Losing too much body fat/weight?

[Coatue]

I'm beginning to weight lift on the RZC diet (which I just started) to put on some serious muscle. I already view myself (as well as my family) as being too thin (I lost a lot of fat but gained no muscle) and I'm concerned I'll lose too much weight. Have any of you had trouble in terms of losing too much body fat or weight while on RZC or Raw Low Carb? Is there a way of preventing further weight loss and guaranteeing weight gain (especially muscle)? I don't want to look emaciated/anorexic.

[quietmule]

drink a lot of bone broth..

oh wait thats not raw. shit i guess im cheating. =[

[needs_and_wants]

I too have problems with this, even though I regularly eat cooked starches. The only way I can keep a steady weight is if I keep my nut consumption up. If I quit nuts I lose the weight. I imagine fruit would help too, but Im not much of a fruit eater.

[raw-al]

Eat lots of fatty things and avocado and ditch things that have strong taste like fruit.

[quietmule]

I gained about 10 lbs in a month after I started doing half raw paleo. You have to stay constantly aware of when your stomach is empty so you can add more food in whenever possible. Timing your eating right helps too...what I do is...fruits first, then broth, then raw eggs, then raw meat. If I have to eat cooked meat I try to eat it towards the evening when I know I'm not going to be eating anything the rest of the night anyway, because itll stay in my stomach for 3 or 4 hours.

Also, do belly breathing after eating for digestion. it'll speed it up so you can eat more food.

I don't know though, it takes some energy out of me to eat so much. I'm 19, i dont know if eating constantly is suitable for an older person.

[raw-al]

To improve digestion/absorption you might consider a few tips on the act of eating such as:
Eat in a quiet, pleasing atmosphere
stop for a minute before starting to eat, close your eyes and consider saying a little thank you,
Only eat food that has been prepared by someone who loves you.
After eating consider resting for a few minutes (sitting or lying down on your left side) then go for a 20 minute walk to help the stomach mix the contents with stomachic fluids. This will make a world of difference in your digestion and elimination.

Generally it is not good to eat constantly as digestion requires a lot of energy and will tire your body out. Wait a bare minimum of an hour between meals.

[Sully]

You don't need to be massive. You want to have a functional body.
Looking like a giant body builder should not be ones goal. More for functionality is important. I stick to more natural movements.
I will make a video on what exercises I do soon. I like bruce lee's physique, he did it based on function not looks. Lean and mean and functional and brutal. Not massive
I like to put heavy emphasis on my forearms, they heal the quickest also.


 I want to look more like this..
http://www.hkcinemagic.com/en/images/people/large/dan_inosanto_et_bruce_lee_c371fad53508de0b9fb1e4e9d8db4790.jpg
http://blueswami.com/assets/EPG2/image.php?type=pic_large&id=1481
http://www.janesoceania.com/australia_europeans/aboriginals_1906.jpg

not this
http://www.flexbodybuilding.com/Bodybuilder15.jpg
http://www.posedown.de/meisterschaften/2004/2004-11_nabba_universe-madrid/pics/David-Griffith-Mr-Universe-Physique.jpg

[Wolf]

I agree, sully.
bruce lee > arnold schwarzenegger

As for losing weight, I've always been skinny/borderline underweight even when I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted on SAD.  I've lost some weight, too, after switching to this diet, especially when I just fasted for 2 days.  and I want to begin working out to build muscle, not to bulk up by any means, but I want to be strong(i've always been weak).  And then once I feel I am strong enough, then I also want to gain a small layer of fat over my muscle, too(mostly to bulk up my breasts, lol).. though I don't know how I will be able to.  I don't think eating a lot of fat makes you fat.  >>;

[raw-al]

Wolf,

Not sure that fasting is a great idea for everybody. Unless you have a specific reason it may be harmful.

[Wolf]

Well I used to fast for a couple days all the time on SAD without much bad effects.  However, this time it made me feel pretty weak and tired, so I won't fast again unless my body tells me I need to.  I mostly just did it to try and speed up the healing of my acne blemishes, but perhaps I am being over-eager.  I never had problems with fasting before though, I think maybe I just need more time to get used to an all raw diet.

