High-Meat-Recipe Preparation For More Advanced RAFers

[Ioanna]

how many people here are consuming meat >2-3 mo? I've noticed it to be extremely different.

how so?

[TylerDurden]

I've noticed  a drop in effect of high-meat after many months of using it. I think the main effect results from bacteria stimulating the immune-system so that it wears out after a while.

[KD]

how so?

Well, for starters it doesn't seem to break down completely until about 9+ weeks. Prior to that you could still probably cut with a knife if you had to.

I've sort of warmed up to the stuff prior to that as far as taste, and much distress can be avoided just by tearing into even smaller pieces chewing with back teeth and avoiding the tongue as much as possible. once it goes past this point it is extremely intense taste and smell wise I find. I'd say pretty close or worse than coprophagia.

I also had some pretty nasty intestinal symptoms afterward as well, which could have been something else entirely, was short lived, and indeed felt 120% percent better since then. (puked up a bunch of clear gelatinous matter). So I wonder if it takes that long for the bacteria to mature fully or in quantity, as I've never experienced any other effect that I can surely pin down to the high meats, although I suspect they've been helpful with digestion improving an so forth. I did experience some euphoria, but I don't want to relive the experience just yet, even if it was possibly overall productive. For the time being I'm back to the other batch which is a few weeks younger, but pretty soon they'll be even further gone of course.

[Ioanna]

KD or anyone, would you post some progressive photos of your high meat?

[KD]

I've noticed  a drop in effect of high-meat after many months of using it. I think the main effect results from bacteria stimulating the immune-system so that it wears out after a while.

you mean once the immune system is healthy one doesn't experience as many positives from high meat? or that if the meat itself gets really old it doesn't stimulate as well?

[TylerDurden]

you mean once the immune system is healthy one doesn't experience as many positives from high meat? or that if the meat itself gets really old it doesn't stimulate as well?

nO, I merely mean that after continuous boosting of the immune-system, the body gets somehow used to the high-meat/bacteria.

[KD]

nO, I merely mean that after continuous boosting of the immune-system, the body gets somehow used to the high-meat/bacteria.

to me this reads like the first question, so i'm still confused. Are you saying you experience more noticeable effects (actually feeling high or other improvements) once you have healed, or less from getting used to it.

I'm trying to figure out why I don't seem to have any noticeable effects, unless i'm still misinterpreting it sounds like this means my immune system doesn't need the boost/stimulation whearas I think in traditional cultures, they might have more mood alteration due to having healthier/less sterile guts.

KD or anyone, would you post some progressive photos of your high meat?

I don't have progressive shots, but i'll try to shoot what I have soon. (lent out my camera)

[TylerDurden]

to me this reads like the first question, so i'm still confused. Are you saying you experience more noticeable effects (actually feeling high or other improvements) once you have healed, or less from getting used to it.

I mean I get less benefit after I get used to it. This takes several months, though. So, I  do high-meat in stages of 3-4 months at a time, with 2-3 months inbetween.

[KD]

KD or anyone, would you post some progressive photos of your high meat?

ok, these are not progressive and are all totally different containers shot on the same day (today). Basically you can see that the one that is over 2 months, is still basically not altogether different looking than aged meat. of course the taste is totally different, but tolerable. Although the other batch I have at 74 days I think starting getting nastier alot sooner and is indescribably more intense. It could be because it was buffalo, and the other two are chuck. The 2 pieces are the size I usually eat. If I was smarter I would have cut alot smaller as I usually have to pull this apart into thirds or quarters. I guess that is another difference you can't see visually with the second batch, it just sort of pulls apart and coats you hands with gunk. fun.

[Ioanna]

thank you KD!!

the 64 day photos look dry, but you're saying they are not? 

now i want to know what they smell like

[KD]

it was never dried but by dry I assume you mean not slug-y wet like the other. hmm. Its moist and tacky for sure, very brittle. I can't say exactly, but I know the first batch had liquid in it much earlier on, I'd say by 5 weeks. for some reason the pic makes it more normal looking than it is, but I don't know what is with this 2nd batch as far as not breaking down quickly, I know none of it was ever frozen to my knowledge. You can see the bits of fat in it so maybe that effects things. I can assure you it smells terrible. I tried opening it inside after I had already opened it up outside and aired it out, bad idea. I'm trying to think of a way to describe the smell especially on the oldest batch and can't make any comparison to anything. visceral.

[Ioanna]

I can assure you it smells terrible. I tried opening it inside after I had already opened it up outside and aired it out, bad idea.

lol, i'll take your word on that. thanks for posting!

[ontheroadnyc]

I figured out a quicker high meat technique that doesn't require weeks in the fridge.  I took the quart sized mason jar half-filled with meat and simply placed it in a 4.2 quart "clickclack" container which is airtight.  It only took 24-72 hours for the meat to turn colors and funky smelling.

I usually leave the mason jar/clickclack setup out of the fridge for 24 hours and then put the mason jar in the fridge to slow down the growth as it were.

I've had no problem whatsoever with flies.

