Depression ? Can I use this diet to get off my meds?

[BakeyMan]

You and your family have been through quite an ordeal.  My family and I have been in similar situations.  I've had issues for about 10 years that I'm sure was fueled by the typical American diet.  I've never been on any long term medications even though there were times when my life was in jeopardy.   Instead, because of a distrust in doctors I tried to find alternative solutions.  That's been my sole priority for 3 years.  The problem was even if things were beginning to work I would lose confidence in myself to continue and give up.  That's when I realized my diet was killing me.  For the past two months thanks to raw meat and acupuncture I haven't had any severe emotional outbursts.  But it is still lurking about less intensely.  Surprisingly, my anxiety has not changed a bit.  I'm sure this is because I recently stopped eating grains and substituted them with mass quantities of fruit.  

“I came upon a site with the story of a man who was bipolar, started the Daily Seafood Diet, and within 5 months was off meds and had been doing well for a year. The theory behind that diet is that there are 72+ trace minerals that are necessary for our cells to function properly and which are no longer in our soils. Foods from the ocean are the only sure source of them. “

I've eaten fish for the past 5 days.  I've always noticed feeling a little less out of it after eating some in the past.  The mercury/PCB contamination hype unfortunately would get the best of me and I would freak out if I ate a fish labeled unsafe.  So it was only a monthly treat for a while.  I still am paranoid about preparing fish raw but I’m going to force some oysters down my throat tomorrow.  I haven't noticed any major improvement yet with cooked fish. The days I am unable to get fish I'll have fish stock plus this cheap red clay called Azomite that has 67 trace minerals in it from ancient sea beds.  It's $30 for 40lbs if you live near a farm that sells it.  You just stir it in water.  If you want to try a sample for your son just ask because I have tons.  

I read a little about the Gaps Diet before looking into the Paleo stuff.  I'll read more about it and the others  within the coming weeks.  I truly appreciate your advice Angeline!  You will be med free in no time!  Ditto on the organ meats!  Kidneys give me a surge of energy like no other food.

[raw]

depression also runs in my family. my own brother has bipolar and every year he's becoming worse. he's severely suffering. Angeline, your informations are really helpful. i wonder, if you consume those wild salmons raw. it's difficult to feed my brother and he hates fish. he suffers with his bad stomach, ears and nose (he'd a surgery and become worse) inffections often. now he's very suicidal. most of the year he stays in hospitals. he changes his mind thousands time a day. he claims that he gets a fly inside his ear...etc. i was also depressed (very mild) before i started raw paleo. i used to get very angry for no reason after my nap in the middle of the day. i know the suffering from depression. it's harder than the cancer or aids. 

[Angeline]

My son doesn't eat his salmon raw. I cook it on very low heat until it's just barely cooked. The rest of his diet is very healthy for a teenager. Grassfed beef, farm fresh eggs (from chickens that actually run wild on the farm), everything else is organic and made from scratch. A little fruit but not a lot. No grains. He occasionally eats junk food at friends' houses (all their food is junk), but as long as he eats mostly at home he's okay. Thanks for the tip on the clay. I'll check into it. I do eat (actually drink) the salmon raw. I can't chew and swallow animal products (too repulsive) so I get them down this way: Blend them in the Vitamix with water and lemon juice just to the point where there are no chunks (it needs it be watery, not thick). Drink it down quickly while I hold my nose and repeat in my mind "tropical shake, tropical shake". Then, still holding my nose, I swish my mouth out and put a piece of lemon in and chew. Only then do I let go of my nose. At first I was also concerned about mercury, PCB, other pollutants in fish. Check out what the guy on The Daily Seafood Diet has to say about that issue. I agree with him. At this point, all our food is polluted. I would rather be consuming the fish and feeling good, than avoiding fish and suffering. I am very wary of heavy metal chelation products, as I was using them when I had the psychotic episode. I've never had any kind of problem with any raw flesh that I've consumed, but I choose my sources carefully. No grocery store flesh. If you're trying to help your brother or someone who won't eat fish or healthy food, you could try soups made with fish broth, or try a natural trace mineral supplement such as the clay. I have used a similar product called ConcenTrace. The SCD diet is also worth looking into (similar to GAPS). Unfortunaley, it takes so much dedication to recover (and I mean restore good health) from a serious psychiatric illness, it's probably not possible to help someone who isn't cooperative. I didn't do well on the fruit. Consuming the flesh foods raw without salt and eating lots of raw butter without salt keeps me from craving fruit. One more thought if trying to help a family member. The Homo Optimus Diet may be helpful and may be more acceptable to the average person.