[raw-al]

I agree, sully.
bruce lee > arnold schwarzenegger

As for losing weight, I've always been skinny/borderline underweight even when I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted on SAD.  I've lost some weight, too, after switching to this diet, especially when I just fasted for 2 days.  and I want to begin working out to build muscle, not to bulk up by any means, but I want to be strong(i've always been weak).  And then once I feel I am strong enough, then I also want to gain a small layer of fat over my muscle, too(mostly to bulk up my breasts, lol).. though I don't know how I will be able to.  I don't think eating a lot of fat makes you fat.  >>;

I was a vege for about 23 year and I was very healthy albeit I suspect that I may have had energy issues. I was a vege for spiritual reasons and I am still not sure about the switch, but I do notice that with the raw meat and dairy I have naturally gained bulk but interestingly not weight. My leg size has increased but since I like to bike it has become muscle. My food volume consumption has decreased substantially but there may be other factors involved. I used to eat till I was stuffed when a vege but I started sungazing last summer and my hunger decreased somewhat. I have never been heavy, always around 150 to 165 lbs @ 5' 10.5" .

Is the acne a recent development? In Ayurveda acne is essentially one of the many manifestations of undigested food running around the system. Chocolate is a common cause but other things such as a major diet shift (ie to raw) or junk food can bring it on as your digestion struggles to change gears.

[Wolf]

Well I want to put on more than just muscle, I want enough muscle to be strong, but not bulky, with a little bit of fat, too.  I don't want to be pure muscle. 

My acne is something I've been struggling with pretty much my entire life.  I've always had it, no matter what I ate or changed about my diet, and it's only been getting worse the older I've gotten.  Even eliminating candy and soda and fast food for months did nothing different for it.  It's been rather damaging to my self-confidence, and a cause for depression at times.  But having started on this diet has actually reversed it.. my acne had lately been spreading over my entire face and even onto my neck/chest/shoulders/back.  After starting raw, it's pretty much disappeared from my neck/chest/shoulders/back and is slowly but surely clearing up from my face, though I do still get a few small zits here and there, they are different from what I got before and much easier to deal with, and even sometimes start to go away on their own which never happened before.  I am just impatient to rid myself of this plague which has cursed me for my whole life, I want it gone already, so I fasted to try to clear it up faster.  It did seem to have helped a little bit, but not enough to be worth as weak and tired as I felt on the fast, so I won't be doing it again for that reason, despite how much I really just want this acne to be gone.

[Coatue]

Yeah I'm deffinitley finding im getting too skinny on this diet. Idk what that means from a health perspective but from an appearance perspective...I've been told I'm starting to look like holacaust victim. And i agree as my ribs are beginning to show. This makes sense though as when you look at wild animals or grass fed animals, they're incredibley thin. I know a few dog breeders that tried to raise their  dogs on a raw meat diet and they have the same problem...the dogs end up being way too thin.  I'm trying to implement balance, thus maybe I should consume an 80/20 raw to cooked ratio? Its seems to be easier to put on weight with cooked food.

[raw-al]

Coatue,
Are you consuming fats of some variety? Say animal, or vegetable such as avocado or dairy such as butter?

[raw-al]

Wolf,
Have you tried the high meat?

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah I'm deffinitley finding im getting too skinny on this diet. Idk what that means from a health perspective but from an appearance perspective...I've been told I'm starting to look like holacaust victim. And i agree as my ribs are beginning to show. This makes sense though as when you look at wild animals or grass fed animals, they're incredibley thin. ...

I know what you mean. Even though I weighed less when I tried to eat more carbs to gain weight, people still bug me now because I'm still thin and ironically they tell me to eat more carbs as a solution--even though that already failed miserably for me and they know it. Very strange. Plus, if someone wants to go LC to lose weight, these same carb advocates will again recommend eating carbs. So they recommend carbs both for gaining weight and for losing weight. I noticed this with ZCers too--the biggest proponents claim it is good for both losing weight and gaining it. Both the carb advocates and the ZC advocates can't be right.

