Author Topic: Hunting  (Read 60131 times)

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Offline miles

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2010, 07:12:11 am »
Unless you live in a very remote spot, I would be worried about what the animal had been eating.

Maybe you could dig a ditch in your back yard and cover it with twigs and branches and then try to coax a deer across it by playing highway noises on the other side.
 ;D


Yeah.. I think I heard that's the reason why Islam forbids the consumption of pigs; because they used to be 'used' as 'cleaners', foraging the streets, so they would be bad to eat *shrug*. I also heard that the best mussels are found at sewer out-lets, but then they're 'filter-feeders' so I suppose they can dodge the bad stuff.
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Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2010, 10:34:46 am »
...and I happen to enjoy killing it as well. Sometimes it may suffer a hard death sometimes not. I just don't care.

When people say things like this it scares the crap out of me.  Not sure what else to say...

Offline Sully

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2010, 11:55:48 am »
...and I happen to enjoy killing it as well. Sometimes it may suffer a hard death sometimes not. I just don't care.
When people say things like this it scares the crap out of me.  Not sure what else to say...
Killing it is part of the hunt. So for me to say I enjoy killing it means I simply enjoy hunting, cause that's what hunting involves. Saying I don't care if it has a hard death or not, means if it happens it happens, if it doesn't it doesn't.

It's not like I am saying I like to torture animals and watch them suffer.

 :)

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2010, 05:35:43 am »
I wish I had a hunters mentality. I've been presented with animals as lovable for my whole life.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2010, 05:38:33 am »
When people say things like this it scares the crap out of me.  Not sure what else to say...

Do you think there is another animal that eats flesh in existence that doesn't enjoy the hunt as well as the meal? I see my cat kill things for fun all the time. It would be quite strange in my opinion that an animal would be adapted to eating flesh yet not adapted to find the hunt and killing enjoyable. Much like an animal not finding sex enjoyable, but being compelled to raise children, or feeling very hungry but not enjoying the process of eating.

Offline Sully

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2010, 08:26:56 am »
I glad you agree Kyle. Nice input too. :D

Offline jessica

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #106 on: January 12, 2010, 09:07:37 am »
When people say things like this it scares the crap out of me.  Not sure what else to say...

i agree this statement is pretty harsh, but i think the part about "not caring" about anothers well being, be it an animal, is the most scary because its the apathy and greed of the majority to choose their happiness(or what they assume is happiness, i call it laziness) over that which may be more beneficial to the health of our species and environment...it feels like the same sentiment to me atleast whenever i read something that seems so jaded

i also agree with the hunters mentality and the joy of the chase being just that.  it is thrilling to outsmart and animal, you get adrenaline to hunt, to be at the point where you are about to feast as well!  but even when clubbing a fish there is still that second of hesitation where i feel this huge emapthy for the soul and the life of the fish, because as was said, animals can feel joy as well and in this moment i am choosing my own happiness over theirs, so there is where i see it all tie in :/

Offline Sully

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #107 on: January 12, 2010, 12:44:15 pm »
I care about myself (also loved ones) and my survival before another animal's well being or so called respect.

No one here would think twice if they were starving and going days without food. No bear or lion would think twice about killing you if it was starving. Granted are minds and emotions are at a more complex level.

In order for something to live, something must die, whether it be plant or animal or micro organism etc. That's just the way it is.
 
Its not that the animals doesn't matter, it is my food, I want to live, I must kill for food. Enjoy killing and hunting it kind of helps don't you think?

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 12:53:56 pm by Sully »

Offline jessica

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #108 on: January 12, 2010, 09:33:24 pm »
yeah i could get into a huge philosphocal debate about how that mindset and TAKING FOR GRANTED that our minds can question and we can choose to be self-sacraficing is what is needed now for EVOLUTION, health and mentality wise....

i think having chose (chosen?) to go back to a more primal form of dieting, albeit just one step on the way towards excellent health physically and mentally, is what defines people who have evolved over those who are stuck at this instinctual level, who are starving and do not question the urge to hunt down a big mac...there are so many ramification of this act alone, eating a big mac, acting on impluse, that i would have to write a typical annotated rawpaleoforum reply to explain an justify ! which is way beyond my attention spans capability

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #109 on: January 12, 2010, 11:37:25 pm »
There is no big game to hunt in my country.