[Brother]

I have good results on a raw diet. It keeps my mood much more relaxed and mellow. I find that eating raw food makes me a better person. I am more conciderate, have more patience, the line beyond which I will become violent has been moved far far away from where it was before. I feel a stronger need to do good things for others and a stronger connectivity with people, something which people around me have commented on.

[BakeyMan]

“Check out what the guy on The Daily Seafood Diet has to say about that issue. I agree with him. At this point, all our food is polluted. I would rather be consuming the fish and feeling good, than avoiding fish and suffering.”[/size]

that's true.  If we're going to end up consuming pollution either way, might as well be from fatty fish. 

“I can't chew and swallow animal products (too repulsive) “

Have you tried ground lamb or sushi?  That's how I eased my way into it.  Also marrow tastes just like butter.

The book Nourishing Tradition's has plenty of great raw meat recipes.

[Angeline]

I haven't tried ground lamb. I have tried sushi. I did get it down but it wasn't pleasing. Have tried steak tartare and the taste wasn't so bad - it was the texture and the amount of chewing it took to get it down. I was actually doing ceviche successfully (didn't really like it but thought it would work) for a few weeks and then just couldn't stand the sight of it. Drinking it has been the easy way for me because it's over so quickly. Maybe I'll get to a point where it's appealing. Just don't know yet. Thanks for the tips. I do have the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook. I haven't tried any of the raw meat recipes yet, but I'll look them over. Maybe something will look good. I know there are several factors involved. It's partly psychological, partly not what I'm used to, but also it just doesn't taste good. What really tastes good to me are cherimoyas, watermelons, cherries, nectarines. When I eat those foods I'm experiencing "this is the food of the gods". But the next morning I wake up feeling like I have the worst hangover. With raw flesh and fat, I wake up feeling good. I really hope I'll enjoy them some day.

[BakeyMan]

atleast it's staying down.  fruit must give you a major sugar rush.  i'm ordering the SCB from the library, i'm going to try to convince my father to read it becuase he has TONS of digestive problems caused by eating cereal and bread everyday.

[Angeline]

The SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) book is called "Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet" by Elaine Gottschall, and the GAPS book is called "Gut and Psychology Syndrome" by Dr. Campbell-McBride. They are similar programs with some differences. You can Google SCD vs. GAPS and get an overview of the differences.

[cliff]

You could try natural substances like herbs to replace your medicine.

All pharmaceuticals are extracted from natural sources or they make them in a laboratory based off the chemical in the plant.

[angelinadiaz]

Better you go for yoga and meditation.

[sabertooth]

some alternative health professionals recomend 6 weeks of sunbathing or tanning beds before any meds are given for depression, there is evidence that the majority of depressed people could benefit from more sun. When I was a teenager I would get seasonal winter depression, and during the summer it would go away ,because I would play all day in the sun. I know from experience that sun therapy works. Try eating a lot of raw cholesterol(egg yolks) and sunbath regularly and after a few weeks anyone with a depression disorder should have some improvement.

[pioneer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nbZCNDgbY

anybody who needs help with, or are interested in this topic needs to see this video, The Marketing of Madness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nbZCNDgbY

It turns out that the psychotropic drug industry is the biggest scam big pharma has ever had. Pulling in $550 billion annually, they pull in most of their wealth from these psychotropic drugs. They simply make up mental diseases and vote on symptoms in conferences. A lack of sunlight and testosterone are some of the main causes of depression. And psychiatrists fail to even admit that nearly 95% of depression is caused by an underlying physical condition. It is very rare to have a psychological condition without a physical condition to begin with. So that leaves us with the question of, why are we taking these mind altering drugs, which no one (not even psychiatrists or doctors) even knows how they work, when the problem stems from a physical cause. Fix the physical cause and fix the psychological cause.

[Alomonger Pete]

Yes, veggie juice and coconut oil/cream should be avoided like the plague  unless you are absolutely certain beyond any reasonable doubt  that they don't cause you any harm.

What's the problem with these foods?  Please explain, I'm very curious ...

[TylerDurden]

What's the problem with these foods?  Please explain, I'm very curious ...

Raw dairy, raw veggie-juice and raw coconut oil are the foods most complained about on RVAF diets.In the case of raw veggie juice, it is thought that the amounts of antinutrients as well as standard nutrients are made more bioavailable after juicing, thus resulting in nutritional deficiencies. And as for coconut oil, many seem to have some form of allergy towards it.

[raw-al]

Raw dairy, raw veggie-juice and raw coconut oil are the foods most complained about on RVAF diets.In the case of raw veggie juice, it is thought that the amounts of antinutrients as well aqs standard nutrients are made more bioavailable after juicing, thus resulting in nutritional deficiencies. And as for coconut oil, many seem to have some form of allergy towards it.