I also know what you mean about grassfed animals. Most of the cattle in Florida are grassfed and when I first saw them I thought they were starving.

[ys]

you don't really need much food to maintain and even gain weight IF your digestion is optimal.
the first thing to do is to recover digestion by removing neolithic foods, this may take some time.  in my case it took over a year.
now, my intake is smaller and i'm slowly gaining muscle mass.  i eat 60% fat by volume, the rest are protein and carbs.

[Sully]

Your body fat should change with the seasons like wild animals. But to do that experiment correctly, one would have to eat the closest thing to only wild native food to a given area. As our ancestors did.

 In wild animals fat goes up and down through season as food changes in variety and amount, muscle stays relatively the same from what I've seen in wild squirrels.

However, humans do not sleep/hibernate through most of winter, so we do not need the as much fat on our bodies during fall as bears and squirrels do.


So in my opinion your fat levels should change through seasons, but not as much as a hibernating animal.

As far as people saying you look like a holocaust victim, keep in mind, most people have more fat on there bodies than they need and not enough muscle. We live in a world where many people desire to be skinny or have bulky muscle, when it should be in between. Good amount of muscle with a thin layer of fat.

I feel better leaner, much leaner than the average person. At a time I was very lean, people said I looked like a holocaust victim that was lifting weights.

Grow and learn and experiment is the key. Find what is best.

[King Salmon]

I know what you mean. Even though I weighed less when I tried to eat more carbs to gain weight, people still bug me now because I'm still thin and ironically they tell me to eat more carbs as a solution--even though that already failed miserably for me and they know it. Very strange. Plus, if someone wants to go LC to lose weight, these same carb advocates will again recommend eating carbs. So they recommend carbs both for gaining weight and for losing weight. I noticed this with ZCers too--the biggest proponents claim it is good for both losing weight and gaining it. Both the carb advocates and the ZC advocates can't be right.

I also know what you mean about grassfed animals. Most of the cattle in Florida are grassfed and when I first saw them I thought they were starving.

Interesting post Phil.I can only say that it seems certain carbs should help to gain weight, when I think of Italy for example.Italians are known for eating massive cabs(pasta) and a lot of them seem heavy to me.Optimal digestion seems to be the key for losing or gaining as far as I can tell.

[Coatue]

Coatue,
Are you consuming fats of some variety? Say animal, or vegetable such as avocado or dairy such as butter?

Yes, I have been consuming fat but perhaps not enough. I tried raw bison back fat and I did not care for the texture or how it to took an incredibly long time to chew. I just ate it till i was satisfied, which was pretty quickly. I think I'll just stick to bone marrow and try to find other sources of fat as well. Should I consume a lot of olives and avocados? Should I put a lot of olive oil on a salad or other vegetables for better digestion?

[PaleoPhil]

Interesting post Phil.I can only say that it seems certain carbs should help to gain weight, when I think of Italy for example.Italians are known for eating massive cabs(pasta) and a lot of them seem heavy to me.Optimal digestion seems to be the key for losing or gaining as far as I can tell.

Yes, years ago I did put on weight while eating carbs, but it was all flab, not exactly what I was hoping for. Eventually I think carbs damaged my digestion so badly that I lost weight and became very emaciated while eating them. So I agree that digestion and gut flora are very important.

[Wolf]

Wolf,
Have you tried the high meat?

I haven't really tried any meat that's been out in room temperature for more than about two days, I did once try to make high meat, keeping some chunks of the grass fed steak I got in a glass jar in my room at room temp for probably about two and a half days at most before I ended up eating it, so it was pretty baaarely high I'd say.  But it was still rather difficult for me to eat as far as taste goes, it was making me gag.  Although I do know I like to leave out my grassfed ground beef for at least a day at room temp and let it get nice and brown on the outside before I eat it, and I actually prefer the taste.  I've been a bit discouraged though, because even while eating completely raw I was still getting acne on my face, and some spots spots/blemishes weren't really healing or going away.  Lately I have been rather low in money though, and eating a bit of SAD food here and there(because I can get it for free), so my acne is being difficult.  I'm wondering if taking a Wai diet approach might actually work better for clearing up my acne though, but I wouldn't be able to afford 2 weeks+ worth of fruit, so that's something I would have to figure out with my dad.

