Charles Zero-Carb Running Journal

[Nicola]

It's worth it: exercise and zero-carb (meat and water) made to words by Charles:

http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=367&page=1

Why does he cook his meat - raw meat and fat could make a health jump 

Nicola

[xylothrill]

Many simply don't believe that an all raw diet is necessary for health, especially when their current diet has made them feel much better and improved their health over their previous diets. He knows RAF-ers exist but only he can really answer as to why he doesn't choose it for himself. The rest is speculation.

Craig

[Satya]

Jimmy Moore kicked Charles off his forum.  Does anyone know where Charles' new forum is?

[TylerDurden]

Many simply don't believe that an all raw diet is necessary for health, especially when their current diet has made them feel much better and improved their health over their previous diets. He knows RAF-ers exist but only he can really answer as to why he doesn't choose it for himself. The rest is speculation.

Craig

That's true, people generally only turn to raw animal food diets out of desperation once all other diets and options have been exhausted. The culturally-induced phobias concerning raw animal foods are just too strong, in most cases.

Plus, people frequently delude themselves about their state of health.I know a doctor who needs to take painkillers twice every day in order to avoid looking obviously frail and has to, like others of his generation, take lots of supplements to make up for the missing nutrients in his "balanced diet", yet he views my own raw-animal-food-diet as a deluded  cult that he tries to, in a supposedly subtle manner, to turn me away from - and he's under his own  delusion that  he's better-off than many others of his generation, healthwise. I was told by another acquaintance that he once forgot his pain-killers and so had to laboriouslyand ignominiously  crawl slowly up the long, steep steps in my Italian garden from the sea, because the pain was too great in his f***ed-up joints for him to be able to walk normally up the steep steps.

[TylerDurden]

Jimmy Moore kicked Charles off his forum.  Does anyone know where Charles' new forum is?

Why was Charles kicked off the forum? For being too zero-carb-oriented rather than low-carb, perhaps?

[Satya]

If you click the linked words "kicked Charles off his forum" in my original, you can read all about it on the livin la vida blog.  Charles got too popular, I suspect.  And Jimmy hawks processed, low-carb crap that carnivores just won't buy, and thus these folks threatened his bottom line.  That's my take on it.

[Nicola]

Why was Charles kicked off the forum? For being too zero-carb-oriented rather than low-carb, perhaps?

He has his own forum; he was not kicked off - he is just too good!!! His own forum is 

http://www.zerocarbage.com/

Nicola

[Satya]

He has his own forum; he was not kicked of - he is just too good and his forum is 

http://www.zerocarbage.com/

Nicola

Yay Nicola!  Thank you.  I searched for it and couldn't find it.  Nice url he has.

[Nicola]

Yay Nicola!  Thank you.  I searched for it and couldn't find it.  Nice url he has.

I have found the answer to your/Tylers question and yes the whole forum looks and is good:

All of you who enjoy this forum, please give a special thanks to Dixonge because he was instrumental in making me reject Jimmy's offer and deciding to go it alone! He did the research and laid the groundwork for this new forum.

So is that why Jimmy is deleting all the zero carb posts? I think THE reason Jimmy jumped on the zc way of living is because he makes his living with low carb. ZCers don't buy frankenfoods or supplements, etc.

I'm glad you went independent Charles. Are you having to pay for all of this yourself? Is there a way for us to help?

Dixonge, thanks so much for the help you have given. I'm just beginning this new way and can't wait to see the changes down the road.

I paid for all of this myself and it really wasn't all that bad. It was important to me to go independent and not rely on Jimmy or his resources.

At some point I may approach some companies for advertisers, but it would have to be people that we use. I won't go to Atkins just to get a dollar. I would use meat distributors, ranchers, or even bottled water companies. I would love to get the beef industry involved with us; after all, I am their most ardent supporter! We need an add around here that says, Beef, It's what's for dinner!

On the other hand, I would not want someone to argue that I do this for money; although it would be nice to do something I love and make a living as well.


Nicola

[wodgina]

I've followed his blog and sounds like a decent fella. Sounds like he was kicked off because he was not willing to do a deal with the other guy. He will do well. It will be interesting to see what happens commercially. I hope he sticks to keeping it a hobby.

I wonder why Lex doesn't have the same following?

I bet we get people coming to this forum from his once they start having trouble with constipation nutrient deficiencies after following his diet for a while. Especially eating well cooked foods. Yeck.

I can see people eating his diet to improve their figure and not losing weight owing to the toxins in the well cooked meats.

[TylerDurden]

Yes, the toxins in cooked-foods do usually prevent weight-loss, particularly in my own case.

The reason why Charles has a bigger following than Lex is obvious:- not only is he suggesting that it doesn't matter whether you cook your meats( citing Stefansson's experiment despite the fact that Stefansson  ate some raw animal food(eg:- raw marrow) during his short-lived 12-month-long Bellevue experiment), but also he recommends cheaper, grainfed meats rather than the slightly more expensive grassfed meats. People will always follow the path of least resistance and when a diet offers an easy way out, even if it doesn't work long-term, it's still an attractive option for many people.

