Hey Guys! Looking to try some raw meat... have a few questions.

[B.Money]

Hey guys hows it going? Been reading around this site for a few days now, great site! Decided I think I want to take the plunge and try this thing out for myself. A little background on me....for the past couple years dietary health and exercise (strength training) has become a huge interest and hobby of mine and I have been trying my best to juggle these two things to find balance. For the last couple years I have been on relatively low carb diets, all organic and grass fed meats (cooked though..), wild fish, etc.

I have had gut problems for as long as I can remember (probably something to do with being on antibiotics for a long period as a child). I should mention that for about 6-10 months I was finally able to produce a stool and felt great, I thought I had my problem all figured out. Then I recently got some kind of stomach flu and lost almost 10 lbs in a week (still losing weight) from being unable to eat my normal diet with loss of appetite and constant, frequent bowl "problems". The stomach pains only lasted a couple days, but the bowl "problem" has been persistent and has not let up one bit. I feel fine besides feeling a little malnourished, low appetite, etc. but I have this sinking feeling that the flu has passed, and this problem is here to stay, just like it has for years before that. Well that's what got me thinking that maybe my current diet is not as perfect as I had thought, maybe its time to try something else. My old diet is repetitive, and it usually looks something like...

-6 cups raw milk (taking this out today...this amount worked with me in the past--but maybe not anymore)
-10oz x2 meals daily of grass fed beef shank, cooked in crock pot cause this stuff is TOUGH (and the only grass fed meat I can find for under $8 a lb...)
-10oz x2 meals daily of wild Alaskan salmon (steamed)
-around 90 grams of soaked unpasteurized almonds through the day--sometimes substituted for real sourdough
-fruits, cultured veggies, etc. Greens like salad don't seem to digest at all.
(every day.)

So...now I have some questions regarding all of this.

-As of now, Weightlifting, gaining muscle and strength, etc. is a slight priority over diet, meaning I NEED to be able to eat enough to make progress. Now the reason I mention this is because on the front page of this site it mentions people overdoing it, and eating TOO much raw meats and having issues. Is there a way I can make this work then? Are there any competitive lifters on the board with success with this kind of eating? I realize I may not need as much food as I previously did, but I am still thinking I will need a good bit more than the average Joe.

-Like mentioned on my diet post and in a little more detail, the only grass fed meats I can find around here (in southern california) is sold at whole foods market. They are stocked with Eel River beef. Anyway I do have a budget, and I can't afford any other cut than the beef shanks (cow leg). Now I don't know if anyone here has tried this cut, but its full of stringy fat, and is very tough to cut, let alone eat. Has anyone had any success with this meat, or any ideas on what I can do with this problem? I have ground it up in the food processor once and the texture about made me sick--but maybe its something I can get used to. I can also get grass fed beef liver somewhat affordable, and have eating that raw a couple times, its actually much easier to eat than the meat.

-Any raw meat rules or rules of thumb? Like for example how many days can thawed raw meat be kept in fridge. Or how many times can you re-freeze and re-defrost a single piece of meat without worrying about anything. (I think whole foods always gets their meat products frozen on the truck, then defrosts them and cuts them for display...then I bring them home to freeze again...etc.)

Those three questions are about all I have got for the moment, other than just wondering how I am going to get enough food in, what kind of things I can eat to get my calories up, etc. As you can see the milk and nuts are a huuge part of calorie intake, I have been drinking raw eggs to try to get used to the raw thing--so that can replace some, but we are talking about like 1500 calories lol

Anyway I really hope I can figure out a way to make this work with my current lifestyle--and hopefully I can finally put this gut problem to rest... any and all questions/comments/help is greatly appreciated! Thanks for your time!

[TylerDurden]

A lot of gut problems can be linked to dairy-intake so I would suggest cutting that out to see if things improve.

As for raw meats, long-term RPDers can leave raw meats in the fridge for months on end so as to make "high-meat". Those very new to the diet might only be able to handle the taste of raw meats which are less than 2-3 days old after being bought.