How about a trappers mentality?  I think trapping is more efficient in the jungle / forest.  Good for wild pigs.

How about fishing?  I absolutely love fishing.  The tranquility, peace of mind...
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2010, 02:20:23 am »
Surely you have wild pigs/wild boars in the Phillipinnes? That counts as big wild game. And I'm sure the fishing-industry isn't as damaged as elsewhere in the world.
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Offline gh2man

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2010, 04:24:38 am »
That would be my dream too.
Um..... ;)

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2010, 06:36:29 am »
The only reason people are even questioning enjoying hunting, or people that think hunters are evil, is because of the neolithic agricultural revolution. It allows us to sit around and type on computers and get food from the grocery store. And hence become sensitized to natural processes (death, causing death).

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2010, 07:17:31 am »
The only reason people are even questioning enjoying hunting, or people that think hunters are evil, is because of the neolithic agricultural revolution. It allows us to sit around and type on computers and get food from the grocery store. And hence become sensitized to natural processes (death, causing death).

I don't think that's it at all with the group of people on here.

...and I happen to enjoy killing it as well. Sometimes it may suffer a hard death sometimes not. I just don't care.
The part that bothers me is the not caring.
I understand that some kills will be more brutal than others but whether it was the way it was worded or the true sentiment behind the comment I found it too callous for my liking.

Offline Sully

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2010, 07:52:38 am »
The thing is, if I am hungry and starving, the last thing on my mind is whether the animal had a peaceful death.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2010, 08:27:47 am »
I'm not a hunter, so I won't criticize, but I like Eric's and Djr's thinking on this myself, and that's the sort of hunter I hope to become some day. It's a similar mindset to that of all the traditional hunters I've seen in documentaries, articles, books, etc., such as the Bushmen of southern and central Africa and the Chukchi of eastern Russia. Interestingly, the hunters of both these cultures, separated by thousands of miles and thousands of years, stroke a large animal after killing it and thank it for giving its life so that they and their children and tribe can live. I don't know if I'll necessarily do that, but I hope I'll maintain that sort of respect for the animal.

Traditional peoples tend to see prey animals as not just food, but as relatives with spirits. As equals or near-equals. It is only neolithic civilization that demeans animals into mere food products. For some reason, it baffles most vegans that traditional people would eat spiritual relatives like American bison, but it doesn't baffle the vegans that wolves would eat bison--even though the bison is more the wolf's equal than the human's. One comment that a Native American made was that modern people seem to think too much with their brains (such as when vegans say we shouldn't eat meat because we have brains enough to know it's wrong and unhealthy--both falsehoods) and not enough with their hearts/spirits.

One great evolutionary advantage to the traditional way of hunting and respecting animals is that it encourages tribes to only kill the minimum number of animals they need to survive and thrive. This probably became an important adaptation after Homo erectus and other proto-humans likely exterminated many of the megafauna and the megafauna started becoming relatively scarce (though no-where near as scarce as today--which is why we should be even more respectful and careful today, rather than less so).
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Re: Hunting
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2010, 12:14:11 pm »
This probably became an important adaptation after Homo erectus and other proto-humans likely exterminated many of the megafauna and the megafauna started becoming relatively scarce (though no-where near as scarce as today--which is why we should be even more respectful and careful today, rather than less so).

That's a theory. It's more likely that the megafauna were done in by one or more of the cataclysms described by McCanney, Velikovsky et al., and we should be more respectful of the astronomical lore of our ancestors.

Offline extralizard13

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2010, 02:46:15 pm »
Anybody tried hunting with an axlotl? There's a hang out with the archeologists at my local college every so often to try your hand a it. Very few people hit their very large, mammoth-sized target, LOL.

