organic raw eggs

[nicole]

Would raw unfertilized organic eggs from the health food store be good to eat if I'm in a pinch? How do most paleos react to them?
Thank you

[kurite]

For me they are really easy to digest and gives a quick boost of energy. Ive never had problems eating 2 a day.

[tammy123]

I always prefer one organic raw egg with a glass of milk as it is is good source of instant energy and it will definitely fulfils requirements of proteins and other stuff that are require the most. Daily two eggs are very much necessary for keeping your body fit.

Thanks

[Hannibal]

Raw organic egg yolks are toothsome, but I don't do very well when I eat too much of them; for example over a ten.

[Paleo Donk]

I've been eating them for a couple months now from a local farm that I trust. I notice nothing from taking them and eat up to ten at a time and probably average 4-6 a day. I think I might have felt slightly bad the first few times I ate them but this feeling has gone away or was just a figment of my imagination. Supposedly they are good for cleansing the liver. Hell if I know.

[Hans89]

I think I might have felt slightly bad the first few times I ate them but this feeling has gone away or was just a figment of my imagination.

I don't think it's imaginary. I had problems eating whole raw eggs before, too, but they went away after some time.

[Sitting Coyote]

I don't remember having any trouble when I began eating raw eggs, although I don't eat a lot.  Perhaps 3 each day.  And my eggs are fertilized.  I don't know if that makes any difference.

[sameulroj25]

raw organic eggs whites are better as its yolk contains the food for an unfertilized egg so better is to avoid egg yolk

[michaelwh]

raw organic eggs whites are better as its yolk contains the food for an unfertilized egg so better is to avoid egg yolk

Eating the white without the yolk leads to biotin deficiency (due to avidin). Bad idea.

By the way, why do you have links to some ab gadgets in your signature?

[TylerDurden]

Yes, I think the links should go. They do look suspiciously spammer-ish!

[nicole]

Do you think its a problem if I felt a little mucus in my throat after eating them?

[ForTheHunt]

Probably just the eggwhites

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, try it without the egg-whites. However some people have a food-intolerance even to raw eggs so it's not a good idea to overindulge in them.

[Iguana]

Organic eggs are not quite as bad as other commercial eggs, but still it’s better to totally avoid them once we eat 100% raw. « Organic » hens are fed with  organic  poultry feed, which is processed, heated and very often contains wheat. They may also be fed with organic bread or other cooked stuff since organic farmers are unaware of the molecular damages done by heat. Damaged molecules may accumulate in the food chain, just like heavy metal, organochlorinated pesticides and radioactive elements . Thus, eating raw eggs laid by poultry fed heated food is much like eating cooked food.

It’s the same problem as with “organic” meat.

Of course, the disappearance of any bad feelings after you get used to it is no proof at all that they are ok. It’s most probably due to habituation, just like one get accustomed to cooked food, coffee, alcohol or any drug .

[alphagruis]

Organic eggs are not quite as bad as other commercial eggs, but still it’s better to totally avoid them once we eat 100% raw. « Organic » hens are fed with  organic  poultry feed, which is processed, heated and very often contains wheat. They may also be fed with organic bread or other cooked stuff since organic farmers are unaware of the molecular damages done by heat. Damaged molecules may accumulate in the food chain, just like heavy metal, organochlorinated pesticides and radioactive elements . Thus, eating raw eggs laid by poultry fed heated food is much like eating cooked food.

While I agree with the general idea that poultry or any other animals should be fed exclusively raw food this stance (originally from Burger) is much too pessimistic because it is highly oversimplified and overlooks some basic physics and biology:

-First, it is not because humans or other mammals such as ruminants cannot digest properly grains such as wheat that poultry or other natural seed predating species (granivory) a priori cannot do it. It is much more likely that they can digest raw wheat quite well. Wheat or other grains merely should not be the main part of their food as they often are in agro practices.

-Second, fortunately damaged organic molecules from processing by heat or otherwise do not merely accumulate in environment ( soils, animals, plants etc) as do indeed heavy metals or very long period radioactive elements. Bacteria, fungi and other primitive forms of life unlike man or higher forms of life are actually capable to rapidly adapt and use them as "food" in a very effective way. This finally destroys or recycles these molecules more or less rapidly. May I recall here once more that these damaged molecules continuously form also at room temperature in small amounts and if Burger's stance were true they would long have accumulated to dangerous levels since life exists on earth i.e. over a period as long as several billions years.    