Tyler,
One of your favorite rants again.  I notice you have tamed down your prior ascertations  into "its is thought"... That seems to be Sanskrt for "Tyler seems to think".

Lots of people do fine on these and no doubt lots do not, just like probably every type of food. The reasons may have to do with adaptions made in the past by groups of people who were in the situation of having these foods abundantly available in their locale. The foods had adapted to the local climate/soil and stressors located therein and their consumption helped out the local people's immune system to cope with them. Since nowadays populations can easily migrate large distances and these dietary adaptations have been thrown into disarray as people move to areas of the world completely foreign to their ancestors.

Also the multitude of chemicals and harvesting techniques and shipping techniques allow people in for instance Northern Canada to eat coconuts. Hardly a native part of their diet. Same is true with eating foods from the deep ocean. It's kind of like... "you pay yer money and you takes yer chances.... Some people can adapt to the foods and some can't.

There are systems that can give you a leg up on figuring out if you are able to adapt to the foods. One is Ayurveda which I happen to enjoy. There are others.

To try to assume that everybody can eat such and such and some foods are bad news for everyone is pure and simple silliness. One friend of mine can down Chilli peppers in some hot sauce like they were potato chips. I'd be going to the hospital if I tried that.

[TylerDurden]

The above is, of course, absolute nonsense. I did not of course suggest that they were problem foods for absolutely  all, merely that they were the foods most commonly reported by other RVAFers as causing endless problems for them. Other raw foods cause far, far fewer issues for RVAFers as a whole, so do not have to be cautioned against to the same extent as raw dairy, raw veggie juice, raw eggs or raw coconut oil.

It would be wholly dishonest to pretend, therefore, that issues with raw dairy or raw veggie juice are as frequent as issues with raw meats, for example.

[raw-al]

anybody who needs help with, or are interested in this topic needs to see this video, The Marketing of Madness:

It turns out that the psychotropic drug industry is the biggest scam big pharma has ever had. Pulling in $550 billion annually, they pull in most of their wealth from these psychotropic drugs. They simply make up mental diseases and vote on symptoms in conferences. A lack of sunlight and testosterone are some of the main causes of depression. And psychiatrists fail to even admit that nearly 95% of depression is caused by an underlying physical condition. It is very rare to have a psychological condition without a physical condition to begin with. So that leaves us with the question of, why are we taking these mind altering drugs, which no one (not even psychiatrists or doctors) even knows how they work, when the problem stems from a physical cause. Fix the physical cause and fix the psychological cause.

Thanks Pioneer,
That was a very interesting time consuming set of videos (18). That explains a lot of my distrust with the words "latest research", "scientific research", "Doctors recommend", etc etc etc. When I read research papers I smell big stinking rats hiding behind them. Including people like Mercola and the other Merchants of potions running around the net. For awhile I subscribed to one of these character's newsletters as I thought he was ligit. I noticed after awhile that his globe trotting to find new therapies always seemed to find him selling the stuff.

I do not agree (although I cannot prove what I am saying) with your assessment that 95% of psychological issues are based on underlying physiological conditions. I believe that many psychological issues go back to an underlying psychological event or environment as was demonstrated at around the 16th or 17th video. Naturally things like malnutrition (which can mean a multitude of things, no doubt including cooked vs raw foods), drugs and alcohol will exact a toll both prenatally and post natally).

Naturally this could be debated till the cows come home as psychological events are what form our lives and we all react to them in our own unique manner.

However I appreciate the link and I passed them to a few friends some of whom are in the medical community (mainstream and alternative). I do have a relative who just finished Harvard in Psychiatry and his generation are less inclined to opt for the drug panacea.

I have to say that being in the psychiatry profession must be difficult, as I suspect that the options of what to do, can in a lot of cases be disheartening and the alternative therapies can seem to be like snake oil. I guess every profession has the soft underbelly.

[pioneer]

I do not agree (although I cannot prove what I am saying) with your assessment that 95% of psychological issues are based on underlying physiological conditions. I believe that many psychological issues go back to an underlying psychological event or environment as was demonstrated at around the 16th or 17th video. Naturally things like malnutrition (which can mean a multitude of things, no doubt including cooked vs raw foods), drugs and alcohol will exact a toll both prenatally and post natally).

No problem, I really enjoy spreading good information. Also, that assessment was not from my own words, but straight from the movie, as is was asserted that most psychiatrists agree on a poll that physiological factors are the cause of depression, or other psychological problems nearly 95% of the time. This really rings true to me in my own life and many others I have come in contact with. When you really think about it, what psychological problem does not have an underlying physiological factor? I should not have said cause of depression, but rather, main factor in it. Our physiological state of well being correlates 100% with our psychological state, in other words, they are synonymous. Sure, if I had a traumatic event happen to me, like going off to war and seeing my friends die, that would be the cause of my depression, but it is not necessarily the reason why I would be depressed. Humans should be able to handle the psychological stresses and trauma that happen to them, unless of course their body does not permit them to do so.

