Sleeping- Seasonal Nutrition and the "lights out" book

[Wolf]

Awesome explination Cinna, and I agree with you.

And, for me at least, whenever I go to bed and wake up at the same time every day I feel like crap.. I prefer to have a more erratic sleeping schedule, and like Cinna said, paleo's probably didn't have such sound sleeping schedules either.  But it seems just like no diet is the same for everyone, maybe no sleeping schedule is that same for everyone, either.

[pioneer]

I doubt that the majority of diurnal paleos tucked in at 10:00 pm and slept soundly (even on such a great RPD ) for six hours or so.

Maybe they wouldnt need that much sleep at all since the RPD diet takes care of most of recovery. Aajonus says he sleeps only 4hrs a night after being raw for 40 years

[raw-al]

Our bodies are conditioned to sleeping 7-8 hours or less like the length of darkness on summer night: so we always have insulin sensitivity and crave sugars because we think its summer. It seems like a far fetched theory to me but could be plausible. Sweetness however, is associated nutrition in nature. A prime example is sweet fruits provide many nutrients and vitamin c that prevent scurvy. Inuit and indigenous tribes that solely eat meat and no fruit get their vitamin c from adrenal glands (which happen to be the richest known source of vitamin c) and disperse individual portions to their tribe members. Also, raw meat in general contains vitamin C before cooking. C can also be found in stomach lining I think. I'm getting off topic, but does anyone think the sleep-crave theory has any validity?
heres the link to the book
http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Out-Sleep-Sugar-Survival/dp/0671038680

I agree with the theory about sleeping when it is dark. In the Inuit country of the Arctic Circle they actually do get a bit of berries in the summer with the long days. I visited there and nowadays is not comparable to what it was, as they have all the technology we have, but the people tend to sleep more in the winter because I asked some of the locals that question. In the summer I was out for a walk at 04:30 and I bumped into a bunch of kids out playing. (Inuvik NWT Canada 63 degrees North)

[ster546464@yahoo.co.uk]

Maybe they wouldnt need that much sleep at all since the RPD diet takes care of most of recovery. Aajonus says he sleeps only 4hrs a night after being raw for 40 years

aajonus eats bread, His definition of raw is 80 per cent raw

And Paul Nison wrote a similar book about daylight eating, adrenals, exhaustion stress, and light, and light's role in health

[pioneer]

aajonus eats bread, His definition of raw is 80 per cent raw

And Paul Nison wrote a similar book about daylight eating, adrenals, exhaustion stress, and light, and light's role in health

No he does not, he hasn't for decades. This topic has already been beaten and battered in this forum. He is 100% raw. Maybe you got it mixed up with his endorsement of cooked starches for people who crave them. But he certainly does not eat bread himself.

[ster546464@yahoo.co.uk]

4 hours sleep doesn't mean anything

so did margaret thatcher, i doubt she ate raw paleo

[raw-al]

4 hours sleep doesn't mean anything

so did margaret thatcher, i doubt she ate raw paleo

There are people who get by on very little sleep. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was one and I doubt if he had a piece of meat in his life. Some people catnap or powersleep or whatever you want to call it.

I suspect that it helps to be very healthy to do it without problems.

[raw-al]

Pioneer,
I finally got hold of that book at the library "Lights Out". He tells quite a compelling story. Thanks for the excellent read.

One interesting thing he says is that we are all offspring of people who have managed to live in the current (NPI) environment where lighting and carbohydrates are everywhere and so staying awake is possible. I suspect that being a night owl in a non-electric society would have been a non-issue/ challenge. It's one thing to stay up all night on the computer or driving around town or working or watching TV or whatever, but unless you have developed excellent vision, roaming around in the dark can be challenging.

His story about the native Americans being one of the last to adapt to carbohydrates and electric lighting makes perfect sense.