Last I checked, Charles doesn't do dairy, right?

*NB:- I don't suggest that grassfed meat is expensive as that's a bit of a myth. It isn't really as , due to its higher nutrient-levels, one can live perfectly well on smaller amounts of grassfed meats than is the case with grainfed meats. When one further compares a raw-animal-food diet consisting of grassfed meat with a conventional junk-food diet based on the "balanced diet", then one can see just how much cheaper a raw-animal-food diet is as most RAFers aren't going in for chocolate/alcohol/smoking binges, let alone binging on crisps("chips" to Americans) and other junk-food. Yet, some RAFers keep on complaining about how expensive a RAF diet is.

[Nicola]

Tyler, some people don't just have them selves to think of; grass fed beef or other grass fed meat does cost a lot more than "normal every day" meat that "normal" people eat. Just think if you had 3 children and a wife to feed and share life...

You know I have trouble with things that many humans say...some say raw is super and the next thing is they are sick and call it "detox" or they end up eating cooked food, binge on fruit, honey and all kinds of other ED's.

Well Charles has not talked about any of those things and many others don't have all this "detox" things...

He does give a lot of support and has a lot of information, which does make sense.

Nicola

[TylerDurden]

The idea that grassfed meat is always expensive is nonsense. I've managed to get hold of very cheap grassfed horsemeat in Italy, for example, which is FAR cheaper than the grainfed beef on offer, over there. Same here in the UK, I can get whole wild-hare carcasses, complete with organ-meats, inside(albeit headless), for 10-11 pounds each(13 pounds if I don't order them regularly, which is rare), a massive grassfed leg of mutton for 14-16 pounds sterling etc. Plus, as grainfed meat is inferior nutritionally, one has to eat more of it to get most of the right nutrients, though one would miss out on omega-3s, mostly.

What irks me, though, is that cooked-zero-carbers are following such highly artificial diets, yet frequently cite the Eskimos/Inuit as supposed proof that their diet  works, in the long-term. In fact, the Inuits followed a diet that was radically different from most cooked-zero-carbers - for one thing, they ate large amounts of organ-meats, ate much of their meats raw, and ate meats from wild-animals with much, much  higher levels of omega-3s than would be found in supermarket, grainfed meats.

[Nicola]

The idea that grassfed meat is always expensive is nonsense. I've managed to get hold of very cheap grassfed horsemeat in Italy, for example, which is FAR cheaper than the grainfed beef on offer, over there. Same here in the UK, I can get whole wild-hare carcasses, complete with organ-meats, inside(albeit headless), for 10-11 pounds each(13 pounds if I don't order them regularly, which is rare), a massive grassfed leg of mutton for 14-16 pounds sterling etc. Plus, as grainfed meat is inferior nutritionally, one has to eat more of it to get most of the right nutrients, though one would miss out on omega-3s, mostly.

and if you had 3 children (say 3, 4 and 6 years); would you give them tough raw meat? What would you do when they get runny stools - or would that not happen? I am just trying to make a picture of what goes on in others.

I also can not understand, how you can digest cooked starch (Christmas pudding) on special occasions; the body looses the ability to digest things that it never gets! That is not a thing that can be put right by high meat, fasting or what ever - that is just giving the mind an answer to the problem.

Nicola

[TylerDurden]

I disagree that not eating cooked-starch for years makes it indigestible. For one thing, unlike Lex and co, I'm not following a zero-carb diet but a low-carb one, so carbs, cooked or not, don't have the same effect on me as they do to Lex.

As regards the Christmas Pudding, if I eat a standard Christmas Pudding I always suffer greatly because of the heated vegetable-oils in it - in the last few years, though, I've eaten only organic Christmas Puddings which don't have vegetable-oils so I'm less affected by them.

If I had children, I would undoubtedly feed them on raw animal foods. After all, despite your claims, raw animal foods can be quite soft(eg:- raw liver, raw fish/shellfish etc.), and even muscle-meats like raw leg of mutton are quite soft - though I would always cut up the meats beforehand for children to eat better. Of course, in Palaeo times, children were breastfed for much longer periods(c.1 year) until their teeth were fully developed and able to handle raw meats.

[coconinoz]

"You know I have trouble with things that many humans say...some say raw is super and the next thing is they are sick and call it 'detox' or they end up eating cooked food, binge on fruit, honey and all kinds of other ED's.
Well Charles has not talked about any of those things and many others don't have all this 'detox' things..."

1 thing to consider is that, generally, human beings can speak from personal praxis, from theory, from imagination, from a perceived need to maintain or improve some social status or self image, from an urge to make noise...

[TylerDurden]

Nicola, it just occurred to me that this topic should have been put in the Hot Topics forum, in the first place, as that's really the forum for discussing any alleged benefits of cooked-zero-carb/raw vegan/cooked-junk-food etc. diets.