I used to be depressed because of my bad health, but it was not because of pity on myself, it was because I had too much estrogen and not enough testosterone. When I began to regain testosterone, and lose estrogen, I became much happier. All you need to do to make a man happy is give him some testosterone and progesterone, and he'll be back on his feet.

Soldiers are committing suicide more now than any time in history, but it is not because of post traumatic stress, it is because of withdrawal from prescription drugs given to them overseas.

[raw-al]

It is my opinion (not to be confused with the truth ) that psychological events are a major contributor to the state of the physiology. Actually the two of them work in concert and can be like a dog chasing it's tail. The mind is intimately connected to the body and vice versa. What happens to one affects the other.

Give you a frinstance. My ex was in the grocery store one day when she was pregnant. Someone in there said to her "ha ha you are pregnant now so ya can't eat chocolate anymore". This just happened to hit her at a weak moment and she got defiant and started eating chocolate for the first time in her life. She had it hidden all over the house and basically ate gobs of it throughout the pregnancy (she later admitted to me). Daughter # 2 had issues associated with pitta and as far as I am concerned this was the source. The chocolate was a symptom. The psychological issue was the source.

A psychiatrist would look at the daughter and say that she had a physical issue but in reality if you go deeper you find....

As far as psychiatrists being held out as the gold standard on knowledge of the psyche it is curious that they have such a p*sspoor success rate. They generally tend to manage problems, not cure them. (No dough in a cure model) This tells me they are not experts on the subject. They do a wonderful job of defining and classifying just like modern medical doctors but that's where their ability stops.

Meditation is the latest in their arsenal. This has been around since "Christ was a cowboy" and they are finally seeing the efficacy of it. There is tons of "science" around showing how it helps and indeed in some cases has worked the miracle cure. However I believe that the physical has to be worked on also and part of that is diet.

[Sudeshmishra]

Hello guys,
I also agree all posts because there have a much suggetion to improve your depression, and i also suggest you Raw dairy, raw veggie-juice and coconut oil are the foods most complained about on RVAF diets.In the case of raw veggie juice, it is thought that the amounts of antinutrients as well aqs standard nutrients are made more bioavailable after juicing, thus resulting in nutritional deficiencies. And as for coconut oil, many seem to have some form of allergy towards it.

[pioneer]

It is my opinion (not to be confused with the truth ) that psychological events are a major contributor to the state of the physiology. Actually the two of them work in concert and can be like a dog chasing it's tail. The mind is intimately connected to the body and vice versa. What happens to one affects the other.

Give you a frinstance. My ex was in the grocery store one day when she was pregnant. Someone in there said to her "ha ha you are pregnant now so ya can't eat chocolate anymore". This just happened to hit her at a weak moment and she got defiant and started eating chocolate for the first time in her life. She had it hidden all over the house and basically ate gobs of it throughout the pregnancy (she later admitted to me). Daughter # 2 had issues associated with pitta and as far as I am concerned this was the source. The chocolate was a symptom. The psychological issue was the source.

A psychiatrist would look at the daughter and say that she had a physical issue but in reality if you go deeper you find....

As far as psychiatrists being held out as the gold standard on knowledge of the psyche it is curious that they have such a p*sspoor success rate. They generally tend to manage problems, not cure them. (No dough in a cure model) This tells me they are not experts on the subject. They do a wonderful job of defining and classifying just like modern medical doctors but that's where their ability stops.

Meditation is the latest in their arsenal. This has been around since "Christ was a cowboy" and they are finally seeing the efficacy of it. There is tons of "science" around showing how it helps and indeed in some cases has worked the miracle cure. However I believe that the physical has to be worked on also and part of that is diet.

True, and as far as I know psychotrpopic drugs only harm you, and never rid you of depression. The best antidepressants known are testosterone, progesterone, fat, sleep, and sunlight. I speculate that a big reason why so many people are depressed these days are because of these issues and their interrelatedness. You need the fat intake and sunlight to give the proper cholesterol needed to give the building blocks for testosterone and progesterone. Then you need the sleep to trigger LH to stimulate the testes or adrenals to produce testosterone and the testes, ovaries, and adrenals to produce progesterone. I always look at health as a process of reproduction. Reproduction is the #1 reason why we exist. Therefore, we need to have the prerequisites for reproduction. Sleep is a prereq to diet and diet is a prereq to reproduction.

So far, I know that the major studies prove that testosterone injections are 10X more effective at treating depression than psychotropic drugs such as prozac. This was proven in a study.