Personally I know that flying in the nightime is fraught with danger. Particularly all nighters. I feel for the airline guys who go across the pond at night. They are not bangin on all four. I don't care what anyone says. I have gone on medevacs at night and been on approach when I have to pinch myself and keep talking, moving and have the other guy verify information/settings. Touching down is like being allowed to breathe again. Throw in an emergency..... A brief look at nightime accidents tells the story instantly... The guys were brain dead, long before their body followed suit. Same with doctors working 48 hour shifts. That is nutty.

I am starting to plan my life so I am asleep after dark. To me it's like putting money in the bank.

[pioneer]

Glad you liked the book raw al. It made perfect sense to me. One thing I liked that the author said is that our pacteria get pissed off if we dont sleep and that as soon as we begin to sleep, the LPL bacteria shuts down and our immune system can recharge throughout the night.  I can attest to this, for whenever I get very little sleep, I usually wake up only to have stomach pains and diarrhea. I feel that making healthy stools is directly related to sleep and the bacteria that rest while you sleep.

[ster546464@yahoo.co.uk]

I was interested in this because I came form a family where they would watch tv til about 12 at night.
it definitely affected my sleep patters.

I read all bright light 3 hours before bed overstiumaltes you, causes stress to the body, and thus causes adrenal fatigue, which in turn will cause thyroid problems etc.

Keep it simple, if its dark outside, use dim lit lamps in your house, not bright overhead ones which trick the body.  or use candlelight. keep computer and tv use to a minimum, and try not to before bed. be aware how artificial light affects health. Also, paul nison said that whenever light enters the eye, it triggers something in the body to keep digestion going, when you shouldn't be eating.

[pioneer]

I was interested in this because I came form a family where they would watch tv til about 12 at night.
it definitely affected my sleep patters.

I read all bright light 3 hours before bed overstiumaltes you, causes stress to the body, and thus causes adrenal fatigue, which in turn will cause thyroid problems etc.

Keep it simple, if its dark outside, use dim lit lamps in your house, not bright overhead ones which trick the body.  or use candlelight. keep computer and tv use to a minimum, and try not to before bed. be aware how artificial light affects health. Also, paul nison said that whenever light enters the eye, it triggers something in the body to keep digestion going, when you shouldn't be eating.

Yeah, its called melatonin its a powerful hormone that is secreted when you sleep, and its not just entering the eye though. There is this phenomenon not yet understood, but when you are sleeping, with your eyes closed, your pituitary gland (where melatonin is produced) in your brain knows when it is light or dark. Studies were done on brainwaves and melatonin levels while sleeping. Apparently, even that little nightlight in the corner of the room affects melatonin. Also, something as simple as having your computer on in your room while you are sleeping can effect melatonin because of the electroradiation. I cant sleep well unless the room is completely dark and no computer is turned on. Some people will go as far as cutting the power to their house. Nevertheless, empirical evidence shows that this is very effective.

[raw-al]

Pioneer,
I tried going to bed a lot earlier last night and felt great. I think your idea was spot on.

[miles]

Yeah, its called melatonin its a powerful hormone that is secreted when you sleep, and its not just entering the eye though. There is this phenomenon not yet understood, but when you are sleeping, with your eyes closed, your pituitary gland (where melatonin is produced) in your brain knows when it is light or dark.effective.

Is it not just that light passes through the eye lid? I can close my eyes and still see when someone turns a light on/off.

[pioneer]

Is it not just that light passes through the eye lid? I can close my eyes and still see when someone turns a light on/off.

That is true, but that is also along the lines with what I am saying. When your eyes are closed, your body can sense even if there is a little light in the room, and even when you are unconscious or sleeping. I meant that the light can travel through your closed eyes and signal to the pituitary to suppress melatonin and also disrupt brain waves such as alpha, gamma, and beta. By all means, you could sleep great in a bright room with one of those eye covers. i use one every time I go on a plane. The best and most natural alarm clock is light. I am one of those people who does not wake up easy to sounds, but when there is even just a minute amount of light, I wake. I think this is how it is supposed to be. This is why the most important thing must be to keep the room as dark as possible. Get some of those drapes that block out 100% of light. This is the only way we can get good sleep if we stay up too late. if we cant abide by light and dark cycles of the sun, we have to create our own. I go to bed at 12am every day and wake up at 8:30 or 9, but I never wake up from the sun, which rises at 6, because I have those great drapes.

