The Wodg Journal

[TylerDurden]

Couldn't the soil be poor due to being overfarmed by colonists? Such happens all the time. Another consideration is the current climate - from what I understand, Australia has suffered from some vey unusual severe droughts in recent decades, and that this situation has been exacerbated by the cities' huge demand for water from other less populated areas in Australia.

Plus, it's been pointed out that Australian Aborigines used many fermenting/processing methods to make a wide variety of plants edible for human consumption, that wouldn't have been easily edible raw. Also, being hunter-gatherers, they roamed more widely, making it easier to get enough plant-matter.

[wodgina]

Couldn't the soil be poor due to being overfarmed by colonists? Such happens all the time. Another consideration is the current climate - from what I understand, Australia has suffered from some vey unusual severe droughts in recent decades, and that this situation has been exacerbated by the cities' huge demand for water from other less populated areas in Australia.

Plus, it's been pointed out that Australian Aborigines used many fermenting/processing methods to make a wide variety of plants edible for human consumption, that wouldn't have been easily edible raw. Also, being hunter-gatherers, they roamed more widely, making it easier to get enough plant-matter.

Nothing to do with over farming, Australia is an old continent and has not had any recent tectonic activity so there are know 'new' mountains/volcanoes producing mineral rich soils. The land is old and weathered with low rainfall. The drought has a lot to do with cleared land and maybe climate change.

There's i almost no edible plant matter where I live but plenty of shell fish, bird' (ducks) kangaroo's and large whales regularly wash up on our shores. Plants are so inferior you would only eat them if there was nothing else.

[TylerDurden]

Well, on the Paleofood list-group, it's claimed by 1 person that australian aborigines consumed c,20-40% of calories in the form of plant-matter.Here's a study which claims an even higher carb percentage:-

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=JpnJ0WpjrvNHPD01TpPpKYxmVcpLpqn1s6jScpwRnFF1hrkdXxbX!1219491712!-587966032?docId=5007673436

Presumably, eastern aborigines would have had more access to plant-matter? As I recall Perth is only a narrow strip of green on the west coast with mostly desert facingnorth and east?

[wodgina]

Yes your correct with the geograghy and the eastern states are greener with better soil. There are many aboriginal groups across Australia (except Tasmania, we killed them all about a 100 years ago) and Australia is as big as USA i shouldnt generalise too much. Anyway aboriginals now eat complete shit with alcohol/petrol sniffing rampant. Just visit any outback town and you will see it.

[Sully]

How come I always read about aborigines (original hunter gatherers) eating mainly plants then? I also read the coastal people of course ate more seafood.

I don't believes they ate mainly plants for some reason. But who knows. Maybe only during certain times.
They could find bits of plant, eggs, insects etc. for a couple of days. Then the men get a big kill.
But the bit of plants, even though there consumed on more days, wouldn't come close to the calories in meat and fat consume 1-2 days.

[William]

How come I always read about aborigines (original hunter gatherers) eating mainly plants then?

That's probably more propaganda from meat-hating lowfat crackpot vegetarian politicians.

[wodgina]

Theres alot of bias i find the 20-40% figure hard to believe and the i doubt many aboriginal groups would of chosen to eat bitter tastless plants like bush lettuce over a plump fatty bogong moth or fatty kangaroo tail by choice. Maybe small groups on the east coast coast of Australia which i feel sorry for!

[Satya]

How are you getting on zero carb, Andrew?  How long has it been?  I think you said you had some crap over the holidays, but then you went back carnivore, right?  How are the workouts going?  I suppose work is keeping you busy, eh?

I am vlc now with just some plant condiments, and I am feeling really good for the most part.  Better sleep, more calm.  My whole family is eating this way, but various stages of raw. 

Did you have abdominal cramps at all during the transition?  My digestion is fine, I think in part because of my activity level.  But I am feeling twinges here and there.  Is there a mineral rebalancing to dropping carbs?  I still eat seaweed, so I get some minerals there.  I am feeling REAL hunger now when it's really time for me to eat.  So that's cool. 

Cheers!

[wodgina]

I'm struggling with zero carb and staying raw mainly owing to social pressure. Going out ect

I went to wedding recently and drank beer. I got severe cramps in my abs when laughing at something at the reception and keeled over in agony for about 10 mins. Then my legs seized up in the middle of the night when sleeping. It was awful. I knew I would drink as it was a really good mate but paid for it for about 3 days of feeling tired and really moody.

Switching between carbs and zero carbs seems to cause cramps as well as diluting electrolyte levels with beverages when your body is as finely balanced as it is when you just eat meat and fat.

Well done with the fam Satya, my family has changed their diet also. Accultration is difficult to get over and maybe it's better not to.. eg the need to have a fridge which is full of pretty colourful veges and fruit.

Real hunger is so good I really hate the insulin charged drooling hunger which makes you lose all control. It takes a while but it is so much better.

Even though I have cheated recently I really feel like I've healed, one sign is I just don't eat very much any more. I eat half as much as when I joined this forum. I'm happy, it's taken a while, 28 years of crap food verses 3 years of good..not a bad result.

