Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:

[sabertooth]

It has been studied in animals; Those who have been chemically contaminated with  hormone disrupting chemicals will lose their drive to care for their young, and maintain normal behavior and relationships

DDT did not only cause the bald eagle to lay weak thin eggs, but it made them lethargic and apathetic in the raising of the offspring.

Who Knows how it effected the people who ate what it was sprayed on?
(suppressed by the PR machine)

Now that we have entered the age of soy, the danger is known, but there are no mainstream sources that can get the truth out there, Just like in the early years of DDT the danger is real, but not known.

Soy doesn't have to be sprayed, it is naturally toxic...

[pioneer]

I'll tell ya what, soy and flax are just about the worst lies in history. How can anybody stand up for this stuff? People tout that it helps cancer and heart disease what a load of shit. Last time I checked, it was estrogen that made the growth of cancer rapid. And since estrogen breeds fibrosis, it gives you a heart attack.

[sabertooth]

of coarse soy and flax are no good they try to warn you with their horrible taste.

ever try a raw soybean yuck


only now with modern processing and the contaminated taste buds of the masses, it is passed off as food


When I was in school soy burgers and soy pizza was a main staple of the school lunch program(criminal)

AT first I couldn't eat eat the burgers, they were nasty, the soy cheese pizza was spiced up with additives,so was tolerable. ( everybody ate it)

Millions of school children like myself was fed this stuff in order to save on cost.
I prey that it is not something more sinister
Like an evil plot to cull the population.
This stuff makes young people more passive and easy to control
Lowers ambition and diminishes disire for sexual conquest.


We cant be the only ones who know this.

If the vegans want to be ignorant of the reality then so be it.

But GOD  ;who would knowingly feed this to millions of school kids on a daily basis, as a cheap alternative real food.

I have been a witness to this atrocity(no exaggeration)

I know that  5 soy meals a week might not do any medically noticeable damage, but it sets the stage for major issues If the food at home is of sub standard quality as well
 
How much toxic soy should be legal to give to children who cant possibly protect them self from the pushers at the government education camp.

It is up to thirty persent soy in some school meals.
The same thresh hold that can cause problems in test animals.
 

[Ioanna]

what's the scoop on flax?  I know I read they don't offer as much as marketing would say, but I did not know they were so bad?

anymore links I can use to educate a veg friend of mine about how bad soy is?

[goodsamaritan]

what's the scoop on flax?  I know I read they don't offer as much as marketing would say, but I did not know they were so bad?

anymore links I can use to educate a veg friend of mine about how bad soy is?

Start here http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

[wodgina]

Can a vegan fathers sperm affect the development of reproductive organs for male babies?

[raw-al]

My understanding of Ayurveda says yes.

[miles]

I don't remember where someone posted the phytoestrogen content of various foods, but does fruit contain a significant quantity of them(as well as nuts/needs)?

[cliff]

I don't remember where someone posted the phytoestrogen content of various foods, but does fruit contain a significant quantity of them(as well as nuts/needs)?

The highest fruits had like 300mcg per 100g, that was dried fruit tho.  Most the fresh fruit was around the 50mcg range, watermelon is 2.9mcg

Phytoestrogen content (mcg/100g aprox. 4 ounces)
  
 

Flax seed                  379,380
Soy beans                   103,920
Tofu                             27,150.1
Soy yogurt             10,275
Sesame seed               8008.1
Flax bread                    7540
Multigrain bread    4798.7
Soy milk                    2957.2
Hummus                       993
Garlic                        603.6
Mung bean sprouts         495.1
Dried apricots                 444.5
Alfalfa sprouts                 441.4
Dried dates                329.5
Sunflower seed                216
Chestnuts                        210.2
Olive Oil                        180.7
Almonds                        131.1
Green bean                105.8
Peanuts                        34.5
Onion                         32
Blueberry                         17.5
Corn                                  9
Coffee, regular                 6.3
Watermelon                 2.9
Milk, cow                         1.2

Fruits        
Dried prunes            177.5    183.5
Peaches                     61.8    64.5
Strawberry             48.9    51.6
Rasberry                      37.7    47.6
Watermelon                 2.9    2.9

[pioneer]

Yes, I posted that. It was a study done in canada a few years back measuring the lignan and soy content in various foods. Many foods have estrogen in them, but to my understanding, it cannot affect you much unless it is above 100 ng/dl per 4 ounces. Personally I try to stay away from all estrogenic foods, but the main culprits are obviously legumes, beans, nuts, and seeds as they are all little uterises. The opposite of eating those foods would be to eat pollen or little sperm, sounds gross to say, but it does raise testosterone. Its too bad the testosterone raising foods are not staples like soy is. It is known that in certain areas of china, maca root has been made a staple and people in these areas have high sex drive and reproductive success. The males also grow strong and muscular and the females never get breast cancer or any for that matter. The females are known to be beautiful.

