Bras are not paleo. Tips for modest bra less clothing.

[Cinna]

A couple months ago, inspired by Patricia Bragg, I stopped wearing bras on May 12, 2010. It was a revelation.  I still like the light support of a chemise/tank top/bralette/camisole, but I'm over wearing padded/push-up/underwire contraptions. If working out (when that ever happens), I might wear a bra for extra support. Also fascinating/revelatory/pure dead brilliant to me was the idea that, contrary to popular belief, going bra-free does not contribute to sagging breasts - but rather, firms breasts up (the idea being that bras hold up the girls and let the muscles off the hook; i.e., weaker chest muscles, more sagging - something like that).

Around the time I ditched bras, I found this website: http://www.007b.com/breast_gallery.php

It has a huge gallery of "normal" breasts (also some pix of "not normal" breasts). This gallery was a huge eye-opener for me. Even at 34, I had no idea what normal breasts really look like! I was really glad I found this site. I'm small and asymmetrical, but after seeing the great range of healthy normal breasts, I love my boobs because they are natural and healthy - perfect with me. Breast implants seem commonplace in my area (Southern California), but cosmetic surgery is not for me.

I haven't read "Dressed To Kill: The Link between Breast Cancer and Bras," but here is the Product Description from Amazon.com:

Product Description
Singer and Grismaijer have collected striking evidence that bra-wearing may be a major cause of breast cancer: women who wear tight-fitting bras 24 hours a day are 125 times more likely to have breast cancer than women who do not wear bras at all. Their interpretation is that tight clothing inhibits the proper functioning of the lymphatic system (an internal network of vessels and nodes that flushes wastes from the body) and leads to a buildup of carcinogenic compounds in the constricted areas. Although their studies are preliminary, still controversial, and definitely need to be followed up with more research, this book should be read by anyone concerned about breast cancer. Possibly a very important book that could save many lives.

And finally, a treat of a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b-MQLRov24

 

[goodsamaritan]

There is a nice website called http://www.brafree.org

I will be raising my girls not to wear bras.

My sister in law's breast tumor got a lot better when she stopped wearing bras.

And for some humor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9eR1BtCj2Y

[Cinna]

Awesome link - thanks, GS! Great FAQs...

Also related to women's beauty/fashion, an article about high heels potentially altering anatomy (plus a reference to Carrie Bradshaw!... for all you SITC fans ):

http://health.msn.com/nutrition/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100261309&GT1=31036

[Alan]

sorry i don't have a citation, but a very old reference which i clearly remember is:   a German bra-making company advises women to measure the  _volume_ of their breast by the water-displaced-from-bowl-into-larger-pan method.

German company says:   anything lower than 125 cc - no bra needed.

This criterion possibly includes a large fraction of women in SouthEast Asia.

I would add my own observation:  the more conservative the locale, the less likely that even a teeny-tiny chested girl is to go bra-less.  A bra is seen as a token of being an adult woman.

[raw-al]

I knew a guy who started growing breasts. They were very tender and painful (mastitis). He went to an Ayurvedic Doctor (Vaidya) who did an exam and asked him about his diet. Eventually it came out that he had started eating lots of an herb, I believe it was either licorice sticks or fennel.  I do not remember the full story, but he was advised to stop eating it and the problem ceased.

Being a guy it is a bit difficult to relate to a bra but I know that I used to wear tight underwear because I thought boxers were for old guys. What a relief when I finally switched to boxers. I started to have prostate issues, so I guessed that the tight underwear might be causing poor circulation. They were.

[raw-al]

I haven't read "Dressed To Kill: The Link between Breast Cancer and Bras," but here is the Product Description from Amazon.com:

Product Description
Singer and Grismaijer have collected striking evidence that bra-wearing may be a major cause of breast cancer: women who wear tight-fitting bras 24 hours a day are 125 times more likely to have breast cancer than women who do not wear bras at all. Their interpretation is that tight clothing inhibits the proper functioning of the lymphatic system (an internal network of vessels and nodes that flushes wastes from the body) and leads to a buildup of carcinogenic compounds in the constricted areas. Although their studies are preliminary, still controversial, and definitely need to be followed up with more research, this book should be read by anyone concerned about breast cancer. Possibly a very important book that could save many lives.

Their description fits in perfectly with the Ayurvedic version of disease whether it be cancer or arthritis etc. Wearing tight fitting clothes is the kiss of death. The traditional clothing of India and various countries in the area are the best way to dress. Loose draped light coverings with no pressure points.
Women wearing high heels or men with cowboy boots need their heads examined. The anatomy is designed to be lined up properly. A string suspended from the ceiling should pass by your ear canal, the centre of your shoulder, the centre of your hips, the centre of rotation of your knees and the centre of rotation of your ankles. Anything else and you are causing muscles to be endlessly pulling and thus tiring you out and eventually causing pain and joint misalignment.