I generally make it a rule to store high-meats in sealed containers, and eat all other raw meats within a 2-week period at most. This is purely to avoid possible complaints from others re smells.

As for refreezing/thawing, this is a bad idea:- freezing ruptures the cell-walls(ice-crystals form) thus depleting nutrients at a much quicker rate than usual. Every time you thaw the raw meats, there is some damage. So I suggest you just thaw the meat once and eat it all and not store it again in the freezer. Also, prefrozen meats taste less good than fresh,nonfrozen meats, incidentally.

Re the other question:- not sure:- If I were in your position, I would choose to buy smaller amounts of higher-quality/better-tasting raw animal foods, ending up with the same budget. I'd rather have a diet that I enjoy the taste of and just eat less, than the other way round. Besides, there is some evidence re Intermittent Fasting.

[kurite]

Welcome. Id like to just notify you that nearly all almonds in the U.S. are produced in California which require either heating, chemically treating, or treating the almonds with radiation in order to be sold.

[B.Money]

Tyler- do you store fresh meats in containers in the fridge as well? I was doing some reading on this site and they mentioned how its best to leave meat "out" in the fridge and some people mentioned feeling ill if they ate meat from sealed containers. Just wondering if sealing is a high-meat specific, or not?

Kurite- definitely aware of this, pretty ridiculous. I get my almonds from whole foods that mention being unpasteurized and from Italy I believe---but even then I have my doubts that they are "alive".

[B.Money]

Hey guys have another question--I have this tuna steak I bought at trader joe's awhile ago (has always been frozen), it says its a product of Thailand. I am defrosting it in the fridge---can I eat this thing raw? It smells pretty strong and fishy, but should I try it? It isn't sushi grade or anything, and I don't expect it to have the taste/texture of sashimi, but...edible without being sick? Since its so lean should I eat eggs with it??

[TylerDurden]

Tyler- do you store fresh meats in containers in the fridge as well? I was doing some reading on this site and they mentioned how its best to leave meat "out" in the fridge and some people mentioned feeling ill if they ate meat from sealed containers. Just wondering if sealing is a high-meat specific, or not?

I used to just leave my raw-meats with the plastic covering they had in the sale, and leave them out. Sadly, due to some raw-phobic visitors here and there, I've been forced to freeze most of my raw meats, recently, and leave the raw meats I want to eat that day in a sealed container until I can get round to devouring them. I would not recommend leaving raw meats in sealed containers(except high-meat which gets frequently aired anyway). There are anaerobic bacteria re botulinism etc.

Prefrozen tuna is fine raw.

[B.Money]

Are there any quality issues I should be afraid of? I am sitting here with a swordfish steak from Singapore... is the quality control a concern???

I would love to eat fish steaks like this, but they are all from different countries like this (Singapore, Thailand, etc.)....should I just give these to my family to eat cooked?

[B.Money]

Just bought some wild Alaskan cod fillets I was looking forward to eating raw... then found that it, along with sword fish and others are some of the most commonly infected with parasites... blah. I know I will get the recommendations to not be worried, but I dunno, having a tough time here lol.

[B.Money]

Hey guys still going strong on eating raw--have some questions and I want to post up my diet for a review on things I should do differently.

Keep in mind I am trying to gain muscle and any extra calorie ideas would be great--I think I need some suet. Eating more eggs per day that I would like, but just doing that to get in calories until I get some other food sources.

On average I am eating
-1 serving of fruit
-2lbs of beef (and whatever fat comes with it depending on the cut)
-9 eggs--3 at a time through the day.

I substitute in...
8oz of raw scallops every few days (and remove 8oz of meat when substituting)
4oz of liver every few days (and remove 4oz of meat when substituting)


So far that's it--maybe someone can point me in the right direction of things I should be getting so I don't get any deficiencies and what not? Any veggies, organs, fats? My mom keeps mentioning iodine and I am not sure where I should get it. Maybe I am missing the sticky somewhere. Thanks guys!

