Coconut oil

[RawZi]

My local market does have Artisana coconut butter after all. I tried it. It's OK, though it seems rather dry and bland. Could I have gotten an old jar? At least it doesn't give me nausea like coconut oil does.

    I have tried it when I wasn't raw.  I don't feel I can trust an item off an unrefrigerated shelf that looks like a cream to be raw and pure.

    Can you run mature coconut through a juice extractor?  Many of us do.  Maybe a local juice bar can do it for you if you don't have your own juice extractor.  Can you buy organic raw coconut meat nearby to do that?

    I have fermented coconut cream at regular room temp.  It worked fine separating itself from the oil after a while.

    I know coconut cream can act as a soap, and that's great for some things.  Otherwise, I seem to really do good with raw long chain fatty acids for my nutrition.

[Michael]

Yes, you could be on to something in that respect PaleoPhil.  If it helps with your constipation issues then it may provide a temporary role whilst your body continues to adjust to this WOE.

Thanks for the reminder RawZi!  I'd forgotten about the delicious coconut cream I used to make when I first got into AV's Primal Diet.  Have you tried this PP?  Could well be worth a try.  I've never tried fermenting the resultant cream from juicing.  Do you then actually dispose of the separated oil RawZi or consume both end products?

[Ioanna]

I made coconut creme a few times when I first read AV's books... it is the most divine food ever! I'd keep it in the fridge so it would be solid (no separation), but it's soft and then just melts in your mouth.

Unfortunately, I do better wo it though. 

As for the coconut creme concentrate (coconut butter), I'm not a fan of concentrated foods.  They (even pemmican) just don't do quite go right for me.  But if it works for you and you like, then enjoy! 

[PaleoPhil]

I haven't tried coconut cream. Maybe I'll try it some day. I don't have a juicer and I don't know of a decent local juice bar. I searched the Internet and the only one that came up is an afterthought added to a tanning salon on the other side of the next town.

[Ioanna]

making the coconut cream is quite the feat!.. at least i thought so, breaking open the coconuts and all.  it's so disappointing to open a bad coconut!  also, you have to put the juicer blade part in the freezer before use or it will get too hot too fast.  i even had to take breaks to put it back in the freezer to cool as it would get to warm from use after a short while.

[michaelwh]

making the coconut cream is quite the feat!.. at least i thought so, breaking open the coconuts and all.  it's so disappointing to open a bad coconut!  also, you have to put the juicer blade part in the freezer before use or it will get too hot too fast.  i even had to take breaks to put it back in the freezer to cool as it would get to warm from use after a short while.

What juicer do you use? I have an Omega 8005, and it does a good job juicing coconuts. I've juiced up to 5 coconuts in a single run. It gets warm, but not too hot. I find that the warmth helps the coconut cream flow.

[PaleoPhil]

I tried gently heating the Artisana coconut butter just to the point where it melted, but it still tasted dry and powdery/fibery. I'm hoping it's because it was old and that the 3 jars of it I ordered will be much better.

[Ioanna]

hmmm, i can't remember my juicer...

paleophil, i think that coconut cream (butter, whatever) is a concentrated product and therefore dry.  i tried something similar a few years ago and it made me want so much water it was so dry. it seems to take my energy instead of add to it, so i just never ate it again.  i wonder if you can add more oil to offset the dryness?

[sabertooth]

When I First started using coconut butter, I would melt it with a little ghee it make it smoother, It was   good ,   I just stopped using dairy alltogether so  phased out the ghee,     and enjoyed it a little dry

[PaleoPhil]

When I First started using coconut butter, I would melt it with a little ghee it make it smoother, It was   good ,   I just stopped using dairy alltogether so  phased out the ghee,     and enjoyed it a little dry

Dry? So you mean it's normally dry? Man, I hope the jars I ordered don't turn out to be as dry as the stuff I got from the market. It's like sawdust mixed into paste. And it's more bland and slightly sour like coconut oil than sweet. But if it helps my bowels I'll force it down.

[miles]

Instincts>you.

[sabertooth]

Phil

Well It may be seasonal fluctuations in moisture levels because I have noticed some jars have more oil than others, I have had some dryer jars but I have such a taste for thestuff I don't mind much 

But usually it can be heated over 80 degrees and stirred into a rich thick cream.

I just meant it wasn't as creamy without the ghee, I also added a little plane oil into it when I was about out and was trying to make it go further, without any negative effect.

