Was off raw dairy now back on again!

[jfgrout3]

Hi everyone. I just got back on raw dairy, milk, butter, cream, and kefir again after being off for about a year. Doin pretty good so far, about 3 weeks. I have Ulcerative Colitis and have had difficulty maintaining my weight and strength, even after being full raw Paleo for about 5 years now. I can't handle veggie juice or vegetables at all, as the juice runs right through my bowels. More than a piece or two of fruit everyday has been causing me to feel manic, depressed, and gum sensitivity. And recently, more than a 1/2 pound or so a day of even the fattiest meats, like tongue or ribeye have made me feel like I was getting protein poisoning or something, eg. waking up tired feeling hungover and urine smelling like rancid tongue (no joke) in the morning, plus I was still underweight. The only food that consistently gave me energy was raw bone marrow, which, I was consuming about 1/4 to 1/2 pound of a day (800-1600 calories), but I lose the taste and have to force it down if I try to eat more. And obviously any cooked food, grain, etc. doesn't digest well at all, which brought me to this nutty (just kidding) way of eating to begin with. And raw suet, back fat, etc. to me is almost completely unappetizing though I've tried it time and time again. So, I went back to raw dairy and raw honey 3 weeks ago with great results so far. I've been making and consuming kefir in greater amounts than before and have been pounding pounds of raw butter. I stopped the dairy previously because of inflammatory intestinal flare-ups and bleeding in my stool (which all foods seem to be causing me on some level). This time, I'm more aware of allowing the lactase producing bacteria to proliferate before consumption, in the hopes of getting more of that type of bacteria in my system. I have gained nearly 10 pounds of healthy muscle weight and feel more energetic and aware and calm. I'm also more aware this time around of getting plenty of magnesium in my diet from oysters and to drink less actual milk compared to butter/cream to possibly help balance calcium/magnesium levels. So far so good. I live in Maui and since Organic Pastures stopped delivering to Hawaii, I had a friend in San Fran Fed Ex me a box of raw dairy products which was like 300 dollars for overnight shipping! Surprisingly, there's little raw dairy available in Maui, even though with the amount of cows and goats and lush land, we could be fully sustainable here. So, this is my new goal now. To start a Co-op in Maui for raw dairy, meat, and produce.  I'm gonna start talking with farmers here in Maui about getting raw dairy. I'm in LA right now and went to Rawesome (raw food, Primal diet Co-op) today in Venice, which is amazing. I used to live in Venice Beach, so I frequented this place regularly before my move to Maui. I made some good contacts on my journey to starting a Co-op. Any thoughts or comments from anyone?

[goodsamaritan]

Seems you needed the probiotics from the kefir. 

I didn't see you posting about consuming organs.

Thanks for sharing your story!

[RawZi]

    I put on healthy muscle weight that was otherwise impossible for me.  I did it with OP butter and culturing their cream.  I wish you luck in getting your co-op going.  Do oysters have a lot of magnesium?  I have no idea, just that they are great food.  How are the oysters in Maui?  Could you get your own milk animals?

[rawlion]

BUTTER is superior to any other animal fat on this planet. As opposed to cultured or fresh raw dairy it is hypoallergenic and contains virtually no casein, lactose or opioids.

If you ate nothing but butter and tender meat (sirloin for example) or soft offal (kidneys, liver), chewing well, you would have never had to go to the toilet as it absorbs completely. It works just like pemmican, but the advantage of butter is that you don't have to render/heat it.

[TylerDurden]

BUTTER is superior to any other animal fat on this planet. As opposed to cultured or fresh raw dairy it is hypoallergenic and contains virtually no casein, lactose or opioids.

If you ate nothing but butter and tender meat (sirloin for example) or soft offal (kidneys, liver), chewing well, you would have never had to go to the toilet as it absorbs completely. It works just like pemmican, but the advantage of butter is that you don't have to render/heat it.

Butter is indeed quite allergenic as it contains small traces of casein, lactose and opioids, so those allergic to raw dairy in any way will have slight to major effects from it. And raw marrow is a superior raw fat, anyway, as is raw brains, raw tongue, raw suet etc.

[jfgrout3]

Thanks Rawzi. I've read from various websites that 6 medium oysters supply the daily recommendation for all macrominerals, including magnesium. There are no oysters in Maui, except the ones imported from the mainland and Canada. We do have opihi though, which is a type of mollusk/limpet. I've been reading more about helminthic therapy and want to give it a try. I'm going to go walk barefoot in some cow fields where there is fresh cow feces this week. I may even eat a little fresh cow feces to inoculate myself with the hookworms/whipworms. I've read many positive things about this and the theory behind it makes sense to me. It keeps getting weirder and weirder that's for sure.