[Satya]

Maybe you are having some weird electrolyte imbalance when switching from no carbs back to carbs.  Does it worry you much?  I mean, the wedding episode was kind of severe, don't you think?  I take it you are planning to stick with the zero carb and minimize the cheating?

It is so true about the fridge phenomenon!  I am trying to get away from this very "need to have a fridge which is full of pretty colourful veges and fruit."  I have more meat in the fridge than ever.  The meat drawer stays pretty darn cold too.  Some rendered lard, eggs, and I am making more fermented foods, as the jars are like this in between step.  I have color with pickled beets, cucumbers and sauerkraut, but I don't feel like I have to consume it right now or it will spoil.  I have cucumber pickles almost a year old and they are fine.  So that is my crutch now.  Oh, and I put any dried fruit I have in the fridge too, lol, even though it's fine at room temp!  That way, I can see the color, but it doesn't have to be eaten any time soon.  A colorful, full fridge is some psychological thing.

Also, I do have a bunch of seaweeds (not plants) in the cupboard.  And dried shitake mushrooms.  Maybe I will throw them in the fridge too so that I can see some green and brown too!  I do like the idea or dry food now, as it doesn't go bad ever, so I don't have to eat it right away.  I can just see at how pretty it looks in the fridge.

So how is the workout schedule going?  Lifting and anything else?

[William]

For me, it was 60+ years of crap food, and after a few years of paleo, then zero carb, the result of the Christmas pig out was a stroke.

Possibly explained recently in a post on the paleofood list Fri, 6 Mar 2009, subject It's the balance of fats.....

Insulin resistance is thought to be an important contributing factor to the modern diseases of civilization such as metabolic syndrome, blood lipid disorders, hypertension, obesity and type II diabetes.1 Although genetics play a role in insulin resistance, the observation that obesity and diabetes are increasing at alarming rates worldwide suggests that there are vital environmental factors that also need to be considered.2


Although carbohydrates play an integral role in insulin resistance by elevating glucose levels, there is also strong evidence that the amount and quality of free fatty acids consumed contributes to insulin sensitivity.3 It has been shown in rats that under certain circumstances, free fatty acids are required for glucose-stimulated insulin resistance. Essentially, when rats are infused with a high level of glucose, in the absence of fatty acids, the insulin response is non-existent.4 In contrast, when this occurs in the presence of high levels of free fatty acids, glucose-stimulated insulin resistance is extremely elevated. It was shown in these studies on rats that the amount of saturation of the fatty acid was also correlated with insulin secretion.5 The more saturated the fat, the higher the insulin burst. Thus, in rats, it seems that free fatty acids are vit al to produce glucose-stimulated insulin resistance, and, of these, saturated fats have the
 most detrimental effects.


Whether this occurs in humans was investigated by Vessby et al. (2001), who established that the amount and quality of fat in the diet could also be important for the development of insulin resistance in our species. A group of 162 healthy subjects were given an isocaloric diet high in either saturated or monounsaturated fat for three months. As in rats, insulin resistance depended on the amount of fatty acids consumed and the saturation of those fatty acids. When the amount of energy gained from fat was greater than 37%, it was found that insulin sensitivity was impaired in both the saturated fat group (-7.8%) and the monounsaturated fat group (-3.3%). However, when the amount of energy coming from fat was less than 37%, a significant difference was found with saturated fat still decreasing insulin sensitivity (-12.5%) and monounsaturated fat increasing it (+8.8%). Within the context of this study, it would seem that insulin resistance can be improved
 on a diet consisting of less than 37% of energy from fat, with this fat coming predominantly from monounsaturated fatty acids.

So it looks llike The Bear is right, carbohydrates really are poisons, and more so for some.

[igibike]

So it looks llike The Bear is right, carbohydrates really are poisons, and more so for some.

Sorry, I don't understand this point.

The baseline I undestand is:

If fat contribute is >37% insulin sensistivity tends to decrease a bit (a bit bigger is fats are saterated)
If fat contribute is <37% insulin sensitivity decrease (the decrease being bigger if fats are saturated)

This implies, to me, that carbs and fats (expecially the saturated ones) should not be mixed.

We are discussing a lot about that in our italian forum.

I'll post in my diary my winter experience (I think it's related to that).

[William]

I think that it depends on the state of the body, for instance in good health one can use some mixture of carbohydrates and fat, while in poor health zero carbohydrate is the best policy.

[igibike]

I think that it depends on the state of the body, for instance in good health one can use some mixture of carbohydrates and fat, while in poor health zero carbohydrate is the best policy.

I agree, thanks.

[Nicola]

Hi Andrew, how do you experience raw meat and fat and hydration? I am asking you because I believe you exercise quite a bit and must feel your system. Lex seems to be able or need quite a lot of water. I must be experiencing quite a difference because I just feel off/seasick if I drink more than half a glace full every now and then. I go swimming (as well as running, walking, riding, rebounding and a little exercise) and to much water just does not feel right. I feel the water can hit my gut/brain feeling and even cause loose stools.

So what, when and how much do you drink and how does this work for you?