-Third, it is fortunately too pessimistic to say that "eating raw eggs laid by poultry fed heated food is much like eating cooked food". This is because poultry like man provided they are not too old and thus more or less sick are quite capable to get rid of these damaged molecules to a large extent. They act like very effective filters and do not merely accumulate the damaged molecules they ingest in their flesh or eggs. And poultry laying eggs are generally young animals so that these detox mechanisms are very effective a priori. And organic egg production often involves only a small part or little or no heated or processed food. So that it is not unlikely that such eggs may contain no more residual heat generated poisons than conventional fruits or vegetables contain residual pesticides.  

  

[TylerDurden]

The trouble with the above is that it's been pointed out that the nutritional profile of meats from animals raised on only partially grainfed meats   is not that different from animals fed on standard, unhealthy grainfed diets. So, clearly, eating unnatural foods or heated foods does change the nutritional profile quite remarkably. I certainly notice a major difference in taste between organic, commercially-raised chickens/ducks and wild mallard duck carcasses so I'm sure that organic eggs from pastured or wild birds are superior to organic eggs from grainfed birds. That said, some wild omnivores such as wild boars(or wild jungle fowl) do indeed eat a few grains on occasion as part of their diet.

Same principle re meats from animals raised on unhealthy diets applies to cannibalism. The Kuru disease, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_%28disease%29 , is supposed to be caused by prions much like the CJD/mad cow's disease. As CJD/mad cow's disease is said to have arisen as a result of cows eating rendered animal fats it is reasonable to assume that part of the problem re Kuru was the ingestion of cooked animal foods.

[alphagruis]

TD, all "pastured" poultry is usually fed a least a substantial amount of grain. Just ask the farmers. Such birds and their wild ancestors are by nature seed predators and this is therefore probably quite fine if they forage the rest of their diet (greens and plant matter, insects, worms, wild seeds etc..) on pasture.

This must be carefully distinguished from grainfef ruminant meat or dairy. These animals are not granivores by nature and wild ancestors and should therefore certainly not be fed any substantial amount of grains.

[TylerDurden]

TD, all "pastured" poultry is usually fed a least a substantial amount of grain. Just ask the farmers. Such birds and their wild ancestors are by nature seed predators and this is therefore probably quite fine if they forage the rest of their diet (greens and plant matter, insects, worms, wild seeds etc..) on pasture.

  I quite agree that so-called pastured poultry is often fed on quite a lot of grains along with the worms, grass etc., (I was thinking of pastured in the "100% grassfed" sense). However, that is solely because feeding them grains allows the birds to lay eggs for most of the year. I'm sure the occasional eggs laid seasonally by wild birds would be nutritionally superior to organic eggs from pastured birds.

As for seeds, aren't they in a different category from grains? I mean sprouted seeds for example are easily digestible by humans, for the most part, unlike grains.

[alphagruis]

Well, grains are a domesticated form of wild seeds. In principle sprouted grains are also easily digestable by humans because sprouting destroys the enzymes inhibitors and antinutrient factors such as phytic acid and breaks down proteins such as gluten.

The problem is with digestion of dry grains or seeds. Only some species have apparently managed to adapt and properly digest them such as specific birds or rodents.

[KD]

I've found none of the arguments around egg whites to be very convincing, other than one potentially which suggested that fertilizing the egg makes all the difference in its digestibility. I havn't decided that to be personally true, howver even with quality unfertilized pasture eggs, any difficulties I have as far as digestive or eliminative ills tend to go away in time. Although wild eggs would clearly be superior, and there is some tampering with the life cycle as suggested, I think the habituation excuse as to why some might not do well/poorly with eggs is really dodgy. People have used this argument over and over to talk about all animal foods, that people are too toxic and therefore need meats etc...You can take someone is excellent health who hasn't had eggs in years and is all raw, and someone in poor health and there is probably no greater percentage that the eggless healthy person would have a reaction similar to cooked eggs and that the person in poor health will feel well. Its possible eggs in general are just mediocre nutrition, but I don't think this has do with with partially grain fed birds, who with access to pasture and insects, estimates a fairly natural diet for a bird that has been bread far from its wild counterparts.

it hypothesized my many that eggs pull toxins from the body and are particularly in regards to the liver. This could be totally wrong, but a true test in this case would be to eat a large quantity of wild eggs. I suspect in most cases the wild eggs will be even more volatile as the bacteria in the egg seems to be a major culprit in most symptoms, rather than its toxicity or digestibility. This is just my opinion and I have not done any tests myself.

[Iguana]

Thanks Alphagruis for you elaborate answer. I was expecting such comments from you since we discussed that matter in the past.

-First, it is not because humans or other mammals such as ruminants cannot digest properly grains such as wheat that poultry or other natural seed predating species (granivory) a priori cannot do it. It is much more likely that they can digest raw wheat quite well. Wheat or other grains merely should not be the main part of their food as they often are in agro practices.