[pioneer]

Pioneer,
I tried going to bed a lot earlier last night and felt great. I think your idea was spot on.

Thanks, glad it helped. Sleep is the #1 factor in physical performance, probably mental performance too. It is said that from 2-4am your hormones recharge, other parts of the night recharge immune system, psychological and physiological functions, but I forget what times. This is why it is imperative to go to bed sometime before 12. Now if you create your own dark environment, which you can ensure at least 8-9 hrs of dark sleep it may not matter, and Im sure the times may vary (i.e. your 3-4am, might be another persons 2-4am). Plus, I think the studies were done with people who went to sleep at 10pm, but I could be wrong. More and more recent research on sleep suggests that we really need to be getting to bed by 10pm, but Idk.

[miles]

Hm. It would've probably been done for people who are starting work at 9am I suppose.

[raw-al]

I have not finished the book but he mentioned that there was a study done in which the pointed the light from a fibre rod at the skin behind the subjects knee and the melatonin production dropped quite a bit even from this small amount of light.. So he says that any source of light in the room including electronic doo dahs will affect your health. He also says a minimum of 9.5 hours of sleep from September on.

He says that in the summer you can eat drink and be merry but come the fall back off slow down and hibernate.

He says that cancer is a result of our lifestyle and he goes through explanations of the various forms of cancer and the reasoning behind the statements.

I am not a biological student so he lost me on some of his explanations but he made sense.

I am not sure I like all of his logic as he is a lover of supplements and a few other items but I think his overall theory makes sense. BTW I am writing this in the dark with lights and the computer on... tee hee hee : ) Off to the land of Nod with Winkin and Blinkin........

[pioneer]

raw al, I must say I envy your progress with sleep. I am a busy college student, who usually stays up til at least 12, so I am bad. I think I am going to really try going to bed at 11 and waking at 8:30 now. Thanks for letting me know about your devotion, it is inspiring me. Also, I have been feeling like horse poop lately because I have a girlfriend now, who actually thinks its cool I do raw paleo. Anyway, she keeps me up til 3am sometimes, I am exhausted. I guess I gotta man up and tell her I need my sleep.

[majormark]

... He also says a minimum of 9.5 hours of sleep from September on.

Why the exact 9.5 hours of sleep? How do you determine that? What if you sleep 9.4?

[raw-al]

Why the exact 9.5 hours of sleep? How do you determine that? What if you sleep 9.4?

That is a huge question which can only be answered accurately by reading the book.

[majormark]

That is a huge question which can only be answered accurately by reading the book.

I dont understand why you need a whole book to briefly explain how did he come up with that number.

This 9.5 thing is in contradiction with Aajonus theory that as one gets more and more clean, the sleep requirements should get lower.

[pioneer]

No, not at all, the premise of the book is you sleep mostly with the moon and are always awake with the sun. In other words, those long winter nights like 12-14hrs long, we should be hibernating, and those short summer nights like 5-6hrs long we should sleep, but be up and about the other 18 hrs. It is supposed to be a seasonal cycle. Sleep long in the winter and short in the summer. Sleeping long in the winter is especially smart because sleeping lowers our basal metabolism and makes us burn less calories, it is a way of not needing as much food in the winter when food is scarce.

[raw-al]

I dont understand why you need a whole book to briefly explain how did he come up with that number.

This 9.5 thing is in contradiction with Aajonus theory that as one gets more and more clean, the sleep requirements should get lower.

The world is full of theories. The belief that any author has a liplock on the truth is a bit inane. It's whatever works.

If I started to explain, there would be a chorus of detractors. Easiest just to tell you to read the book as that is what this thread is based on. I do not have the breadth of knowledge to explain his theory in a few short sentences. Neither did the two authors. That's why they wrote a book, not just a few sentences.

Pioneer answered as I was typing. Further to what he said, carbohydrates provides the fuel to stay awake but at a great cost regarding ones health because carbohydrates represent famine food.