Substituting animal fats for olive oil

[luis]

Since I live In Portugal, south of Europe, I have poor access to raw butter and several other animal fats. However, olive oil is widelly available. Will I experience the same benefits from olive oil as from animal fats?

[ForTheHunt]

  no

[TylerDurden]

Look around and see if you can get hold of raw grassfed suet or marrow. You'd be surprised as to how many farmers simply throw away their suet and marrow because there is no demand for it. I just recently got 4kg of raw suet for free because I'm doing them a favour as otherwise they would have had to pay to have it disposed of.

[goodsamaritan]

Some people say olive oil dries the skin while animal fat moisturizes the skin.

[RawZi]

    Not only drying for me, but burns my throat and makes me feel too cold.

[Arthas_]

It burns my throat too. Just like coconut oil, olive oil is high in salicylates. Then it seems the PUFA content is around 10-12% and most of it is omega 6, so it should not be a staple fat.

[needs_and_wants]

Is the burning of the throat not a sign of good quality oil no? ie highest antioxidant content? And is it not mostly omega 9 rather than 6?

[TylerDurden]

It burns my throat too. Just like coconut oil, olive oil is high in salicylates. Then it seems the PUFA content is around 10-12% and most of it is omega 6, so it should not be a staple fat.

  Given that coconut oil is high in saturated fats and low/nonexistent re PUFAs, it should be clear that the anti-PUFA hysteria is nonsense, and that there are other issues involved.


As for the question re burning of the throat, that means absolutely nothing. There are countless versions of cod liver oil which don't burn the throat and which are all heavily pasteurised/deodorised and are  as a result, nutritionally useless; whereas raw cod liver oil from Green Pastures does indeed burn the throat but is practically the only one which is genuinely raw.

[ForTheHunt]

  Given that coconut oil is high in saturated fats and low/nonexistent re PUFAs, it should be clear that the anti-PUFA hysteria is nonsense, and that there are other issues involved.


As for the question re burning of the throat, that means absolutely nothing. There are countless versions of cod liver oil which don't burn the throat and which are all heavily pasteurised/deodorised and are  as a result, nutritionally useless; whereas raw cod liver oil from Green Pastures does indeed burn the throat but is practically the only one which is genuinely raw.

U sure about that? I thought that the only way to get oil out of the liver was to melt it, thus cooking it.

[TylerDurden]

U sure about that? I thought that the only way to get oil out of the liver was to melt it, thus cooking it.

No, Green Pastures is completely raw. They must have their own process. Perhaps fermenting the livers makes it easier to extract the oil?

[Arthas_]

Is the burning of the throat not a sign of good quality oil no? ie highest antioxidant content? And is it not mostly omega 9 rather than 6?

Most of it is MUFA, but I was refering to the PUFA portion of it. So about 10% is PUFA, of which most, if not all, is omega 6.

[Arthas_]

  Given that coconut oil is high in saturated fats and low/nonexistent re PUFAs, it should be clear that the anti-PUFA hysteria is nonsense, and that there are other issues involved.


As for the question re burning of the throat, that means absolutely nothing. There are countless versions of cod liver oil which don't burn the throat and which are all heavily pasteurised/deodorised and are  as a result, nutritionally useless; whereas raw cod liver oil from Green Pastures does indeed burn the throat but is practically the only one which is genuinely raw.

Your right, the PUFA content of coconut oil is very low. But then how on earth does it prove or disprove or even relate to the PUFA issue? In my view olive oil has two problems re PUFAs. First there's too much(not that much compared to sunflower and others, but high nonetheless), and second, the w3/w6 ratio is awful. The coconut oil w3/w3 ratio is bad too, but then the total PUFA is low (which is not the case of olive oil), so I'm not concerned about it. Then other concern re olive oil is the imbalance of mono and saturated fatty acids. I guess there are many reasons to stick to animal fats.

About the burning thing I'm not sure if it's good or not, but I guess it's important to be noticed, since animal fats in general don't have this effect.

[Josh]

I found it impossible to eat olive oil for a long time, or combine with raw meat.

I think standard butter is the best of the worst. But try and get suet like tyler said.

[luis]

What about pig lard? It has been processed and heated before, but would you consider it a good alternative ?

[Josh]

I actually thought of that this morning! It is mostly monounsaturated and saturated fat so not too bad...if you ate mostly lamb then topped up with a little bit. I might have to do that in Korea.

However if you can locate suet you can probably get a large amount and put it in the freezer...might be easier than you think.

[goodsamaritan]

I found it impossible to eat olive oil for a long time, or combine with raw meat.

I absolutely abhor eating olive oil.  It reminds me of the 20+ liver flushes I used to do when I was sick.

What about pig lard? It has been processed and heated before, but would you consider it a good alternative ?

Nope.

[RawZi]

Then other concern re olive oil is the imbalance of mono and saturated fatty acids. I guess there are many reasons to stick to animal fats.

About the burning thing I'm not sure if it's good or not, but I guess it's important to be noticed, since animal fats in general don't have this effect.

    My throat has always been sensitive, so since I don't like it burning; I consider it a bad thing.  I wouldn't care if someone would prove to me it has more antioxidants, afaic.  It feels unhealthy to my body.  I don't think everyone needs a ton of antioxidants.  Some do, some don't.