In the rush to sell Calcium etc. pills, people are told that osteoporosis is the reason older women lean forward. That's nonsense. Posture is the problem. It just gets worse over time. Runs in my family. I work on it constantly to straighten myself. I have succeeded.

[raw-al]

Barefoot isn't that practical but I have started in the last year to walk as much as possible barefoot and I noticed a couple of young girls in the neighbourhood doing the same. Toes feel so good stretched out.

[sabertooth]

I also think aluminum based deodorant used with lymph constricting bras can contribute to the development of breast cancer. There are lymphatic ducts through the breast tissue and under the arms .Aluminum based deodorant clogs the sweat ducts and prevents the natural elimination of toxins through the sweat glands, if you put on this stuff every day and ware a tight constricting breast hammock, as well as most women now days don't breastfeed 8 children through there fertile years, leaves the breast in a toxic congested state where cancer can thrive.( That's my 2 cents)

[Ioanna]

Do you think wearing shirts with 'shelf' bras or camisole is anything better?   

[Cinna]

Do you think wearing shirts with 'shelf' bras or camisole is anything better?   

Yes, I think those things are way better. And then not wearing cami/shelf-thing as much as possible when at home, sleeping, et al. It might seem foreign/uncomfortable to some women at first, but one could get accustomed to it quickly. It took me a few weeks to really get used to it and now bras are so uncomfortable to me, I can't wear one for more than a minute before I'm like, get this off me!

I think cami/shelf-things are very comfortable and supportive; I will wear them. They are nice.

[goodsamaritan]

Please post links to these products / clothing.
They may make nice gifts.

[Dwight]

So, where are the pictures of b00bies? Just kidding...



Tiger skin bras does sound sexy, not too tight, plenty of 'space', exposed back... hmm.. hope she's in heat... Meooww... okay time out.

So, is it recommended going Adam and Eve style?

[Brother]

I am going to show this post to my better half. Thank you very much. She insist on wearing bras with metal in them and it leaves pretty deep marks in her skin after a whole day. I just can't imagine that being healthy in any way. To me it looks like an invitation to destroying your bloodflow, the nerves in the skin. But due to her fear of getting saggy tits, I am just not getting through. I hope there is a special place in hell for the people who imposed upon all of us the body 'ideals' of today.

[Cinna]

Please post links to these products / clothing.
They may make nice gifts.

Good idea, GS - thanks!

Bralettes:
http://www.barenecessities.com/31-View-all-33-styles_catalog_nxs,31,style,79,sb,BA,pg,0.htm

Shelf bra camisoles:
http://www.herroom.com/shelf-bra,camsioles,583,015,10.html

"Shelf bra camisoles are camisoles that have a built-in wireless shelf bra. A shelf bra is an extra piece of fabric with an elastic underband (usually built into a garment) that provides light support to the breasts. Shelf bras support the bust through compression, which may have a flattening effect. However, shelf bra camisoles do provide light support, and they are very convenient to wear since the shelf bra is built right into the camisole.

"When wearing a shelf bra camisole, you don’t have to worry about your bra straps showing since the shelf bra is built right into the camisole! Shelf bra camisoles are also great for sleeping and lounging when you want some light breast support without uncomfortable underwires."

There are lots of different kinds of camisoles/camis: http://www.herroom.com/camisole.aspx

[yuli]

When I feel like wearing a bra here's what I do, I buy whatever bra I like, make sure its not too tight.
Then when I get home I carefully make incision where under-wire is inserted and pick out the under-wire! Taaa daaa, wireless bra!!!
I hate the plain/ugly wireless bras that are in stores, with this method you can buy any gorgeous bra you like and just make it wireless yourself.
Try this and you'll be happy that you can buy whatever bra strikes your fancy, instead of having a limited selection.

[yuli]

"Shelf bra camisoles are camisoles that have a built-in wireless shelf bra. A shelf bra is an extra piece of fabric with an elastic underband (usually built into a garment) that provides light support to the breasts. Shelf bras support the bust through compression, which may have a flattening effect. However, shelf bra camisoles do provide light support, and they are very convenient to wear since the shelf bra is built right into the camisole.

"When wearing a shelf bra camisole, you don’t have to worry about your bra straps showing since the shelf bra is built right into the camisole! Shelf bra camisoles are also great for sleeping and lounging when you want some light breast support without uncomfortable underwires."

Just wanted to also add be careful when buying these built in bra tanks, I had two of them where the "support" band way way too tight. And a tight band right under your boobies ain't a good idea. Just make sure you try them on first...
As for sleeping I think its best to sleep topless, they don't need that much support, give your boobs some fresh air 

[goodsamaritan]

Wearing a bra is like wearing a cast on your arm. The muscles and ligaments will atrophy over time, and be very weak, resulting in pain and discomfort when resuming normal activity. Actually, humans have only worn bras for the last 100 years or so.  http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-With-No-Bra

I want to raise a bra less daughter.  For her health.

