hookworms

[Hans89]

I've been reading on here and on the web about hookworm or 'helminthic' therapy. It sounds very very promising... Maybe the piece in the puzzle that's missing... My gut is so messed up that I have problems digesting anything but raw meat, so I hope these critters can help me.

Here is the wikipedia link, it also provides some links with further information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy

The trouble, now, is to get infected. It seems nearly impossible in Germany, but I'll be going to Taiwan next year, so I might be able to go to Thailand and / or the Philippines, and I guess it should be feasible to find some place where people defecate on the ground. Well, I hope I can.

[William]

I've been reading on here and on the web about hookworm or 'helminthic' therapy. It sounds very very promising... Maybe the piece in the puzzle that's missing... My gut is so messed up that I have problems digesting anything but raw meat, so I hope these critters can help me.

Here is the wikipedia link, it also provides some links with further information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy

The trouble, now, is to get infected. It seems nearly impossible in Germany, but I'll be going to Taiwan next year, so I might be able to go to Thailand and / or the Philippines, and I guess it should be feasible to find some place where people defecate on the ground. Well, I hope I can.

IIRC it's in the shit of wild animals, I've heard of two kinds; the American one is wimpy while the European variety is the "right stuff" for us. I was warned that if I ever went to Germany, not to walk barefoot where there are wild animals because hookworm infection would result.

There should be some specialist you could ask about this - wikipedia is corrupt.

[ForTheHunt]

Don't do this.

It's too radical, too risky, has weak science and not alot of people who've experienced it. Also William recommends it, and I tend to disagree with everything he has to say. Nothing personal, our views just differ.

[kurite]

Don't do this.

It's too radical, too risky, has weak science and not alot of people who've experienced it. Also William recommends it, and I tend to disagree with everything he has to say. Nothing personal, our views just differ.

I agree try alternatives first

[Hans89]

Thanks for the advice... What would be the alternatives? There have been people posting on here who said they've been raw paleo for five years, and their digestion still hasn't healed...

[Hans89]

IIRC it's in the shit of wild animals, I've heard of two kinds; the American one is wimpy while the European variety is the "right stuff" for us. I was warned that if I ever went to Germany, not to walk barefoot where there are wild animals because hookworm infection would result.

There should be some specialist you could ask about this - wikipedia is corrupt.

So have you had hookworms before? What's your experience?

[TylerDurden]

Don't do this.

It's too radical, too risky, has weak science and not alot of people who've experienced it. Also William recommends it, and I tend to disagree with everything he has to say. Nothing personal, our views just differ.

Yes, I know what you mean.

[William]

So have you had hookworms before? What's your experience?

I suggest you read disparaging posts carefully - merely because someone writes that "William recommends it", it does not follow that William recommends it.

Note that I have not been to Germany since I learned this, that hookworms were specifically recommended for excess blood iron ( not a rare problem), and that I recommended that you consult a specialist.

[RawZi]

I've been reading on here and on the web about hookworm or 'helminthic' therapy. It sounds very very promising... Maybe the piece in the puzzle that's missing... My gut is so messed up that I have problems digesting anything but raw meat, so I hope these critters can help me.

    I haven't tried it.  I know people who eat raw pig intestine to try to get worms and heal.  I'm not opposed to it.  If I thought I needed it, I would do it.

The trouble, now, is to get infected. It seems nearly impossible in Germany, but I'll be going to Taiwan next year, so I might be able to go to Thailand and / or the Philippines, and I guess it should be feasible to find some place where people defecate on the ground. Well, I hope I can.

    Bon voyage and good luck!

[kurite]

Thanks for the advice... What would be the alternatives? There have been people posting on here who said they've been raw paleo for five years, and their digestion still hasn't healed...

Heres an article
http://www.alternative-healthzine.com/html/0300_3.html
Just a note that I experimented with apple cider vinegar and it did wonders for me.

[Hans89]

Thanks!

Well, I guess I should look into this further. On the other hand, running around barefoot in the forest seems like the most natural thing in the world, so maybe that will suffice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHzLSRKfBI

This video has a guy who went to Cameroon to get hookworms. His story is in one of the links on the wiki article.

"That's why our immune system has too little to do and starts to attack our own bodies"
That made me laugh... What a statement!