Isn’t there a problem downstream of digestion ? Concerning poultry, I agree and I give myself some millet to mine, but it is unheated. Grain is almost ever dried, perhaps at 65°C or more, be it organic or not.

-Second, fortunately damaged organic molecules from processing by heat or otherwise do not merely accumulate in environment ( soils, animals, plants etc) as do indeed heavy metals or very long period radioactive elements. Bacteria, fungi and other primitive forms of life unlike man or higher forms of life are actually capable to rapidly adapt and use them as "food" in a very effective way. This finally destroys or recycles these molecules more or less rapidly. May I recall here once more that these damaged molecules continuously form also at room temperature in small amounts and if Burger's stance were true they would long have accumulated to dangerous levels since life exists on earth i.e. over a period as long as several billions years.

Of course, these damaged organic molecules decay. But the experience shows they are still present in meat and in eggs.  The problem here is not their accumulation (or rather non accumulation) in the environment, but as you mention, their presence in higher forms of life such as humans, mammals, poultry and their eggs !
  

-Third, it is fortunately too pessimistic to say that "eating raw eggs laid by poultry fed heated food is much like eating cooked food". This is because poultry like man provided they are not too old and thus more or less sick are quite capable to get rid of these damaged molecules to a large extent. They act like very effective filters and do not merely accumulate the damaged molecules they ingest in their flesh or eggs. And poultry laying eggs are generally young animals so that these detox mechanisms are very effective a priori. And organic egg production often involves only a small part or little or no heated or processed food. So that it is not unlikely that such eggs may contain no more residual heat generated poisons than conventional fruits or vegetables contain residual pesticides.

 
Perhaps my wording was somewhat exaggerated  and too pessimistic. At least we can hope so. But it is clear that some of these damaged molecules remain in the flesh and in the eggs. See for example the state of that “Mr Pasteur” calf . It was not an old animal !
You can do another experiment by feeding a little too much fish to your hens : a fish taste is found again in the eggs yoke. You can store those eggs for weeks, no matter, the fish taste remains.  

[Hans89]

Isn’t there a problem downstream of digestion ? Concerning poultry, I agree and I give myself some millet to mine, but it is unheated. Grain is almost ever dried, perhaps at 65°C or more, be it organic or not.

You can still sprout them though, so I think they are fine...

[alphagruis]

Iguana,

I essentially agree with your comments.

As to the accumulation of heat generated toxins in environment, it seems however that Burger clearly stated somewhere his great concern about this issue and I just pointed out that fortunately for us things are probably not so dramatic.

Similarly I think it's important to notice that wheat or grain may be good food for birds like hens and bad for us or ruminants.

As to the fact that specific food components are undoubtedly retained in meat or eggs I also agree of course. My father raised rabbits and some molecules from specific herbs such as origan in their food could clearly be recognised in taste or smell of their meat.

Mr Pasteur calf is indeed a very nice example of the effects of even moderate heat denaturation. In the report on the experiment it is observed that, as compared to Mr Raw calf, initial growth was quite comparable up to the end of the first 4 weeks of the experiment. I'm inclined to believe that this most likely can be traced back to the very effective detox mechanisms at work in Mr Pasteur's organism so that basic vital organs such as liver or kidneys are still healthy enough to not markedly impair normal growth. Yet a small part of the poisons is inexorably retained day after day and thus progressively accumulate in his organism. By the end of the 4th week some threshhold is apparently reached where detox mechanisms are  impaired, the organs become sick and an "overall break down" takes place. Their function is then so drastically altered that from now on growth is definitely impaired so that Mr Pasteur ends with a weight of 115 kg as opposed to Mr Raw's 200 kg 2 months later !

This illutrates the picture I developped in my previous post. Mr Pasteur "remains young or healthy" during 4 weaks only.  

[cherimoya_kid]

The Kuru disease, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_%28disease%29 , is supposed to be caused by prions much like the CJD/mad cow's disease. As CJD/mad cow's disease is said to have arisen as a result of cows eating rendered animal fats it is reasonable to assume that part of the problem re Kuru was the ingestion of cooked animal foods.

Actually, CJD (called "scrapie" in sheep)  has been endemic in sheep populations for several hundred years.  I'm not sure it has anything to do with food quality.  

[TylerDurden]

Actually, CJD (called "scrapie" in sheep)  has been endemic in sheep populations for several hundred years.  I'm not sure it has anything to do with food quality. 

I am aware that wild animals can get it. However, it appears that the practice of providing rendered animal fats to (grainfed) cattle made things much worse and caused the current epidemics. As for BSE,  there are countries like New Zealand where BSE  hasn't appeared at all, because the animals were all 100% grassfed.