RZC Athletes that train 3+ times a week

[PaleoPhil]

It may sound like it, but I don't.. All I know is that it didn't work very well for me. I respect it working for others. I do how ever know that optimal muscle growth and muscle recovery needs carbs. You'll never reach your maximum potential with out eating carbs. ....

I see comments like those from the pro-carb crowd, and others where pro-carbers say you should eat carbs like bananas after a workout, then I see stuff like the following that suggest that not only is low carb good for exercise, but fruit afterward is actually bad:

Fruit may be good for weight loss, but bad post workout
Posted on August 2, 2010 by land animal

….there are 2 reasons that fruit might not be the ideal food to eat immediately after a workout. First, a recent study in the Journal of Applied Physiology found that eating a low-carbohydrate meal after aerobic exercise enhances your insulin sensitivity. This is highly beneficial, since impaired insulin sensitivity, or insulin resistance, is the underlying cause of type 2 diabetes and a significant risk factor for other chronic diseases, such as heart disease (1).  Second, consuming any sugar–including fructose–after exercising has been shown to dramatically decrease the fat-burning effect of human growth hormone that is associated with intense physical activity. Bottom line? You might want to skip fruit 2 hours immediately following your workout."

And the source is surprisingly not at all biased toward low carb or carnivore: Land Animal, who proudly reports that she is on board with Healthy (Meatless) Monday—“Start your week with healthy, environmentally friendly meat-free alternatives, http://landanimal.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/fruit-may-be-good-for-weight-loss-but-bad-post-workout

Very confusing, and on the other hand, Lex and Cordain say that VLC may promote a natural form of insulin resistance. There is basically every opinion under the sun re: exercise and how diet affects it and I haven't seen any two people agree on all the fundamentals.

[Ioanna]

I've noticed so far that if I don't eat enough fat I feel rather unmotivated and rely on some inner voice for motivation to get through my workout.  My sprints and lifting have been fine, but I can't really say for endurance since I haven't been in great shape for it in a while.  I'm not hungry after a workout, and usually go to bed without eating at all. I'm not particularly hungry up on waking either, though sometimes I am.   

Also, when my weight drops below a certain point I stop getting my period. If more than a few months go by like this then I get scared, and eat more fat than I feel I need to until it comes back.  Any girls experiencing this?

[klowcarb]

I lost too much weight when I was 19 and lost my period for 2 years. I've been on birth control (oral contraceptives) ever since, and never had problems with them. I have never been off of them long enough to know if I get regular menses. I am 104lbs. and have 13-15% bodyfat, with lots of LBM.

[Guittarman03]

Keto diet is great for keeping that lean body mass while maintaing strength.  I was never able to gain muscle, strength, or size in any significant amounts in ketosis. 

I was able to do pretty much any type of workout, and for long periods of time.  I could improve on cardio stuff, but I couldn't get big in the gym. 

The girls here really seem to like zc and the way it keeps their body looking, but my question is this:  where are the dudes who are significantly increasing MUSCLE and SIZE on this diet? 

Not a knock on the zc or ketogenic, I will one day go back, just not yet. 

[King Salmon]

Guittarman,I understand your point.However,this thread is about "athletes".So,that could mean many different things.Judo,power walking,to jumping rope.I doubt there would be many or even any "bodybuilders" per se.Btw,I'm not saying bodybuilders can't be athletes.

But ya,I'm interested in that as well.I knew a guy who was raw-vegan that was pretty big.But RZC,so far,nada.

[wodgina]

Guitarman tried RZC for a week or two so I would take his advice with a grain of salt.

[djr_81]

The girls here really seem to like zc and the way it keeps their body looking, but my question is this:  where are the dudes who are significantly increasing MUSCLE and SIZE on this diet?  

I'm working on it, give me time.

[Guittarman03]

Wodgina, way to completely mis-characterize my experiments with zc and vlc.  I have no intent for this to get in to a big rumble about zc.  It didn't work for me (I think developing cavities after 2-3 weeks is reason enough to quit), but I do believe it works for others, that's why I was reading this thread in the first place. 

At any rate, I was in ketosis for a solid 3 months and lifting with very slow results (I was between 10-30g carbs a day).  Looking back it's possible that my routine had just stagnated, or maybe it really takes 6 months to a year for gene expression and mitochondria to fully adapt.  I gave it another try for about a month, but saw my results stagnate/decline, and just decided that I didn't want to wait to start putting on muscle, or face the possibility that I could spend all that time with basically nothing to show other than a failed experiment.

However, to be perfectly honest, I wish that vlc had worked out b/c I REALLY like the benefits of a ketogenic, vlc diet.  It's cheap, convienient, simple, satisfying... you guys all know the benefits.  I kind of consider vlc to be very similar to zc in terms of how the body processes food for fuel, which is why I'm interested in this thread. 

Like I said, I could do everything else just fine, and could maintain strength (except for the 1 month experiment - I lost b/c I didn't give my body enough time to adapt), but I just had a tough time putting anything on.  And make no mistake, lifting weights is a big deal for many athletic endeavors - baseball, football, gymnastics, etc.  Just don't get confused, there are weight lifters, and there are body builders.  The former are interested in useable strength while the latter are interested in pretty show muscles.  I'm somewhere in between, and use both strength and size as measures of success. 

djr, good luck (and I mean that).  I would really like to see some ketogenic lifters/body builders who are able to get results. 

[King Salmon]

What about this Randy Roach guy? Is he RZC? I'm not sure how much carbs he eats,but he's definately a raw meat guy.

[wodgina]

I don't know anyone who has achieved size on VLC or RZC.

Carbs do bloat you up.

[TylerDurden]

What about this Randy Roach guy? Is he RZC? I'm not sure how much carbs he eats,but he's definately a raw meat guy.

No, Randy Roach eats plenty of carbs, mostly raw I suspect.

[sven]

No, Randy Roach eats plenty of carbs, mostly raw I suspect.

From the superhumanradio interview raw eating follow-ups Randy Roach follows AVs juicing methods, and eating 1 fruit a day.  Pleanty of honey and avocados with his meat.