I hope you do well from your order, I ordered a six pack and had it direct shipped and it was good.(try to blend it as soon as you open it, sometimes there will be an inch of oil that separates to the top of the jar and it needs to be blended back in to make it creamy.

I hope that your first reaction was just a detox reaction and if you let yourself adapt long enough, you may be able to benefit from the mild cleansing and nutrition provided by coconut butter.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks for the tips, Sabertooth. "Detox" is a vague, largely meaningless and overused term that is often found within magical contexts that are impossible to prove or (more importantly) disprove. What exactly am I supposed to be detoxing from a raw Paleo diet? Isn't this supposed to be a low- or non-toxic diet? After all, coconut butter is heated and refined more than raw Paleo foods. I think my reaction is more likely to be due to the high level of medium chain triglycerides in coconut fat. There's no need to reach for mysterious and ill-defined causes like "detox" when nausea is a very common side effect from MCTs for people who aren't used to eating them (see the article I linked to). If detox means nothing more than nausea, than detox it is.

Coconut oil gave me such bad nausea at one point that the taste is particularly foul to me and I currently can't eat it on its own, whereas I can handle the taste of coconut butter and incur less nausea at the same intake levels, so it may allow me to adapt to MCTs faster than straight coconut oil. Coconuts were not consumed by humans for 99.9+% of our history, AFAIK, and I appear to digest ancestral animal fats like marrow and suet better, but if MCTs can assist with my current constipation without incurring negative side effects, then that medicinal benefit makes coconut butter worth experimenting with.

Interestingly, based again on the article I linked to, MCTs may provide an alternative athletic fuel to carb loading, which would be particularly useful for people like me who fare poorly on carbs. So it might be useful if I could become adapted to MCTs.

[sabertooth]

Perhaps it is an issue with mct adaption, I had been using coconut prior to going paleo so was already some what adapted.

Coconut fats are processed by the liver and even if you are fully paleo, metabolic waste can still result in mild liver congestion, which may or may not be responsible for your issues, ,(its vague but plausible to consider that nauseousness could signify some type of flushing)  perhaps you just aren't MCT adapted and the undigested mcts that pass through the liver trigger a purging effect where a combination of the mcts and whatever else is flushed out with it could trigger nauseousness(vague but plausible)

I had yeast real bad prior to paleo and did a coconut oil cleanse, but had to stop after the third dose because the flushing was so bad(worst nausea ever), maybe flushing is a more appropriate term than detox, anyway I did feel some improvement , but since going paleo I don't think such drastic measures are necessary and now I rely on my meat, coconut butter, animal fat, egg yolk, and lemon water to keep me well.

I also do poorly on carbs and use coconut butter as an alternative fuel, it has some carbs that are very low glycemic and besides lemon water its my main source of carbohydrate. Now that I am adapted to this way of eatting I don't even crave any carb rich foods, maybee my body remembers how bad they made me feel. It seems to of helped me with ketogenic adaption early into the diet (it primes me for optimum fat metabolism)

[PaleoPhil]

I found a fleeting reference by KGH that "the MCTs in coconut" make "their first pass metabolism through the liver". I'd be interested in any original sources you have.

I also found in my earlier searchings coconut oil is supposedly absorbed into the bloodstream via intestinal capillaries:

"Coconut Oil

Short- and medium-chain fatty acids are absorbed directly into the blood via intestine capillaries and travel through the portal vein just as other absorbed nutrients do. However, long-chain fatty acids are too large to be directly released into the tiny intestine capillaries. Instead they are absorbed into the fatty walls of the intestine villi and reassembled again into triglycerides. The triglycerides are coated with cholesterol and protein (protein coat) into a compound called a chylomicron.

Within the villi, the chylomicron enters a lymphatic capillary called a lacteal, which merges into larger lymphatic vessels. It is transported via the lymphatic system and the thoracic duct up to a location near the heart (where the arteries and veins are larger). The thoracic duct empties the chylomicrons into the bloodstream via the left subclavian vein. At this point the chylomicrons can transport the triglycerides to where they are needed." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid

However, neither the liver nor intestine angle seem to explain the nausea I experience as soon as coconut oil hits my stomach. Perhaps some of it in some people can enter the bloodstream via the stomach as well?

Here's a thread on nausea from coconut oil where others chime in that it gives them nausea and some got used to it by building up slowly:
http://paleohacks.com/questions/7292/nausea-from-coconut-oil


I put the mixed coconut butter in a container into the fridge without thinking and discovered by accident that this makes it more palatable. It's still bland but the powderiness isn't quite as noticeable for some reason and it's less dry.