On the other hand, Dr. Llamas from the video is spot on with the "yucky factor": The frame of reference that we have that some things are wrong and some things are right... Raw meat, especially high meat is definitely "yucky," but experience shows it to be beneficial where conventional thinking tells us that we should all be dead or dying.

[Hans89]

Heres an article
http://www.alternative-healthzine.com/html/0300_3.html
Just a note that I experimented with apple cider vinegar and it did wonders for me.

Thank you. I've tried almost all of those already, except for the massage (however, I've tried somewhat different methods of abdominal massage before). I've also been taking apple cider vinegar daily for a while without seeing any difference yet (I was compelled by this article: http://www.naturodoc.com/library/lifestyle/umeboshi_vinegar.htm), but I'll continue trying. I've tried HCl tablets, too, they did nothing for me, sadly.

[ForTheHunt]

Have you tried colon cleansing?

I went to thailand and did a 12 day colon cleanse fast and it did great things for me.

I actually released just massive massive amounts of mucoid placque.

Also I think fruit is very healing for the digestive system. I've eaten very high fruit the last week and I have bowel movements every morning. It's very nice. And I feel just awesome.

I think the way to restore your digestive system is to do an adequate amount of cleanses, then rebuild it with high-meat, soil based bacteria etc.

[Hans89]

Have you tried colon cleansing?

I went to thailand and did a 12 day colon cleanse fast and it did great things for me.

I actually released just massive massive amounts of mucoid placque.

Also I think fruit is very healing for the digestive system. I've eaten very high fruit the last week and I have bowel movements every morning. It's very nice. And I feel just awesome.

I think the way to restore your digestive system is to do an adequate amount of cleanses, then rebuild it with high-meat, soil based bacteria etc.

What kind of colon cleanse? I've tried fasting with enemas before, I've tried it with epsom salts, I've tried psyllium seed husks. The psyllium was the worst ever for my digestion, it slowed down and my stools became very gross. I'd love to fast again, but it gives me such low blood sugar, makes me depressed and hateful etc. I guess I could do it if I had nothing to do, no work, no internet etc., but that's not the case and won't be for some time. I'm also afraid that it might damage my (already weak) adrenals.

I take high meat, but not now, cause I have a cough and I'm under the impression that colds don't go away when I'm taking high meat. I think there are some toxins in my throat / thyroid which cause me to have colds over and over again (though it seems they come less often and are less severe being on RAFD.)

[Tom G.]

 I don't know very much about parasites helping autoimmune disease. I wonder if the theory is coming from the wrong direction. Wouldn't it be more likely that people who live in more unsanitary conditions are likely to be eating less processed food and therefore not prone to develop autoimmune problems?

 Jasper Lawrence ( in the video ), went to the tropics to get hookworm. Was he just eating less junk food and being more active while trying to infect himself? Since part of the life cycle of the worm is spent outside of the body, it would die out and he would have to reinfect himself.

 When he gets back to civilization, his crohn's would likely start acting up again around the same time as the hookworms are dying off. This would cause him to believe it's the hookworms that "cured" him.

 Like I said, I don't know anything about this. I'm just trying to make some sense of this.


    Tom   

[PaleoPhil]

When he gets back to civilization, his crohn's would likely start acting up again around the same time as the hookworms are dying off. This would cause him to believe it's the hookworms that "cured" him.
...

Based on the video (did you watch it?) and Jasper Lawrence's other accounts, his Crohn's hasn't returned, his worms have not died off (he actually sells the living worms that he excretes) and he claims that many of his customers all around the world have reported benefits from his hookworms. So by all appearances, the remission of his Crohn's appears to be more than just "belief," though the only way to know for sure if it will work for an individual is for that person to try it. Others also engaging in helminthic therapy and research.

You should check out his website (googling his name should find it, I would think). He had to move abroad because the US gov't came down on him (no surprise there).

[Tom G.]

Based on the video (did you watch it?)

  Yes. I'm trying to read more about it. One of the things that I'm looking at is the life cycle and how long it is. It seems from the stuff I've read that infection lasts 3 to 5 years. Is that correct?

  It's possible that the parasite gives some sort of symbiotic affect. But too many of them doesn't seem like a good idea. It's difficult to tell. There are pros and cons for this type of treatment.