I know I've said this before, but I hate it when people talk of estrogen as a female hormone and testosterone as a male hormone. It just so happens that females have more estrogen and males have more testosterone, but it does not mean they belong to 1 single sex as a category. I hate categorizing hormones because when I am talking to female friends of how bad estrogen is, they always think I am sexist because I am demonizing a "female" hormone. Truth is, excess testosterone is indicative of youth and excess estrogen is indicative of disease, old age and death for both sexes. No, you dont want low estrogen necessarily, you want balanced estrogen.

Another thing I find interesting is that men would not have any estrogen at all if it weren't for the aromatase enzyme (enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen). Women however, make estrogen in their ovaries and testosterone in their adrenals. How interesting.

[maxscan]

Hi Pioneer

When you say 'it cannot affect you much unless it is above 100 ng/dl' that would equate to above 0.1 mcg per 100 ml (4 oz approx) - is that right? If so everything on that chart is looking pretty scary! Hopefully I've got my calculation confused!!

[pioneer]

I believe that is correct, but I have to do the calculation as well first.

[Raw Kyle]

Those numbers are correct. A nanogram is 10^-3 grams and a deciliter is 100 mL.

[Raw Kyle]

As per the chart estrogen content drops dramatically from soy beans to soy yogurt to soy milk. What about fermented soy products like miso paste and soy sauce? Those are pretty much the only soy products in my diet, I eat miso soup at Japanese restaurants sometimes and soy sauce with sushi and sashimi.

[pioneer]

The problem with fermented soy is that much like other grains, you can never get rid of all the toxins. They found that much of the toxins in grains can be eliminated through fermentation. However  the estrogen is never eliminated from soy, not even lessened. Im afraid the sad story of legumes, seeds, and nuts being full of estrogen means that we should stay away from them. When I am talking to normal people who dont know raw, I tell them to stay away from soy before anything else, even grains. Now when you say you eat soy only once in a while, that is fine, and the estrogen is not going to make a huge effect. It is in my nature to be as much of an alpha male as I can and to have as much raw testosterone as I can without estrogen holding me down.

Hi Pioneer

When you say 'it cannot affect you much unless it is above 100 ng/dl' that would equate to above 0.1 mcg per 100 ml (4 oz approx) - is that right? If so everything on that chart is looking pretty scary! Hopefully I've got my calculation confused!!

So many foods have estrogen in them that it is normal to be consuming it a lot. William Wong, ND, PhD, is a brilliant man and tells people to strive for foods less than 100ng/dl per 4oz. But that doesnt mean you can consume these foods in excess either. I am trying to spread awareness to everyone that our society is hugely estrogen dominant and has too much emphasis on yin type foods and not enough emphasis on yang type foods. We need our testosterone dominant males back. Having low t at age 30 has become the norm, however back 100 years ago it was normal to hit andropause at 70! This tells us that we men are all in for a rude awakening if we dont get our acts together nutritionally and with pollution avoidance.

The funny thing is that simply switching to a diet of only organic foods is half the battle. Studies of mid 20 yr old male sperm count were done in 1938, and again in1988. The norm in the 60's was 120 million sperm/ml to 50 million sperm/ ml in 1988. That is a drop of over half! Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agYrs8vnIJU
The men who ate organic food had normalized sperm levels. The control groups were still at 50 million sperm/ml.
Here's another study of sperm abnormalities and increased double heads resulting in birth defects http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a904489039.

[sabertooth]

Its elementary really( organic foods promote alpha level sperm counts)

We are only as healthy as the soil our food is grown on.

Estrogen rich foods are like icing on the cake when it comes to the genocide being committed against  alpha males and females.

The initial phase was initiated in our grand parrents era with the beginning of wide spread use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers on the food crops, (most pesticides also have hormone disrupting effects )

Then it ratcheted up a notch with vaccination and fluoridation(fluoride is not only put in toothpaste and tap water it is sprayed on the crops and is extremely toxic)It distroys health vitality and virility of every animal its tested on. In amounts commonly ingested by children.

Before the soy generation was born they had already been epigeneticaly doomed to inherit the damage done to them by three generations of ignorance,(like in the animal studies were the third and fourth generations are sickend an infertile after the genetic damage was passed down)

That's why I blame the low testosterone and sperm counts on the entire industrialization of the food supply.

Cheap Assembly line production is good for machines, but food needs to be raised by a humane hand and a keen eye or else it is easily corrupted and contaminated

The organic studies do give some hope, and I truly believe that our genetic codes have mechanisms of repair, so that as long as we can maintain fertility and revert to our evolutionary diet, within a few generations these trends can be reversed and one day my grand children will breed like rabbits and embrace to the full extent what it is to be a "real Man or Woman".

I will make it my mission to not allow my grandsons to be biochemically gelded.