[djr_81]

So far that's it--maybe someone can point me in the right direction of things I should be getting so I don't get any deficiencies and what not? Any veggies, organs, fats? My mom keeps mentioning iodine and I am not sure where I should get it. Maybe I am missing the sticky somewhere. Thanks guys!

You're getting enough iodine from the scallops. We don't need much; a serving of seafood a week should give more than enough.

Your diet looks good. You may find in time you don't need to eat that much meat each day unless you're really active that day but it's not going to hurt you to eat it now. Give suet or marrow a shot if/when you find some and see how you like it. You can swap out some eggs if you're eating it or leave the eggs for extra calories.

Liver is really the big organ to make sure you eat occasionally. The others organs are nice for variety, and are nutrient dense, but aren't as important as liver IMO.

Looks like you're doing good. Are you enjoying eating this way?

[B.Money]

Great! I actually had a little marrow laying around and most of it was great I couldn't believe how good it was, just a bummer I ran out already!

How often and what quantities roughly would you say liver would be a good idea? I am actually surprised to announce that I enjoy the raw liver, and would have no problem eating more if I don't run into "overdosing" or something.

So far, I am doing better eating this way (according to my stools and skin) than I ever have. I am finding that I really like raw meats and organs, and the preparation is a snap. I used to spend hours every day cooking meals (I always liked everything fresh as possible). As another added bonus if there is something I don't eat for whatever reason--I give it to my cat (she has been raw for awhile now, her health was deteriorating on "high quality" canned food) so there is zero waste. I am going on vacation for a week soon, and am going to be bringing my food with me--that may prove to be kind of different as I would probably only need a couple coolers, but I am hoping it will work out well.

I do have one negative thing to mention, is that my energy levels are low at times. I can't blame it on the diet because over the last few weeks its been getting pretty hot over here in southern california, maybe I have just not had time to adjust to the heat. Either that or maybe I need to tweak something to make it work for me, maybe more fat, more carbs, less something... maybe more sleep..not really sure.

Overall though I am VERY happy about making this decision. Thanks for asking

[djr_81]

How often and what quantities roughly would you say liver would be a good idea? I am actually surprised to announce that I enjoy the raw liver, and would have no problem eating more if I don't run into "overdosing" or something.

You could probably eat the 4oz you're having every day and not have any issues. You'll find that you'll get diarrhea to purge things if you overdo it with most organs and don't need those nutrients.

I do have one negative thing to mention, is that my energy levels are low at times. I can't blame it on the diet because over the last few weeks its been getting pretty hot over here in southern california, maybe I have just not had time to adjust to the heat. Either that or maybe I need to tweak something to make it work for me, maybe more fat, more carbs, less something... maybe more sleep..not really sure.

Do you get regular daily exercise in? Even simple jogging for 15-20 minutes a day helped me in the past. Running sprints helps that much more so.

Overall though I am VERY happy about making this decision. Thanks for asking

Not a problem. It's good to see new RPDers around here enjoying things from the start (not that a normal slower transition is bad but it's much easier when you get benefits and enjoy it from the start).

[B.Money]

Cool, I will try to get in some more liver then!

I exercise every day, mostly weight training, and sprinting on all non lifting days. I actually went sprinting a couple hours ago and looking back the lower energy/brain haze feeling probably comes from sitting on the coach, because now I feel just fine.

[B.Money]

Hit a little road bump--feeling kinda down. Yesterday I was up super late, couldn't sleep, finally got to sleep at 2am or so. In the morning noticed my stomach was upset, little bit of pain and bloating, gas, diarrhea. Had some rough sleep last night also, I started getting the chills and then got really hot, I presume my body temperature went up and I eventually went to sleep. Woke up at probably 3am, then went back to sleep again.

I have been having diarrhea today, stomach has been feeling a little better, appetite is kind of low and I am trying to drink plenty of water.

Not sure if this is caused by some bad meat, maybe I am having problems with eggs, or a detox??