I've always been interested in weapons, spears and javelins especially. My dad was a great shot, could have been in the Olympics if he wanted to, but hates hunting (because he kills too easily--for his friends, it wasn't truly about hunting for meat, but shooting off a couple of rifles and joking around) and my grandfather had his hand at javelin throwing. I ought to find a place to practice. Although, I could just set up a target in my backyard to throw. I live on the water, so no worry about accidentally spearing anybody. I used to practice shooting pistols there with my dad (at the time, I was too small to handle a rifle--I was a teenager, but I'm a small person, haha).

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #118 on: January 17, 2010, 12:22:42 am »
That's a theory. It's more likely that the megafauna were done in by one or more of the cataclysms described by McCanney, Velikovsky et al., and we should be more respectful of the astronomical lore of our ancestors.
William, where do you hear of this obscure people? I've never heard of most of the people you cite.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2010, 12:29:06 am »
William, where do you hear of this obscure people? I've never heard of most of the people you cite.

They are not obscure.  They are the ones I keep harping about in the Catastrophism thread, Quantavolution and electric universe.

Velikovsky had the #1 best selling book in 1951.  He is famous.  Of course the new guys on the block have refined his works, improved on it.

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2010, 12:29:22 am »
William, where do you hear of this obscure people? I've never heard of most of the people you cite.
 Velikovsky is a nut who in the 60s/70s reinvented the whole catastrophism theory of evolution with claims that the planets used to bump into each other re changing orbits and other unscientific stuff. It's all very new-Age and in the von-daniken-mold re scientific rigorousness(ie none at all).
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2010, 12:50:03 am »
That's what history tells us...
And civilizations around the world said so.
Unless they were all smoking the same drugs.
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Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2010, 01:11:05 am »
William, where do you hear of this obscure people? I've never heard of most of the people you cite.

Its sort of similar to how most of us found raw paleo. Everything else mainstream did not work so we gradually started looking for answers elsewhere along the fringe and came up with a solution that made perfect brilliant sense and worked wonders for us. Yet almost nobody knows that raw paleo exists and almost no main stream doctors, nutritionists think we are all that sane.

A similar sort of phenomenon I think happens when we look at the creation of our universe. There is no actual evidence that black holes, event horizons or dark matter exists. String theory is untestable. The large Hadron collider isn't working as well we thought. There is no complete unified theory of physics. But physics is substantially different than diet in that general relativity is testable and makes remarkable predictions and we have yet to have a counter-example proving it wrong. But when there is so much controversy we look elsewhere and find others with different, possibly extreme views that claim to explain the universe much better than the current theories. 

The electric universe (thunderbolts.info),is perhaps the leading candidate right now from the alternative sites. I don't know much about it but the forum is fascinating and will lead you to the writings of Velikovsky, Halton Arp and others that are highly critical of the big bang. I suggest you read some of the threads over there if you are curious. Everything is questioned over there and anything is possible.

I am also reading Cosmos, by Carl Sagan one of most popular physicists of our time so I can feed myself information from both sides. Sagan even writes about Velikovsky briefly and even gives his theories a fair chance. Velikovsky thought Venus was spun out from Jupiter not too long ago and passed closely by Earth. Sagan gave him a fair review and mentioned that it was possible just highly unlikely.

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2010, 01:36:11 am »
If Velikovsky & McCanney are obscure (and my text editor says they are) then so are we paleofoodies.
This is a comforting thought. I like it.  :)

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Hunting
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2010, 05:05:04 am »
One great evolutionary advantage to the traditional way of hunting and respecting animals is that it encourages tribes to only kill the minimum number of animals they need to survive and thrive. This probably became an important adaptation after Homo erectus and other proto-humans likely exterminated many of the megafauna and the megafauna started becoming relatively scarce (though no-where near as scarce as today--which is why we should be even more respectful and careful today, rather than less so).

Thanks for offering this PaleoPhil.  This is exactly what I was getting at with my earlier comment.  Not in the mood to write a long post now though, as I'm recuperating from my first attempt at eating raw chicken (salmonella). Figured the bird would be fine, pasture raised on herbs and bugs, no crowding, butchered on-site by the farmer and not in an industrial slaughterhouse.  I must say a bout with salmonella raises a lot of questions in me regarding this raw omnivory thing, not sure anymore if I'm game to stick with it.

 

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