have to open them if the water is not ok. It's no joke, I really have to buy 10 coconuts to get one good one.

Thank you for your honesty on this subject. So refreshing to encounter it.

It's interesting that your body completely rejects all forms of coconut fat. But if I remember correctly, you are not the only one in the paleo sphere.

Yes, others here have reported it and I have read that it is not an uncommon phenomenon.

I'm still not sure if coconut fat can replace animal fats from land mammals. If I had to choose between bison fat and coconut fat, I would prefer bison fat. Beef suet is most often inedible.

Inedible? Not to me. It doesn't taste marvelous, though not bad when good quality--especially when air-dried first and thoroughly chewed--but the benefits and feeling of well being it produces for me make it very worthwhile for me. The well-being it produces is better than any drug or alcohol.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Lowenherz.

[sabertooth]

The only place I have found that sells whole coconut that doesn't taste rotted is the whole foods and they cost about 2 dollars a piece.

It's much more economical and delicious for me to just buy my two jars of coconut butter each week. It's 10 dollars a jar at the co-op, and I never have to worry about it being rancid. I spend close to 1200 dollars each year on coconut butter, I am hopelessly addicted to the MCTs.