Nicola

[wodgina]

Hi Andrew, how do you experience raw meat and fat and hydration? I am asking you because I believe you exercise quite a bit and must feel your system. Lex seems to be able or need quite a lot of water. I must be experiencing quite a difference because I just feel off/seasick if I drink more than half a glace full every now and then. I go swimming (as well as running, walking, riding, rebounding and a little exercise) and to much water just does not feel right. I feel the water can hit my gut/brain feeling and even cause loose stools.

So what, when and how much do you drink and how does this work for you?

Nicola

I don't drink as much as lex and both me and my brother (zero carber too) find you can over drink. I drink when i'm thirsty or bored. I prefer to drink after eating.

I don't really think about drinking that much.

[igibike]

Not drinking enough may cause problems during physical activity (tachycardia and loss of power) this is what a memebr of our italian forum experienced.

I strictly believe one shouldn't overdrink, but neither underdrink.

[wodgina]

On the spur of the moment I entered a a race today which I trained for and did last year. With no running  training since November last year I lost only 21 seconds on last years result (over 10kms) plus I went down the wrong trail and lost a lot of time and the conditions were a nightmare. Not bad!

I'm also fairly muscular even though I've stopped weights.

[wodgina]

Recently spent 2 weeks sleeping wild in a really remote area, found sleeping on the beach totally comfortable but man it's taken me a few weeks to get over all the scratches, salt water, insect bites and sun exposure.

Paleo people must of been unbelievably tough. I'm a big girl.

Still healing, also I had to resort to pemmican and I'm totally off the stuff since that trip. Caught some fish and supplemented with wild oysters picked off the rocks.

Also checked out Aboriginal rock art...it's mainly drawings of turtles/fish/sharks/people hunting and people with no heads. No drawings of fruit, medicinal plants or pemmican!

Anyone know why the people would be drawn with no heads?

[TylerDurden]

Anyone know why the people would be drawn with no heads?

Perhaps they were headhunters in the past!

[wodgina]

Recently completed a 2 km ocean swim after 6 months of learning how to swim with correct technique. Slowly working my way to attempt a half iron man next year.

Been cheating a whole heap and suffering the side effects! IBS I can't help it I just make sure the majority of food is raw meat/fat.

Had me first hay fever/eczema free spring of my life, last year was good but this year zero! I should be excited but I'm not, the misery of stuffed nose, shit sleep, staying inside all day and itching weeping legs quickly forgoten ha ha.....so it's taken 3 years of eating 95% RAW MEAT/FAT to cure my over active immune system. Just goes to show newbies looking for quick results don't always happen and that long term results are also worth the effort.

Seeya's

[livingthelife]

Recently completed a 2 km ocean swim after 6 months of learning how to swim with correct technique.

This is exciting! "Open water swimming" is a sport that we've investigated because pool water is so damaging. Some kids in a neighboring HS developed respiratory problems and lost the hair on their bodies because of high chlorine levels in the school's pool - I guess they didn't maintain it like they should have. We've been trying to utilize a natural lake nearby but found that it really does require a different set of mental skills because you can't see the bottom (with that handy line painted on it) and because the water is colder. Add waves and it's a whole new puppy.

We haven't been able to find any clubs or groups that train or do open water swimming events here. We have few bodies of water here and little creativity, it seems. There are clubs in a few cities and in coastal communities.

Is this a sport that is common in Australia? What certain skills are required and what was the experience of ocean swimming?

I hope your symptoms improve. Sometimes we have to stray to realize where we need to be   

Best always!

[RawZi]

RAW MEAT/FAT to cure my over active immune system. Just goes to show newbies looking for quick results don't always happen and that long term results are also worth the effort.

    Found same thing.  RAF especially fat is the only thing to cure my overactive immune system.

[Ioanna]

swimming, surfing, sleeping on the beach... your journal and photos you've posted seriously make me want to move to your part of the world! I suppose the grass is always greener...
 

Been cheating a whole heap and suffering the side effects!

Would you define cheating?... I think you're mostly zc, so I don't know if cheating is cooked meat, fruit or cookies

Does all this training mean that your workout time/intensity has  increased?  Have you noticed anything you need to change with your diet for this of do you keep (minus the cheating ) your nutrition timings and percentages mostly the same?

[wodgina]

LivingLife - yeah chlorine is bad, strips the hair of my legs and feel crap afterwards as opposed to feeling invigorated after swimming in the river or ocean! Open water swimming is very popular here as most of the population is on the coast and most kids get their first swimming lessons at the beach.

You need much different skills to deal with the waves, the deep dark water, spotting bouys, dealing with other swimmers kicking and clawing at you! the main skill required though is confidence in your ability.

and yes straying is a great way to realize where I'm supposed to be.

Ioanna - I cheated with my mums chocolate slice, then dark chocolate, then had biscuits, cheese etc etc lost all control, now I'm paying the price. I don't train much really and I eat a lot less than I used to say compared to two years ago. I just eyeball the amount of fat I want in my meat mix and thats it! eat until I can't eat anymore.

Rawzi- I agree (I think) but why has it taken 3 years and not two years? and my hayfever doesn't come back even if I cheat? How come IBS comes back with even one little  cheat? weird