[RawZi]

Thanks Rawzi. ... We do have opihi though, which is a type of mollusk/limpet. I've been reading more about helminthic therapy and want to give it a try. I'm going to go walk barefoot in some cow fields where there is fresh cow feces this week. I may even eat a little fresh cow feces to inoculate myself with the hookworms/whipworms. I've read many positive things about this and the theory behind it makes sense to me. It keeps getting weirder and weirder that's for sure.

    You're welcome.  I'll have to look up limpets.  I've done that walking too.  Over twenty years ago I walked in the cow fields on the property where I lived.  At first when I walked through the knee to thigh deep mud I tucked my pants into my boots.  Then my friends trudged barefoot through it, so I started doing the same.  It felt healthy.  Not tucking pant legs into boot, wearing shorts was helpful.  That mud was impossible to get off all the stains from.  I felt as healthier than I ever did.  I think walking through that mud was part of it.  I wasn't afraid to touch the cow pies, although I had never heard of helminthic therapy.  I didn't eat any.  I guess I would if I needed to.  I think I did drink some water from a basin the cows drank from.  The cows of course don't wash before they drink, they just stick their faces in the basin.

[RawZi]

... It works just like pemmican, but the advantage of butter is that you don't have to render/heat it.

    I prefer raw cultured grassfed butter over grassfed pemmican too.  True, I think I could live well for months on the butter alone.

And raw marrow is a superior raw fat, anyway, as is raw brains, raw tongue, raw suet etc.

    I'm not sure about suet.  I have a hard time eating that.  I gave away a large portion to another RAFer and he enjoyed it.  The only way I can eat it is grating it up fine and lightly coating my meat with it.  Even then, I don't look forward to eating it at all.  I kind of like that marrow doesn't smell cheesy.  I don't like cheese smell.  I wish I could get brains.  Tongue is nice.  It's a little gritty on top.  I think cultured grassfed raw butter digests real well, but it can trigger the bowels.  I don't mind that.  It doesn't seem to do me any harm.  I can eat it cool too.  I have to wait for the marrow to warm up to room temperature taste decent and get it out of the bones easily.

[rawlion]

Butter is indeed quite allergenic as it contains small traces of casein, lactose and opioids, so those allergic to raw dairy in any way will have slight to major effects from it. And raw marrow is a superior raw fat, anyway, as is raw brains, raw tongue, raw suet etc.

Before IF, when I was healthy, I was eating lots of raw bone marrow. And I agree with you, it is absolutely delicious, especially the creamy type. I also ate suet though never liked it. But hen my health went downhill and I could no longer digest either suet or marrow. And now, when I am extremely sick, the only fat that I can handle is butter. Even the dead can digest butter...

[TylerDurden]

Even the dead can digest butter...

Certainly not me, and any other seriously  dairy-intolerant peoples out there.

[RawZi]

... my health went downhill and I could no longer digest either suet or marrow. And now, when I am extremely sick, the only fat that I can handle is butter.

    You make your own butter, right?  Do you get to see the cows the cream comes from?  Do you know what breeds of cow or other animal? 

    Guernsey cows have A2 amino acids in their milk, as do sheep and other animals.  I've been getting jersey.  It's more A1, but at least not 100% A1 like most of the Western cows.  From what I understand, all the cows in some places like in Africa are A2.  I've had A1 raw cultured cream and A1 raw cultured butter too though.  I find them very easy to digest (not the pasteurized though), but then I don't fill myself on too many other things.

[RawZi]

... I'm in LA right now and went to Rawesome (raw food, Primal diet Co-op) today in Venice, which is amazing. I used to live in Venice Beach, so I frequented this place regularly before my move ...

    Did you eat much of the chicken, eggs and goat milk?  I'm disturbed what I heard about Sharon Palmer raising her chickens and goats with soy and buying commercial non organic eggs for sale at Rawesome.  At least James had Amish farmer contracts too all along.  Not from Rawesome, but it was in LA I first tried raw chicken.  It too was supposed to be free range and everything, but all I could smell was soy and corn coming out my pores for days after.

[raw-al]

I've been reading more about helminthic therapy and want to give it a try. I'm going to go walk barefoot in some cow fields where there is fresh cow feces this week. I may even eat a little fresh cow feces to inoculate myself with the hookworms/whipworms. I've read many positive things about this and the theory behind it makes sense to me. It keeps getting weirder and weirder that's for sure.

Aajonus V.mentions the therapy you mention about eating faeces. I tried a bit of wild bird faeces once out of curiosity. Didn't notice anything, but I am fortunate in not having any health issues prior to starting the raw diet, indeed I had none from 23 years of being a vegetarian despite some of the negative stuff people say about vegetarians on this site.