She is turning 11 this December 2015 and I have opened the discussion with her mother that I want her to grow up bra less.

In this thread I would like us to discuss:

- where to buy clothes, what clothes, what fashion
- how to switch from wearing a bra to going bra less

[cherimoya_kid]

Aren't Filipina women usually pretty small in that way?

[Ioanna]

I try to be braless as much as possible, but with work and social outings feel I need to wear something or it would be unprofessional here.

I'm not so big, so I can get away with not much support. Typically I wear a bralette or camisole underneath a work blouse or shirt and it works well enough for me.

[goodsamaritan]

Aren't Filipina women usually pretty small in that way?

My wife and I are of different blood / racial lines.  If our daughter takes after my side then she could have cup size C. 

Urban culture here thinks nipple bumps on shirts are daring or may be sexually too appealing gawking or giggles from peers.

Islamic women here don't wear bras and panties under their well protected traditional clothes and my doctor friend says that muslim women bodies are so inspiringly beautiful during surgery because their circulation was not hampered by bras and panties.  This is inspiring.

I try to be braless as much as possible, but with work and social outings feel I need to wear something or it would be unprofessional here.

I'm not so big, so I can get away with not much support. Typically I wear a bralette or camisole underneath a work blouse or shirt and it works well enough for me.

Thanks, I will google for "bralette" and "camisole"... I did not know the words to search for.

[TylerDurden]

Bras apparently stop the lymph glands from getting rid of toxins, thus resulting in higher rates of breast-cancer etc.:-

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/breast-cancer-bras-lymph-nodes.html

We are currently cursed with truly idiotic social norms forcing us to be unhealthy in some way. I, for example, live in a European country where people just LOVE central heating, particularly the women, and so loathe me opening any windows in the summer. God, I wish I could live in a truly civilised nation like the US with decent air-conditioning. I always remember the wonderful feeling I got from experiencing the routine ice-cold arctic air-conditioning in Los Angeles airport all those years ago. It should be standard issue in all other hot climates. Cold air invigorates people, forcing them to work at a steadier rate - hot climates, otherwise, merely encourage people to become lazy and sluggish and have constant siestas during the hottest part of the day, judging from my own experiences in Spain, Kenya and similiar hot countries. Now, OK, if people want to close windows then fine, but then it should be socially acceptable for men like me(or women) to walk around in public with their top half completely naked in summer so as to avoid sweating. And what is this  Western nonsense about men wearing ties? They are a constrictive feeling like a hangman's noose, make men feel too hot, and are a nuisance to keep ironed etc.

I always remember statuesque  African and SE Asian women going around in very old photographs wearing nothing on top  above a grass skirt. Unfortunately, because of leering Western eyes on their breasts, they were forced to put on stinky T-shirts to avoid embarassment. Silly, really.

[dariorpl]

The temperature in the workplace should be set to accomodate the men, not the women. Men have larger bodies and more muscle mass, which produces more heat. Furthermore, men are expected to wear cumbersome business suits and other clothing that are really only ideal for cold conditions in most places, whereas women have much more leeway as far as what type of attire they choose to wear.

The problem is that many women want to be dressed like street prostitutes at work, and then they complain when the temperature is too cold on their exposed cleavage, arms, legs, thighs and feet. And due to their skin tight, super thin yoga pants and other similar types of clothing. They don't wanna put more clothes on, so they expect others to adjust to their preferences.

Because of their body composition, most women should be wearing more clothes than men, not less. But because both men and women put an emphasis on a woman's ability to be attractive to men at the workplace, this otherwise natural tendency is distorted.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, if women wore longer, looser and thicker clothes, bras wouldn't be necessary.

[sabertooth]

Is there any evidence that bras or some other fashion of breast hammock were used in paleo times....

When ever I think of Cave Babes, I always get a mental image of raquel welch in some animal skin get up, do we know for sure what they really wore?

Also there is the theory that breast size has increased steadily, in many subgroups, starting in the paleo period... where as before women where much leaner and had large obtrusive breast only when nursing, so they were not in need of supportive bras?

[eveheart]

GS, when shopping for your daughter, be aware that some styles of bralettes do compress the breasts. Camisoles are more like undershirts, with no compression. I prefer wearing a man's athletic shirt rather than a woman's camisole because men's clothing is cheaper and a-shirts can be found in good-quality cotton that washes well. You probably can find good girls' undershirts, but in the larger sizes when she grows up, good material usually means more cost in women's clothing.

[nummi]

By wearing bras the muscles-tissues that are supposed to hold up breasts naturally will remain undeveloped and become atrophied?
Similar as with wearing shoes with raised heels over years, and once trying to go barefoot or "minimalist", there will be some pain and discomfort for a while in the muscles below calves (and other muscles that never could work right before), until they catch up.

Also, wrong dieting causes weakness of muscles-tissues and excess weight. How much are breasts and related muscles-tissues affected by this? Weaker muscles-tissues, but heavier breasts...