Mason Jar inside Click Clack container:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4712051687_b277369757.jpg

Here's an amazon link for the Click Clack container.  I purchased it at Gracious Home a small department store near where I work in NYC.
http://www.amazon.com/ClickClack-303502-Airtight-Polystyrene-Canister/dp/B0023NVIN0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1276890756&sr=8-4

[KD]

It only took 24-72 hours for the meat to turn colors and funky smelling.

meat usually starts to turn and smell fairly quickly regardless...the advantage (I assume) to being outside of the fridge/house is with either with a more traditional container like animal skin, which were left outside for very long periods and did not need to be aerated due to the container, or some changes with sun and temperature. Its not totally uncommon I think to leave the container in the kitchen, just not very practical and you'd have to bring it outside to air it anyway. Nice system from minimizing contamination from bugs though, let us know how long it takes to turn to high-meat this way. It could also be growing bad bacteria without the needed exposure per acceleration through heat resulting in smell, and possibly danger. How often are you airing it out within that period?

[ontheroadnyc]

Hey KD, I air the meat at least once every 24 hours while aging it outside the fridge.  Say more about the "bad" bacteria you mentioned.

[KD]

Well, I have no experience with what you are doing so I can't say exactly. 24 hr might be plenty...or it might not be. I was more concerned you were leaving it outside for extended periods in summer heat and sun in a contained jar. In this thread you can see some mention of temperature and airing more frequently with higher temp, also there are pics to compare. The only thing I know is that the meat needs a certain amount of exposure to oxygen and that it might be altered with heat/sun. Its just like with regular meats: even in the fridge a complete lack of oxygen can be bad news for extended periods. I mean, my high-meat smells and tastes terrible, but I've had just meat I've left in plastic or glass in the fridge that have tasted way more toxic. Its hard to say what is good or bad with bacteria, but the standard is that anaerobic bacteria at least with meat, is not healthful, and is put at bay or destroyed by proper oxygenation.

[PaleoPhil]

Call me paranoid, but I don't trust plastic enough to put high meat in it, even a glass jar of high meat. I don't fully understand why the Inuit started getting dramatically higher rates of botulism and other forms of food poisoning when they started using plastic, and recent info has been coming out about how plastic is much more toxic than most people realized--especially clear plastics--and I try to keep things simple, so I think I'll pass on this one, thanks.

[RawZi]

it was never dried but by dry I assume you mean not slug-y wet like the other. hmm. Its moist and tacky for sure

    I've tried leaving meat out to get a little dry first and then bottling it to make high meat.  It didn't work at all.  I do not recommend it.  It's still edible, barely, and it's not biodegrading even though it should.

[Wolf]

I once bought some raw beef meat that was already in small chunks at the deli in my grocery store, which was probably the commercial grain-fed tortured-cow beef, though I have no idea but I'm pretty sure it was not grass-fed, and I am not sure if it had ever been frozen or not.  I began to eat it raw pretty much as soon as I got into my car after buying it, but then I noticed the meat began to obtain a brownish colour (like the high-meats in the pictures posted here) and also to acquire something of a rotten taste.. and I am now wondering if it had somehow become high-meat?  I don't know how old or for how long it had been sitting out at the grocery store.  I took the meat to be rotten, though, and stopped eating it raw, and instead took it come and tried cooking it to see if that would improve the taste(this was all before I ever found out about raw diets, I just always liked raw meat).. which was a huge mistake because it only made the taste worse and I ended up throwing all the meat away.

is it possible for meat to have become high or at least partially-high meat so fast?  especially if had been sitting out in the open air in the deli for the entire day?  (though kept in cool/refrigerated temperatures)

[ontheroadnyc]

Help!  I've been having trouble achieving high meat maturation.  I usually cut up some sirloin or london broil, put it in my large glass ball jar, then place that in my clear, air-tight dry food container (see link below) and it usually only takes a 2-3 days for it to get a decent "high" smell and then I put it in the fridge and it continues to age slowly.  But lately I've been doing this for a week and the meat is barely smelly.  I'm wondering if the meat I get has been frozen at one time thereby killing the essential baby bacteria that eventually becomes the "high" in high meat.

I'm buying grass-fed meat from Whole Foods, which they tell me has never been frozen.  Do you think they might be lying?  Has anybody had similar experiences?

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/msg37877/#msg37877

[TylerDurden]

Well, all I can say is that the very few times I tried frozen meats for making my high meat, the preparation failed. They got too dry or something.

[raw-al]

I am by no means an expert, Tyler but I wonder... the Inuit pretty much ate frozen meat (I am assuming) unless of course they had fresh.

My friend from Tibet says that they simply let the meat dry out and age. Nothing wrong with it drying out. He told me that the best part was when it turned blue.

[TylerDurden]

Well, the descriptions mention the Inuit eating the frozen meat, ice-crystals and all, so presumably it was usually fresh.

[Coatue]

Is there an optimal temp to keep the fridge at when making high meat? Also, is there a point where the meat becomes too high? In other words, can you only eat/age it for so long before it can make you sick?

[majormark]

^ I think that if you let it get 'too high', eventually, the bacteria will have consumed most of the meat and it would not remain much for you.
The idea of high meat is to consume a food with high bacterial count, but not just the bacteria.