*Forgot to add 1 other point:- I'm always deeply suspicious of anybody who claims 100% success on any diet, without any issues whatsoever. If they don't mention at least some setback  on their path to health, no matter how slight, or worse, as in the case of some others(not Charles) start making outrageous claims, such as the notion of being able to live forever on such-and-such-a-diet or become as strong as  Arnie without the need for any exercise whatsoever etc., then there's good reason to be think that a great deal of exaggeration is involved.

[JustAnotherExplorer]

Why does he cook his meat - raw meat and fat could make a health jump 

When queried about this in the past he replied that none of the primitive societies that he was aware of ate a diet high in raw animal foods.  He prefers to cook his meats to medium.

edit:  upon reading some of Charle's new forum he now says that he eats his beef medium-rare and is getting rarer.

[TylerDurden]

The trouble is that Charles claims that the Eskimos ate hardly any raw animal food and bases this on a very biased comment by Stefansson in his books. But, in fact, all other non-Stefansson sources, such as Weston-Price, make it very clear that raw animal food was a major staple of the Inuit diet(and of many other Arctic tribes such as the Nenets of Siberia).

It's interesting that zero-carbers commonly have a tendency to steer towards cooking meats less and less - Charles seems to be no exception.

[wodgina]

It is very intesting zero carbers cooking less and less.

I like a guru who can change their mind eg Shazzie. If Charles starts to recommend rare steaks I will be very very impressed.

[goodsamaritan]

and if you had 3 children (say 3, 4 and 6 years); would you give them tough raw meat? What would you do when they get runny stools - or would that not happen? I am just trying to make a picture of what goes on in others.

I have those children and when my wife is not around I give them raw meat because raw meat is very, very, very much tender.  It is when we cook the meat when it becomes hard.  If we make soup out of beef meat, we have to bring in the pressure cooker to tenderize it.  My children 3, 5 and 7 all agree that raw meat is softer, easier on their chewing than cooked meat.

My kids never get runny stools.

See them have fun in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwTZAw5aSjU

[Nicola]

You have no idea - do you feed them goat muscle meat or other tough meat?

You always mention how wonderfull every thing works - you don't exercise, you eat a lot of fruit (what about insulin) and you think humans are always needing to detox with all kinds of gunk. Sorry, but it can get extreme - too much selfconfidence!

I can not and do not boast about diet, health or what ever; I can do my best... and not believe every word others say - words can be used to suit "the situation" one is in.

Nicola

[TylerDurden]

goatmeat isn't so tough - well, unless you have very loose teeth like I had in the first few months of goign raw(due to the raw dairy).

[goodsamaritan]

You have no idea - do you feed them goat muscle meat or other tough meat?

I do not know what tough meat you are talking about.  The goat muscle meat I buy is not tough at all.  They would rather eat goat kidneys though.  And my wife agrees with raw fish.

You always mention how wonderfull every thing works - you don't exercise, you eat a lot of fruit (what about insulin) and you think humans are always needing to detox with all kinds of gunk. Sorry, but it can get extreme - too much selfconfidence!

Maybe the reason I can eat a lot of fruit is because in the Philippines fruit is abundant, local, organic / wild. 

I do not think humans always need to detox with all kinds of gunk.  If you are referring to www.curemanual.com the detox protocols serve to clean totally messed up people like myself 3 years ago, or my brother just last year, or any of those people I helped cure because they were totally ignorant and polluted to begin with.

Extreme with self confidence?  Hmmm... I was at my worst in 2005 when I came down with a debilitating eczema, I had amalgams, I came from a SAD diet, in my younger years I was damaged by roaccutane and other steroid drugs, my father used to melt lead in our back yard and we stocked thousands of smelly brand new tires in our house and I managed gas stations with all those gasoline fumes... I got sick and turned my life around... so I got better 2006, better 2007, better 2008... I'm glad I found aajonus then Geoff on allexperts... and things are going so well...up and up and up, I'm just happy!  

So I help cure my family and friends from diseases... not all of them though... my grandma is still weak.

I wish I could share with everyone how happy and thankful I am to be so much healthier... running around with the kids is my exercise... I'm all pooped this evening.

I can not and do not boast about diet, health or what ever; I can do my best... and not believe every word others say - words can be used to suit "the situation" one is in.

Nicola

I don't feel like I'm boasting.  I'm just sharing my luck with everyone.  Just spreading the good news.  It all started when we conquered infertility, I thought that I must give back to the community by helping others. 

Of course you must cherry pick the things you need for your own personal experience.  Before Geoff and before Aajonus, my teacher was Barefoot Herbalist MH, his teachings were great, but raw fruitarian wasn't working for me... so I moved on to Wai Diet... which led to RPD. (I'm omnivore, not zero carb, I think I'm high fat, high carb.  I tried cooked meat paleo diet, but I found results inferior to raw paleo diet.)

Seems you might be in a situation right now?  How can we help?

[coconinoz]

"upon reading some of Charle's new forum he now says that he eats his beef medium-rare and is getting rarer"

in a personal email charles said that he may end up eating like me (i.e. raw)

please folks: please respect charles by not quoting the line i wrote above this 1; thanks