Re: Substituting animal fats for olive oil

[William]

rendered rubbish like tallow may well have great omega3:6 ratio if grassfed, but still be effectively harmful due to its processing.

Time to prove it. A chemical analysis would do.

[djr_81]

I don't understand why there would be any need for fasting/caloric restriction when eating raw wild game. Raw wild game is healthier than grassfed etc.

I believe he was referring to the conundrum of a diet based on wild game (lower in fat) with low/no carbs. You need an energy source somewhere and if you're not using carbs you need adequate fat & vice versa.

[cherimoya_kid]

Time to prove it. A chemical analysis would do.

My patience is nearing its end.  Stop...trolling...for...tallow. 

The only fair test would be one similar to Dr Pottenger's, except that you would have two groups of animals, one getting raw fat, the other one rendered fat, and both getting raw meat.

A chemical analysis, indeed.  I'm half-convinced to ban you for such a stupid statement.

[RawZi]

the tallow in raw fat, then we would all like to see it.
Anything credible.

BTW rendered fat is three different and separate things, only one of which is edible.

    There's no tallow in raw fat.  Suet is rendered to make tallow.  Tallow is a heated product.  There is no heated product in suet.  Suet is raw.

   

[TylerDurden]

I've already previously  shown studies indicating that tallow contains harmful oxidised cholesterol. You just don't dare reading them as they contradict your ridiculous notions.

[TylerDurden]

For those who haven't been following the past info re pemmican, I should add that there is a little research on the effects of rendered fats such as pemmican(most studies are on tallow),  which are highly negative, focusing on atherosclerosis-inducing oxidised cholesterol :-

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00070a016

http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S0716-97602003000300002&script=sci_arttext

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/atvbaha;20/3/708

 Some other studies focus on the negative effects on health of feeding rendered fat to animals as that causes higher rates of BSE/mad cow disease:-

http://www.med.uwo.ca/EcoSystemHealth/education/casestudies/bseenviro.htm

Plus, of course, there is plentiful anecdotal evidence from RPDers who've tried pemmican/tallow and found it to be  unhealthy, much as claimed in the above studies.

[TylerDurden]

Topic split and  moved to hot topics because William has yet again tried to derail the thread and mention b*llsh*t about pemmican again.*sigh*

[TylerDurden]

I believe he was referring to the conundrum of a diet based on wild game (lower in fat) with low/no carbs. You need an energy source somewhere and if you're not using carbs you need adequate fat & vice versa.

  Well, as far as I checked, rabbit-starvation is only an issue if one is eating really lean meats and those come mostly from very small animals(why "rabbit" is referenced). I think that if one is eating the whole animal(even if shared among the tribe) that it's impossible to avoid eating some fat somewhere even on a lean wild game animal.

Of course, it is noteworthy that the very few hunter-gatherers who did eat raw zero carb(well 96-99% animal foods actually) also were the very few with access to huge numbers of very fatty meats such as whale blubber/seal blubber etc. Other hunter-gatherers generally did fine with minor to major amounts of carbs along with the wild game.

[MrBBQ]

I refer to myself here: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/substituting-animal-fats-for-olive-oil/msg35070/?topicseen#msg35070

Don't we have an excess protein to get enough fat scenario with smaller wild game meats though - that is, in the context of excess protein theory?

So raw zero carb is a slight myth in terms of calories, except for extreme ecosystems?
And the low/balanced PUFA is also a myth?

So are we talking about brains and marrow, given that most cuts of game are lean? Nutrition data says venison is ~7g fat/100g, wild boar ~3g fat/100g and rabbit ~2g fat/100g...This is obviously muscle meats, excluding offal/organs.

This really leaves me wondering about paleo man as fat/sugar burner...So is all this beef/lamb suet really paleo, or should we be looking to secure a lot more game as the objective of paleo - I tend to think more about the guts and grease article again, because it still seems like we're confused about paleo...

[TylerDurden]

The idea behind rabbit-starvation is that anything the size of a rabbit or smaller will never have enough fat so it's a bad idea as a staple, unless there's plenty of other carbs or fats available. Most things larger than a rabbit are fine as all HGs ate the entire animal carcass and there is fat in the eyeballs, brains, marrow, back-fat(on older animals), kidney-fat, enough to not worry re rabbit-starvation issues. I wish I could be more genuinely palaeo and eat things like eyes and brains and so on but can't get hold of them. Well, I can get fish eyeballs but they are not to my taste, unfortunately.

And, yes, the whole PUFA issue is a myth. There's no need to micromanage one's diet when one has access to a more natural, raw diet of grassfed/wild meats and (organic/wild) plants as they have all the nutrients in the right proportion/balance if eaten whole and unprocessed. As soon as one starts processing, though, re making coconut oil or vegetable oils, then problems inevitably start.