As far as gaining/losing weight, when I was on SAD I could eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, as much as I wanted, without gaining weight, and even when eating like that and completely SAD I was still considered as underweight/anorexic looking by people.  Even my ribs were easily visible when stretching a bit or slightly sucking in my belly.  I was always told I needed to gain weight, though no one could tell me how because they'd see me eating all the most fattening foods and clearing the platters, lol.  Especially at my new job at domino's, the small sized work shirt is probably like twice too big for me, and they all called me too skinny and told me to gain weight, yet they would all see me wolf down nearly an entire pizza all to myself, so I'd ask them how was I supposed to gain weight? 

Even before eating raw though, I had recently lost some weight, as I noticed my pants were getting a bit looser on me, but after eating raw, I did notice I lost a lot of fat weight, most of my pants are now too big and baggy on me, except for the ones that had previously been too tight on me, are now just a little loose.. but still even need a belt when I wear them because they want to fall off.  I'm also sad because after eating raw, I lost fat weight in my breasts as well, which had actually seemed to have gained more weight before I started raw.    I am a bit glad for losing fat in certian areas though, mainly my thighs which seems to be where all my fat ends up being stored, though people don't notice it much.  But I've always disliked how my upper inner thighs would always touch each other they were so fat.  Now they don't touch as easily which makes me happy, but I'm also trying to work out to tone my muscles up too.  My actual weight hasn't seemed to have changed too much though, I don't have a scale so I haven't been able to keep track, but as of most recent time weighing myself (on a 25 cent scale at a car wash a few days ago) showed me to be at 108 lbs, whereas before on SAD I would usually fluctuate between 110 - 120 lbs, 105 being the lowest weight I've been able to get, and 125 being the most weight I ever weighed.  I had thought with as much weight as I had lost that I must have been below 105, but I was not.  Might have been because of the increase in muscles that I've had, though.  107 is considered underweight for my height, according to BMI calculators.

As far as what I prefer, I think purely fat is bad, but I also think purely muscle is bad too.  I would love to lose all the bad fat I have from my SAD diet (as I believe eating bad foods will make you gain bad fat, whereas good foods will make you gain good fat) and then tone up my muscles nicely, at least enough to make me feel strong, and then re-gain a nice layer of good fat from good raw foods over those muscles.  I don't have any weight training stuff though, not even a dumbbell, so it's a bit difficult to build muscle other than by doing things like situps, pushups, squats, and such.. though I can't even do a normal pushup, my arms are too weak, I have to do girly push ups.     and I also don't know I would be able to gain that fat from pure raw foods unless I ate a looooot though, which would be difficult to afford.

[raw-al]

Wolf,
I have a better idea now so it is easier to say something.
Firstly, look in the mirror and tell me the colour of the top of your tongue. This will tell me the state of your digestion.

If you eat the pizza BTW, do yourself a favour and don't eat the cooked cheese. It is indigestible when cooked. You may as well eat rocks. Spread it on after it is cooked. 

To bump up your digestion here is some possibles that are inexpensive and easy,

1. get either a copper cup or a copper penny, clean it well with soap or lemon, (the first day) rinse well. Before going to bed, put water in the cup or put the penny in a regular cup with water. Do not use hot water or heat it in the cup. In the morning brush your teeth and use a spoon to gentle scrape off the gunk from the top of your tongue and spit out what's in there. Do not swallow it. Then drink the water.

2. Make high meat this way. Buy say 1/2 to 1 pound of the best quality grassfed organic meat (fish, beef, pork, chicken or whatever else you like) you can afford. Not ground meat. Cut it up into nibble sized pieces, say the size of your thumbnail or less, put it all in a clean jar large enough that it is at the most half full. Make sure the jar has a lid that is not damaged so it does not rust. Put the lid on it. Put it in the fridge and leave it there for 30 days. Air it out once every three days but do it outside cause it will stink.