[pioneer]

Im doing what I can for it, writing a book and all. Its basically going to be why we should be like animals in the 21st century. Trying to even get it published. Anyway, everyone needs to speak up about this if we want change. We need to vote with our dollars, and thats how we will win. Ultimately, it is where the money is. Thats why if we stop feeding into the bullshit pharma and food industries, we'll get what we want through consumerism. But yes, all of your points are correct sabertooth, and this topic is what most interests me.
If only we could make a staple crop such as maca root instead of soy, many problems would go away. Just sucks how 3/4 of our food are corn, soy, and wheat. We desperately need new testosterone promoting staples. Pollen is good too.

Why hasnt Pottenger's studies been taken more seriously. I mean scientists have been debating for decades on how fast our genes change. Isnt pottenger's cats a clear example?

[sabertooth]

Scientific health studies are usually, only taken seriously If the evidence is pointing toward the yellow brick road

There just is no money in proving that cooked food damages future generations, the Money men only want to benefit humanity if it can give them something in return.

I have made my own back yard studies and have confirmed with my hillbilly committies about how Feeding chickens meat will turn the males into warriors, while grainfed birds tend to be more docile.

I free range chickens and have allways found that roasters that eat meat are allways king cock over grain fed counterparts.

I had a roaster(a docile breed) That would eat dog food, meat scraps and bugs , very little grain, He quickly came to dominate the other to males that didn't have access to the dog food(premium brand no soy or corn}Something killed the other two roasters and finally my wife got tired of hearing it in the morning so I gave it to my Friend with two hens. It began to play fight with his dog and eventually became so territorial that it would attack anything so he gave it away;

to a man with some prize(grainfed Roasters that lived their entire life in a pin(domesticated).The first night My roaster was put in that pin he killed both males and began to breed the hens.

People aren't very different, If you keep them pined up and feed them a bunch of grain they become weak and domesticated. If you feed them meat and let them run free they become warrior nomads with a lust for conquest.

The ancient rulers knew this

In feudal times it was often forbidden for the peasants to hunt, and they had to pay taxes to the nobles who feasted on meat, while they themselves ate bread and suffered.

What makes you think the technocrats that oversee modern food production don't know what they are doing

Does anybody think that the TOP FDA scientist and big Agra business (MONSANTO) doesn't Know that using soy wheat and corn as a staple for the majority of the population is going to have harmfull effects?   Really..

Did the people of the land Join together and agree that we should genetically alter a toxic nasty tasting bean and put it into all possessed food and add it to all baby formulas                                                

Yes even non soy formulas have soy oil as a main fat source. Really

Are we men or are we chickens

[Raw Kyle]

Im doing what I can for it, writing a book and all. Its basically going to be why we should be like animals in the 21st century. Trying to even get it published.

Hate to tell you but it's already been done: http://www.antiestrogenicdiet.com/

[raw-al]

I had forgotten about it but in one of my Ayurvedic books, (it may have been Vasant Lad) said that when a woman is menstruating, the husband should take over the cooking duties to give her a rest partly and partly due to the hormones that come off her hands and into the food. Also this was particularly true if there were young boys (teens) in the family as the hormones would cause confusion in them.
The book that I read would probably have been published 30 years ago at least.

[pioneer]

Hate to tell you but it's already been done: http://www.antiestrogenicdiet.com/

I've known about this book for a long time and even skimmed through it. Mine is going to be much different, but have some of the same in it as well. It is ok though. I mean there are like 20 books out there by malcolm kendric, uffe ravnovski, and many more authors on the topic of why cholesterol is your friend and not bad, so mine would be adding to the one you mentioned. There is also a book like mine I think called living healthy in the 21st century. I am a writer and have always been so Im gonna put it to good use and help others. Im going to give it out for free online first as an ebook, then if many people like it, I might try to get it published.

[sabertooth]

There is nothing new under the sun

With billions of people having trillions of thoughts its hard to be truly original,

The task at hand for those with the motivation, is to compile the knowledge in a creative way that Will set fires in the minds of men, and prompt into positive action, people who would otherwise be inept.

Everytime I make a personal discovery of some universal truth, I quickly find that once I google it, It was known by someone else all along ; completely independent from my own research.

So let it be written and let it be done, with a passion that will drive others to find a higher calling; its the pioneering spirit.

[pioneer]

Thanks sabertooth. The way I feel is that some people may have wrote books on the same stuff I'm writing on, but they didn't get people's interest because of many variables including too much technical jargon, or horrible writing. I am a writer and plan to make my stuff so easy to read an 8th grader can read it. However at the same time, my stuff will still include the scientific side with thorough explanations for the average person. What a lot of writers lack is flow. Ive noticed when reading a book some writers don't accentuate one point and move on. They jump around and reiterate what they said over and over with redundance.

[raw-al]

Good luck  pioneer!

Each writer has their own style and their own audience. The more books the merrier because each book has a dynamic force behind it and a book is really a calling card for the author.

When the student is ready, the teacher, (ie you Pioneer) will appear.

[pioneer]

Haha, yes I do consider myself a lifelong student, thats why even if I ever was a doc or anything prestigious I wouldnt have a chip on my shoulder like many do.