I know that Ayurvedic Vaidyas will sometimes suggest consuming fresh cow urine (from midstream) to people with certain issues.

A friend of mine got this prescription from a visiting Vaidya. He had a chuckle because he was trying to picture himself getting up at oh-dark-thirty, driving an hour out of Montreal to a dairy farm and then chasing after a cow with a coffe cup waiting for it to piss and then judging when it was midstream and then drinking it... every morning and then driving back in town to go to work... LOL.

Of course urine therapy (drinking your own) is a well known modality. There are books/websites on that. My GF and I tried it for about a year or two, but stopped as it was causing issues with excessive Pitt. I mentioned it to an Ayurvedic physician from India who was the head of a school there and he said that while it can be efficacious in certain chronic illnesses, it wasn't a great idea long term as it runs testosterone back through again which in my case (Pitt predominance) was not a good idea.

I started a thread
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/shit-the-final-frontier/
to see if anyone had tried the faeces therapy.

[jfgrout3]

It's been many months since I started this thread. I'm here to report excellent results. My Ulcerative Colitis seems to be completely cured. My bowel movements are perfect, meaning they are clean, large, no wipe residue, and no blood. This is a major shift from how they were a few months ago. All symptoms of the disease have ceased. I attribute this healing to an all raw milk diet, with the minor inclusion of a few raw egg yolks a week, a few tablespoons of bee pollen, and a young, green coconut water daily. The healing began when I went on an all kefir diet for 2 weeks to eliminate the pathogenic bacteria in my gut and to facilitate a bowel cleansing. After this, I began consuming large quantites of fresh raw cow milk and cream, as much as I wanted, usually a half gallon of whole milk and a quart of heavy cream daily or sometimes just a gallon of whole milk. After about 3 weeks, the bleeding in my bowel movements ceased and at about the 4th week the regular healthy bowel movements began. I pooped way more than I was consuming, meaning (I believe) that the bacteria was forming feces from old dead waste in my system plus the fresh food. I've tried raw milk in the past, with mixed results, but the initial innoculation of the kefir made all the difference for me. I've put on nearly 20 pounds of healthy weight and feel as though I'll gain some more over the next few months with my heavy eating and new weightlifting routine. I am 6 feet tall, 30 years old, and weigh 180 pounds and was previously 160 pounds 3 months ago. Now that I'm healthy, my goal is 190 pounds and 10-12% body fat. I welcome questions and comments. I've been on different versions of raw diets for 10 years now and have eaten raw meat for 6 years, but ran into problems with these diets over time. I now consume little meat, maybe a pound a week, and don't really crave it at all anymore since the milk diet. I understand many here have a sensitivity to raw dairy, but I urge you to try kefir first as it aids greatly in digestion and helps set up the gut to receive fresh milk, it seems.

[Ioanna]

Congrat's to your healing!!  I find it so interesting that what works so well for one person could be horrible for another.  Do you order your kefir from OP?, or do you make your own from kefir grains?  Did you get that co-op going?  You must have access to the best green coconuts!?

[littleElefant]

Me too I started with kefir after I stopped dairy completely for a year. Was scared because I thought it could be the reason for inflamation issues I had. Was on and off Paleo but I don't really enjoy eating so much meat and marrow. Makes me always sick after some time. Now I am on a lot of fish and fish roe and eggs, some with whites and also cooked veggies (not so sure about that).
When I started with a little bit of goats kefir 3 days ago I felt so perfectly good after it (did it sort of Budwig style with flax seed and some grated veggies) but I am still sort of scared. There are so many negative comments about dairy.
I would love to gain weight, healthy weight!
How do you eat your kefir, just plain? What else do you eat the whole day, do you include fruit, veggies or do you do very low carb?
Why do you drink milk and not kefir (wouldn't it be better?)
I love kefir, it feels good, looks good and is super easy to digest and I could eat it all  day.

[raw-al]

I'm a bit surprised that no one (including me) mentioned trying high meat to inoculate the system with healthy bacteria.

Did noel or jfgrout3 try it?

[littleElefant]

I did not try high meat yet but sometimes my fish ist quite aged and a bit smelly, I let it open in my ventilated fridge (Don't know it it counts). Also I do my own Sauerkraut and Kimchi.
It seems that I dont digest meat at all at the moment. I eat fish insted.

[raw-al]

Wow that's interesting a vented fridge, that seems like an excellent idea. Where did you get it from?

I would be inclined to believe that the sauerkraut and kimchee are a good idea.

I have trouble with the taste of meats also. Kidney tastes like urine to me and beef is not great, however I find that it varies depending on the supply and my taste buds. I'm OK with pork. The fish I get locally is not good but the stuff I get from my original home in Nova Scotia is awesome...