After 30 days in the fridge, take it outside the house, open it and use a fork or spoon to fish out a piece. Have something to chase it with in case the taste is too strong. Chew it a bit and swallow it. The taste and smell may gross you out so holding your nostril also may help. It doesn't bother me but it grosses out my GF. Women tend to have a heightened sense of smell compared to men.

Air out this jar at least every three days, (not to worry if you are a bit slack here) Have some of this every day or every three days or whatever. The more the merrier. This will do you for quite awhile. What this will do is repopulate your gut with healthy bacteria.

When there is oxygen in the jar the healthy bacteria grow well and it kills the bad bacteria.

3. Before you eat a meal, mix a tiny bit of salt with an equal amount of raw ginger and an equal amount of lemon juice. Have a pinch of this before you eat. Chew it up as well as you can. It will get the digestive juices flowing so you will have better digestion. If you don't have one of these ingredients it will work with the other two,

According to Ayurveda (my experience is in this method) you have acne because your digestion is not optimal and there is food that is not being digested, that makes it's way into the bloodstream and circulates around till it finds a place to settle. When it gets there, it collects and then essentially it rots. The body's immune system kicks in and surrounds this stuff with blood which causes the red appearance and then it attacks the undigested food which is foreign material as far as the body is concerned. After it attacks the Ama (Sanskrit for undigested food) the white blood cells form a pustule.

As far as your weight goes, in order to gain weight you have to get the digestion working properly. Your body type is similar to mine in that you could eat a horse and not gain much.

The best exercise for you is walking and light stretching like Yoga or Pilates or something along those lines.

Poor digestion is the main cause of all disease. (it's not the only but a main cause)

You can also increase digestion by going for a 20 minute walk after your meal. There is lots of things I could suggest but this is plenty for now.

[Wolf]

Wolf,
I have a better idea now so it is easier to say something.
Firstly, look in the mirror and tell me the colour of the top of your tongue. This will tell me the state of your digestion.

If you eat the pizza BTW, do yourself a favour and don't eat the cooked cheese. It is indigestible when cooked. You may as well eat rocks. Spread it on after it is cooked.  

To bump up your digestion here is some possibles that are inexpensive and easy,

1. get either a copper cup or a copper penny, clean it well with soap or lemon, (the first day) rinse well. Before going to bed, put water in the cup or put the penny in a regular cup with water. Do not use hot water or heat it in the cup. In the morning brush your teeth and use a spoon to gentle scrape off the gunk from the top of your tongue and spit out what's in there. Do not swallow it. Then drink the water.

2. Make high meat this way. Buy say 1/2 to 1 pound of the best quality grassfed organic meat (fish, beef, pork, chicken or whatever else you like) you can afford. Not ground meat. Cut it up into nibble sized pieces, say the size of your thumbnail or less, put it all in a clean jar large enough that it is at the most half full. Make sure the jar has a lid that is not damaged so it does not rust. Put the lid on it. Put it in the fridge and leave it there for 30 days. Air it out once every three days but do it outside cause it will stink.

After 30 days in the fridge, take it outside the house, open it and use a fork or spoon to fish out a piece. Have something to chase it with in case the taste is too strong. Chew it a bit and swallow it. The taste and smell may gross you out so holding your nostril also may help. It doesn't bother me but it grosses out my GF. Women tend to have a heightened sense of smell compared to men.

Air out this jar at least every three days, (not to worry if you are a bit slack here) Have some of this every day or every three days or whatever. The more the merrier. This will do you for quite awhile. What this will do is repopulate your gut with healthy bacteria.

When there is oxygen in the jar the healthy bacteria grow well and it kills the bad bacteria.

3. Before you eat a meal, mix a tiny bit of salt with an equal amount of raw ginger and an equal amount of lemon juice. Have a pinch of this before you eat. Chew it up as well as you can. It will get the digestive juices flowing so you will have better digestion. If you don't have one of these ingredients it will work with the other two,

According to Ayurveda (my experience is in this method) you have acne because your digestion is not optimal and there is food that is not being digested, that makes it's way into the bloodstream and circulates around till it finds a place to settle. When it gets there, it collects and then essentially it rots. The body's immune system kicks in and surrounds this stuff with blood which causes the red appearance and then it attacks the undigested food which is foreign material as far as the body is concerned. After it attacks the Ama (Sanskrit for undigested food) the white blood cells form a pustule.