[sabertooth]

I often leave whats leftover on the plate and stick it in the fridge and snack on a flake or two between meals

What ever is the mechanism by which nausea is occurring we may not be sure
Is tolerance building and adaption beginning.

All I know is that for me it seems that a table spoon or two with meat and fat trimmings works great , it seems that the coconut butter boast my fat metabolism and keeps my energy levels stable throughout the day, If I just eat meat and fat I get an energy boast at first but then seem to drag after a couple of hours, the coconut seems to prevent this and I can keep good energy all day..

[PaleoPhil]

I finally received the shipment of Artisana coconut butter today. It looked fresh and somewhat more mixed, but it's still dry and powdery. I warmed it to mix it, but it was still dry, so I put it in the fridge.

[PaleoPhil]

After eating a couple tbsps of the coconut butter with water I felt full, didn't eat anything else and went to bed early. Big mistake. I was woken with some bad reflux. This never happens with suet or marrow, so I apparently don't digest coconut butter well for some reason. It's a little surprising because the WAPF says that coconut oil is the easiest fat to digest and claim it's a good one to start with for people who have trouble digesting fats, though I was already skeptical that it's the quite the miracle food they claim it to be. It doesn't make biological sense for it to be a better fat than the animal fats we evolved eating over millions of years.

[Michael]

It doesn't make biological sense for it to be a better fat than the animal fats we evolved eating over millions of years.

I agree.  Sure, for certain people who have developed an adaptation for coconuts due to environmental considerations it could be considered a very positive food.  But, for most, I suspect the miracle benefits so often alluded to are mostly illusionary.

Having said that, it probably does still retain some benefits for people in a state of functional health that can digest and assimilate it well.  I can tolerate a little oil and do notice improvements in my skin but, as previously noted, I do suffer nausea consuming even small quantities.  I suspect the 'butter' would cause me further problems too.

Glad to read of your experiences Phil.  Thanks for sharing!

[PaleoPhil]

After eating lard and coconut butter for a while I was feeling down in the dumps, quite fatigued and with mild stomach pains and nausea. The butcher at the local market finally had some suet and since eating that again I've rapidly been feeling more my old chipper and energetic self. When I eat some coconut butter again, it takes me back down. I can handle small amounts of lard with suet, but coconut butter seems to overwhelm the positive effects of suet. It's puzzling to me, because the WAPF and many coconut butter/oil advocates report that coconut oil is very easy to digest and that they get lots of fast energy from it. Perhaps I have some issue still in the stomach and/or liver that prevents me from digesting coconut butter/oil well.

Another bummer was that after the one day where the coconut butter seemed to loosen my bowels a tiny bit and the next day where it gave me severe diarrhea it hasn't loosened any further. It seems that it only loosens if I eat a lot of it and then it does it severely. There doesn't seem to be any in-between for me.

Do you think anyone would eat the remaining unopened jar of coconut butter I have if I gave it to Goodwill?

[Michael]

It clearly is not for your consumption Phil.  Yes, best give your remaining supply away.  If only I were closer!    I'm sure someone would love to relieve you of it.

[Ioanna]

lol, i don't think goodwill is allowed to sell opened food product.  better give to michael 

[PaleoPhil]

It's not opened and it has a safety seal, but my guess is that most lower-income folks wouldn't even know what it was (I didn't myself until learning of it from this forum).

[Alomonger Pete]

I'll soon be importing this brand of coconut oil.  I've searched long and hard and it is the best value for money:
http://www.therawfoodworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=1002879

[letsdoiteczema]

I got interested into VCO because I decided to try a 3-day VCO detox starting from today and will continue it if I don't suffer from unbearable detox reactions, in an attempt to rid myself of 5% eczema rashes.

1) Why does coconut butter or coconut oil never go bad?

- Coconut cream made from juicing mature/young coconuts have to be refrigerated or else it'll turn bad right?

- I would love it if one of these suppliers that claim to be using "Cold-pressed" or "raw" or "low temperature" methods to put up a real video recording of the manufacturing process. What is different from their manufacturing process compared to our "juicing" methods? that makes their product stay good for so long?! does not make ANY sense at all...

- I just saw that Mercola's Coconut Oil is a new product on iHerb.com and it claims to be "cold pressed". They can say whatever they want, since "raw" or "cold-pressed" have NO certification agencies!