[jfgrout3]

I didn't do high meat because it smells unappetizing to me and I only eat what smells and tastes appealing to me. Kefir worked great. I only do a quart of kefir every two weeks now. I drink fresh milk instead of kefir, because it tastes good and makes me feel good. I believe once the kefir fully inoculated my gut, the sugars in the fresh milk were no longer feeding pathogenic bacteria which perhaps could cause or worsen inflammation. Fresh raw milk used to cause inflammation when i had colitis symptoms, now it feels soothing to my gut, because of the kefir inoculation. I did the kefir plain, no fruit etc for the whole two weeks, nothing with any sugar, to support my bacteria theory. Now I eat fruit when I crave it, except mango and pineapple which Im still sensitive to. I eat meat, mostly raw, once or twice a week. And once or twice a week, I'll eat some cooked taro, a polynesian tuber, for starch. Taro has 1/10th the starch molecule size of a potato, and I find it to be quite digestible. It's known in Hawaii as a hypoallergenic food with low protein. I'll cook it, then pour raw heavy cream on it, making my own delicious form of mashed potatoes. Taro can also be fermented after it's cooked, which forms poi, an even more digestible starch with probiotics. Taro naturally contains the same lactic acid bacteria as cabbage. I also believe that since we produce so much amylase, the starch digesting enzyme , in our saliva, that eating cooked tubers was a natural part of our dietary history as humans. I'm sensitive and sometimes intolerant to potatoes and all grains, but taro doesn't bother me. Early Hawaiians considered taro to be the food with the highest mana.Other than that, it's a couple young cocos in the morning each day, and the rest milk and cream.

[littleElefant]

Hi raw al, my fridge is a old ventilated bosch, I put a 2nd ventilator inside if I want a realy quick drying, but usualy I use just the fridge with his ventilation for a very gentel and slow drying prozess.

Hi Jf, how are things going. I stopped again with dairy because my liver started hurting when I touched it, that was strange?
I think perhaps I mix too many things together. But I dont dare  to eat a lot of kefir yet. Want to start slowly and give my body a chance to adapt.  What are the good combinations with kefir and with butter?
Are there any rules whith dairy consumpion, something like the thing you mentioned with magnesium?

[paper_clips43]

Was meant for a PM to jfgrout3 although his inbox is not set up due to his lack of reaching the required posts.

Hows it going jfgrout3?! I was so happy to read your experience with raw kefir and curing your diverticulitis! I have it as well and noticed that too much raw meat aggravated my symptoms. I have since learned it is because of the excess tryptophan. Anyway I currently live in Sedona Arizona and am traveling to Maui sometime early next year. Were you successful in starting a raw dairy co op in Hawaii? I am very interested in helping and lending any support I can as well as reaping the benefits so email me back if this is still something you are interested in.

And by the way, thank you so much again for sharing your experience. I have access to raw grass fed dairy here and am going to be experimenting with it to see if I can benefit. from the kefir. I have already noticed a significant improvement by not eating raw meat every day and consuming large amounts of raw grass fed butter.

Looking forward to sharing notes and experience with you.

[jfgrout3]

Hi everyone.  My health is great still. My weight fluctuates between 180 and 190lbs.  Maybe 175 right now because we just had a baby and I'm stressed but happy   I don't eat  much meat at all anymore, except for a little sashimi every few weeks. Mostly raw milk, cream, butter, and kefir. Raw dairy makes up about 80 to 90 percent of my diet and the rest is fruit, coconut water, fresh orange juice sometimes mixed with some brand of raw green powder, and different types of starches like cooked taro, and smaller amounts potato or quinoa pasta doesn't seem to be as bothersome to my digestion these days since I've healed. My girlfriend eats cooked meat, so I'll have a bite of her cooked organic chicken breast every now and again but it always causes a skin breakout and digestion problems. A few days of raw milk and kefir always sets me right though. God bless the Amish.

[K-WI]

How do you make  your kefir?

Did you ever had a white tongue and bad breath?

Thanks
Glad you are doing great.

[jfgrout3]

I made the kefir by adding 1 tablespoon real kefir grains I acquired added to a quart of raw milk, then fermented at room temp for 48 hours in the dark with a cloth rubber banded on top. I probably had a white tongue and bad breath at first due to pathogenic bacteria or candida but after my elimination became normal it subsided. I stopped raw honey as it triggered an acidic reaction and hurt my bowel elimination and made me manic, I now add a little maple syrup from the Amish to the Kefir. But I wouldn't do that or any sugar including honey or fruit until I'm certain the bad micro organisms are gone. To me that is determined by my bowel health, skin condition, and an overall sense of good energy and well being.