Kinda bummed because I am leaving to go on vacation tomorrow, hopefully I can get myself back together. Any advice/concerns/comments is always welcomed!

[pioneer]

Good job on committing yourself to this diet. Remember although you will see benefits right away, it is important to stay on the diet for a long period of time before anything drastic can happen through detox. You said you took a lot of antibiotics earlier in life. Be sure to look up the side effects of the antibiotics you took as you could just be detoxing from those stored drugs. When people detox from drugs, they usually have side effects as symptoms. Hope that helps and good luck.

[B.Money]

Interesting! Kinda gross to think all that stuff could have been sitting around in my system even years later. Hopefully this will be a fast detox 

[B.Money]

Still having diarrhea every time I go (took out eggs completely, now I am just on muscle meats and liver), appetite is dwindled down to nothing now,  probably like 500 calories a day and the thought of raw meat makes me feel sick, but I still keep doing the fork to mouth. This is really a bummer, have not been able to shake this all vacation and I am not feeling any better. Having second thoughts now--have not weighed myself yet but I am very worried, I have probably dropped over 20lbs of lean mass since I started eating this way because the calories are so low...

Anyway any insight is welcome... just tired of having diarrhea every day.

[pioneer]

Dude, drop the liver now, yous should not be eating that every day. If you cannot eat much, just eat the raw muscle meat and make shakes, it always works for me when I want more calories. Blend 4 eggs with 2 tablespoon unheated raw honey, and coconut milk. You could also add raw organic fruit too. When your only eating 500cal a day, dont worry about 1 little piece of fruit. But yea, I sometimes eat a dozen eggs a day. In the morning I make a 6 egg shake and evening 6 egg shake. This really helps with the weight gain and raw eggs are pretty much the easiest food to digest. Cancer clinics give them to cancer patients when people cant eat anything else. Whats your height, weight, and body composition? Are you naturally skinny, fat, muscular, or a combination of two?

[B.Money]

My post last night was not as detailed as I thought, my real diet is muscle meats, 1 piece fruit, and sometimes 4oz liver--but I have eaten liver 2x days back to back.

I was eating 9-12 eggs a day from the start of the diet up until a few days ago, and I started getting real sick and decided it might be the eggs giving the problem, or detox or whatever but being on vacation I wanted to avoid it, but I am about to give them another chance again soon because I think I am dying of starvation lol. I also have gas all the time in the morning, no other time really--not sure if that detail can lead me to fixing anything.

I am something like 5'7-5'8, couple weeks ago I was 190lbs now I am not sure I might be in the high 160's. I was at 14% body fat at both these weights, I would say I am more muscular than average... probably wont be soon though if I cant get this appetite up lol

[pioneer]

5'6" 160 is not bad. I am 5'10 170lb and am the healthiest I have ever been in my life. When I first started diet, I dropped 30lb from 200 in 3 months, now that does not seem as fast as you but it just goes to show that your body with all that fat storing toxins is doing its job by losing body fat and toxins. The only scary thing you should worry about is the muscle loss because that can be a problem. However muscle loss when losing weight is normal, just be sure to lose more fat than muscle. Also, do heavy lifting, give your body a reason to preserve its muscle through lifting heavy things. What scale are you using? this can be a huge factor. I have this scale at home that is supposed to tell you your body fat and it always reads near 20% for me, which is just downright humorous. I paid for a bod pod test which is dead accurate and it said 8%. However you should be able to tell if your losing fat by looking in the mirror. Are you more vascular? that is the first thing I notice. Are you seeing definition in your mid section, or is your waist size going down. When I dropped from 200lb, my waist went from 35in to 31in, that is a strong indicator of fat loss. Another factor is the possibility of water weight being high. Certain people hold more or less water than others. It is possible for someone to hold 20lb of water weight. And we all know water weight fluxuates throughout the days and weeks. If you have ever lost or gained 10lb in a day, it is mostly water. It also sounds that you are on practically a zero carb diet, which I do as well with much success. The diet does not work for everyone though. What were your ancestors position on the earth in relation to the equator. If closer to the equator, it is possible that your ancestors diet consisted of moderate amounts of carbs due to the access of more vegetation. If your ancestors lived far from the equator, it is likely that they lived low carb. Consider this as well, when in zero carb, glycogen (body's carbs stores) are depleted. Unless your eating 300 or 400g protein, you could not fill glycogen through gluconeogenesis (body's conversion of protein to glucose). We know that the body stores on avg 500g carbohydrates in glycogen, this is about the max. 500g is 1 lb. So with the combination of water weight, fat loss, glycogen loss, and some muscle loss, it seems very ok with the weight loss you had. Hope that helps.