  I haven't gone to his website yet, I'm still absorbing. If Jasper is living in a less "civilized" country, wouldn't it still be something that shouldn't be ruled out just yet as a cure for his Crohn's? He is still likely eating less processed food then living in the US. This could be the major factor.

  There are some other videos of people claiming great benefits. There are other videos as well about the negative health affects of having hookworm. I'm not ruling anything out at this point just yet.

   Tom

[Hans89]

Well, I wonder about one thing... If he just infected himself once and keeps having hookworms, then why does it say that you need a fresh dose every two weeks on here... http://www.ovamed.org/... and it's really expensive, 300€ every two weeks!! strange...

[majormark]

According to Aajonus, all you need to do is eat a coup of pigs intestines and you don't have to pay anything.

[Hans89]

A cup? Hope my providers will butcher a pig again soon, then. Or maybe I can get them from boar, but I doubt that.

[PaleoPhil]

Well, I wonder about one thing... If he just infected himself once and keeps having hookworms, then why does it say that you need a fresh dose every two weeks on here... http://www.ovamed.org/... and it's really expensive, 300€ every two weeks!! strange...

That site is for TSO (Trichuris suis ova - pig whipworm eggs) therapy, which does require multiple inocculations, but Jasper used hookworms on himself. Jasper says in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0tpzODdR0c

...that he guarantees that the hookworm infection from the worms he sells will last at least 3 years.

 Yes. I'm trying to read more about it. One of the things that I'm looking at is the life cycle and how long it is. It seems from the stuff I've read that infection lasts 3 to 5 years. Is that correct?

Since Jasper guarantees it will last at least 3 years, that figure could be correct.

It's possible that the parasite gives some sort of symbiotic affect. But too many of them doesn't seem like a good idea.

If you’re interested in helminthic therapy, here are some more sources to check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/helminthictherapy
http://www.deranged.com/

 I haven't gone to his website yet, I'm still absorbing. If Jasper is living in a less "civilized" country, wouldn't it still be something that shouldn't be ruled out just yet as a cure for his Crohn's?

He is still likely eating less processed food then living in the US. This could be the major factor.

If you do read up on him it would answer many of your questions. He only just recently moved out of the country, so your guess that foreign living could explain his remission is off. I'm not advocating the therapy for anyone and I don't plan on trying it myself, but it almost seems like you're trying to convince yourself that there are problems with the therapy before you've even read up on it. Read first and decide for yourself, and check out the NPR radio program where they interviewed him. I think you'll find that Jasper is a very reasonable, logical fellow.

Also bear in mind that if those who claim that the hygiene hypothesis is wrong and parasites are all only bad and we should all lead highly antiseptic lifestyles, cook all our foods and take antibiotics to treat a host of illnesses were right, most of us should be extremely ill or dead by now. We are living evidence that the anal-retentive approach is excessive and the hygiene hypothesis is more explanatory and predictive.

 There are some other videos of people claiming great benefits. There are other videos as well about the negative health affects of having hookworm. I'm not ruling anything out at this point just yet.

   Tom

A wise approach.

[Hans89]

PaleoPhil, thanks a lot for the info.

[raw]

    I haven't tried it.  I know people who eat raw pig intestine to try to get worms and heal.  I'm not opposed to it.  If I thought I needed it, I would do it.

    Bon voyage and good luck!

[raw]

    I haven't tried it.  I know people who eat raw pig intestine to try to get worms and heal.  I'm not opposed to it.  If I thought I needed it, I would do it.

    Bon voyage and good luck!

i've been eating raw beef stomach, intestines regularly and there's no worm's problem. i think, my  health improves after that.

[RawZi]

i've been eating raw beef stomach, intestines regularly and there's no worm's problem. i think, my  health improves after that.

    Someone who's a nutritionist, but I don't know if they have credentials, says my son should do heminthic therapy.  What do you think?  Do you think I should talk about it with my son?  I don't think he will do it.  He hasn't tried (raw) meat yet.  I think he'd rather try meat out of those two choices.  I don't know though.  You think he will never listen if I say I support eating pig intestine extract to him?  Even the cheese he is eating never has stomach enzymes in it.  He's so careful.