[TylerDurden]

Your right, the PUFA content of coconut oil is very low. But then how on earth does it prove or disprove or even relate to the PUFA issue? In my view olive oil has two problems re PUFAs. First there's too much(not that much compared to sunflower and others, but high nonetheless), and second, the w3/w6 ratio is awful. The coconut oil w3/w3 ratio is bad too, but then the total PUFA is low (which is not the case of olive oil), so I'm not concerned about it. Then other concern re olive oil is the imbalance of mono and saturated fatty acids. I guess there are many reasons to stick to animal fats.

About the burning thing I'm not sure if it's good or not, but I guess it's important to be noticed, since animal fats in general don't have this effect.

  The point is that coconut oil is a rather allergenic substance as many RPDers have found out.So, the issue of PUFAs is rather unimportant by comparison. More to the point, the eskimoes did reasonably well on a diet higher in PUFAs than most other diets, so there can't be much truth in the anti-PUFA claims. There is a case in that PUFAs are more easily damaged by heat than other types of fatty acids, but that is, of course, irrelevant to a rawpalaeodieter.

[luis]

I found it impossible to eat olive oil for a long time, or combine with raw meat.

I think standard butter is the best of the worst. But try and get suet like tyler said.

What problems did you have with olive Oil?

[Josh]

Burns, gives me a bad stomach if eaten with raw meat. When I ate it for weeks at a time I started to get sick at the thought of it.

[cliff]

the w3/w6 ratio is awful.

Arthas please tell us what you think the correct ratio is and why? 

Olive oil has a 12/1 omega 6/3 ratio which is a little off balance but not by much, omega 6/3 occur at a 10/1 ratio in the body. 

Also why is eating food with over 3% pufa bad?

[Arthas_]

Arthas please tell us what you think the correct ratio is and why? 

Olive oil has a 12/1 omega 6/3 ratio which is a little off balance but not by much, omega 6/3 occur at a 10/1 ratio in the body. 

Also why is eating food with over 3% pufa bad?

Well in my opinion a good w3/w6 balance is 1-4 w6 to 1 w3. 12/1 is not that awful, but then it's not ideal as well. If you were to consume little of it, and also get animal fats with a better ratio, it would be perfectly fine. What Luis(the original poster) was asking though, is to use olive oil as the main source of fat, which makes it all different. About the 3% pufa, I guess it's not all that important, if the final ratio is fine.  I'm not saying it's the ultimate truth, it's rather my opinion based on my experiments and anecdotal evidence. Then there are a whole lots of studies that find too much omega 6 is inflammatory. About the body ratio of w6 to w3, it's interesting, where did you get this piece of information form? I'm not really familiar with it. Though when it comes to human milk, its w3/6 ratio is out of balance in many lactating mothers due to their diet. So It could be that the body ratio of 10 to 1 is rather an imbalance and that in Paleo times the figures were different. I guess it's common sense also that the absorption rate is different for different fatty acids. I remember reading some studies where it's claimed that PUFAs are prone to accumulate in human tissues when consumed in high quantities, while SFA and MUFA are not. What are your thoughts.

[cliff]

We need omega 3s but most people(including SAD population) are omega 6 deficient. The omega 6 in processed foods is ruined. We need raw omega 6.


This is from a PDF called Optimum PEO Ratio found on brianpeskin.com, it lists all the sources. The ratio is 7 to 1 because our muscles are 6.5 to 1 as you can see from the chart, and our muscles make up half of our weight.

Most nuts and seeds are naturally high in omega 6. In an interview with wild food expert Arthur Haines he states that wild food have a more 1:1 ratio of omega 3 to 6, but I know he is not referring to nuts and seeds.

In a lecture by Rick Dina he says we shouldn't go over 1:4 because the enzymes work on the same EFA(parent omega 3[ALA] & 6[LA]) and if we go over 1 parts ALA to 4 parts LA we cannot make the EFA derivatives like DHA and EPA. I think this is also incorrect because this is based on the theory that omega 3s should convert to as much derivatives as we think we need, making this assumption studies say we are inefficient at converting ALA to derivatives like EPA and DHA.

[MrBBQ]

PUFA = free radicals, advanced lipid peroxidation end products, greater potential for glycation, anti-mitochondria etc.

The higher the PUFA intake, the higher their concentration in human cell membranes (higher potential for sun damage to skin etc.).

Why would humans need these liquid fats like cold water marine life or animals entering hibernation? Humans do not require these liquid fats in more than trace amounts...

10% PUFA in olive oil is a high concentration - definitely already rancid if the oil is in a clear bottle.

Maybe it's not such a disadvantage if you're surviving in freezing temperatures like the eskimos (n-3s and n-6s are still fluid at those sub-freezing temperatures).

Stick to ruminant fats, coconut oil (if you can tolerate it) and maybe macadamia nut oil...Avoid any fish oils, including the F-CLO and don't make a habit of eating the oily fish like salmon, tuna etc. These oils are required in high concentrations in fish to allow them to live/move in very cold temperatures (saturated fats become solid at low temperatures, so they could not be used by fish in cold waters for building their bodies).

n-3 fats are even more prone to lipid peroxidation than n-6 fats...Some people propose that "so-called EFA" deficiency is a very good thing...

[KD]

not, that I'm that schooled in PUFA and fish, but can't your argument be used against other cold-temp animals, even mammals like whales, or seal etc..? I'm assuming the type of fat is different, but I don't see why in it of itself this would make something unhealthy.