[actionhero]

It could be that you had a sick egg from a sick animal or you developed an egg allergy.

If you tolerate fruit well try fruit only for a couple days until you get better.

[B.Money]

well the weight loss was not exactly welcomed but it is what it is. The weight loss was definitely some fat, and some water weight (super low carbs), but also tons of muscle which is a huge bummer (I am a powerlifter). I lost a whole lot of strength that I am hoping I will be able to get back. Hopefully I will be leaner and stronger than I was on my previous cooked meat/and carb dieting.

I really hope its not an egg allergy that would suck beyond anything, that is a huge source of cals I could really use. I have a 2hr drive to the next hotel we are staying at, I am going to keep eggs out until then and try some when I get there in case I get real sick.

Anyway I just really want to get my appetite back more than anything

[KD]

I doubt you have up and developed an egg 'allergy', but eggs can and will have strange effects form time to time. the feed is probably a factor, but even if not its essentially a sack of bacteria, alot of it depends on what is interacting with.

I don't know what to suggest other than agreeing with probably sticking without the eggs for a bit, eating as much raw food that is palatable, and eating whatever fruit (if you tolerate it) or other food which seems reasonable till you get more situated, and most importantly, enjoy your vacation.

its normal to drop a little weight, but its a little concerning if you were mostly eating like you describe earlier in the thread and just recently dropped to 500 cal and having signs of digestive distress before and after. I think you need to focus on what you need to feel ok now, and not put too much stock in any other theories or expectations.

I probably had diarrhea the first 3 months on raw animal foods, not every day but often enough. The second time around..not so much diarrhea, but plenty of other bs. I think it probably took me four months to actually feel like I was burning fats for fuel. I still get nausea, and lack of desire to eat, low appetite I still take naps etc... Theres no such thing as a blissful meadow at the end of short hell trip, so might as well have a pleasant voyage.

the only thing I can say positively is that I now tend to maintain weight and muscle at extremely low cal levels if need be, although its gotten precarious since I increased my endurance activity. I hate force eating and I'm trying to eat three meals now as a compromise. I eat a variety of fats a day and have learned which cuts or types of meat to eat that stimulate the palate a bit more or just sit better. I know people that had to give up beef entirely for periods and eat chicken, or something similar. Once you get back you can figure all that out, trying other things like bison or lamb or getting more fat in your diet etc...as for now, I would do whatever you need to do the get your appetite up, especially if you arn't too far into the process.

[pioneer]

Since thyroid controls appetite and body weight, maybe you're hypothyroid. In which case, try eating a little (and I mean like a penny sized) piece of thyroid a couple times a week for a few weeks, this would surely cure a thyroid issue. Beware of the intoxication effects of it though.

[B.Money]

Hey guys all I can say is thanks for the replies! I decided to cheat a little bit last night at sushi and get a bit of tempura veggies and I figured I could use the calories. Also picked up a bunch of organic fruits that I can eat when I am feeling like meat will make me feel sick. I think I may try adding in a little eggs today sometime and see what happens, I got some new pasture raised eggs that look pretty good--but I am still a little worried but I am known to blame problems on the wrong foods all the time, so maybe eggs are not what the problem was.

Never heard of the thyroid thing that is pretty cool and something I will try if I can get a hold of some. I am ordering some bison through northstarbison, and I dont think they have thyroid on their site but maybe I can special order some. Thanks guys