As far as your weight goes, in order to gain weight you have to get the digestion working properly. Your body type is similar to mine in that you could eat a horse and not gain much.

The best exercise for you is walking and light stretching like Yoga or Pilates or something along those lines.

Poor digestion is the main cause of all disease. (it's not the only but a main cause)

You can also increase digestion by going for a 20 minute walk after your meal. There is lots of things I could suggest but this is plenty for now.

I used to have a white tongue, my entire life my tongue has been white and fuzzy, brushing my teeth more or brushing my tongue did nothing to get rid of it, scraping did nothing, changes in diet had never done anything to alter it, no matter what I did my tongue stayed the same exact white and fuzzy.  Right now I just went to the bathroom and scraped off and scrubbed my tongue, and for the first time in my life I now have a pink tongue.

All the cheese is pasteurized anyways though, so isn't that the same thing?  I don't see how it would make a difference eating it before it's cooked on the pizza or not, and I've also never noticed cheese come out undigested.
Or even if it's indigestible, wouldn't it be better NOT to digest the pasteurized-damaged proteins and nutrients anyways?

Swallowing copper water sounds like it wouldn't be much of a good idea, though I don't know anything about that.. but I did just clean off my tongue.

I know how to make high meat and what it does, the problem is that I cannot keep it in the fridge where my dad can find it.  He would already freak out if he knew I was eating raw meat, but then for him to find out I am eating raw rotten meat?  He would probably send me to a mental hospital.  So I have to make high meat in my room at room temperature if at all.. and if 2 day old meat made me gag, I'm pretty sure I would not be able to swallow 30 day old meat, chaser or not.

My digestion has always seemed to be pretty decent even on a fully SAD diet with fast food and soda and everything, I've never had problems with anything I've eaten, at least as far as feeling sick from it.. as far as constipation/diarrhea though, I would get either every once in a while, but not all the time.  Eating raw, I seem to digest pretty much everything pretty well unless it has fiber in it.  As far as undigested food in the bloodstream being the cause for acne, then why is it that it accumulates mostly in the face?  The way you describe it sounds like it should happen randomly all over the body.  And why then, doesn't everyone get bad acne?  Plenty of people eat indigestible and really bad foods, without getting much acne, some not even at all.  but I don't know.

For exercise, I don't get much exercise other than walking at work/school, and at school I always take the stairs, and then at home I will do situps and pushups and squats and such, because I am trying to build up my muscles.  I am very weak, I can't even do a single push up.  I want to have a nicely toned stomach, and I want strong toned legs as well.  I do a bit of stretching too, because I want to be more flexible, too.

[Brother]

I'm beginning to weight lift on the RZC diet (which I just started) to put on some serious muscle. I already view myself (as well as my family) as being too thin (I lost a lot of fat but gained no muscle) and I'm concerned I'll lose too much weight. Have any of you had trouble in terms of losing too much body fat or weight while on RZC or Raw Low Carb? Is there a way of preventing further weight loss and guaranteeing weight gain (especially muscle)? I don't want to look emaciated/anorexic.

Eat raw eggs, raw meats and eat plenty. If you can stomache dairy and have access to raw milk. Eat plenty of raw cream and butter (whipped cream is zero carb). You want as much fat as you can possibly stomache and more protein than most people would eat even on this diet.

I am assuming you want to bodybuild. You want to sculpt your body, right? You have to train either for strength or for size. You dont have to stick with your choice forever, but you have to make it now in the beginning and I suggest you go for building mass. You will gain a lot of strength from BB, but compared to focused strength training it is moot. Take a look at some of the asian weightlifters. They do not have a lot of muscle going, but they are strong as bulls. Pure strength is as much a feat of will, focus and your nervous system as it is muscles.

Don't overtrain and have patience. If you are a natural hard gainer, it takes time. But perseverence and proper diet will give you good, even great, results. Diet is everything. Vince Gironda (the iron guru) put it's impotance at 85% of succesful bodybuilding. Dont spend hours in the gym. Muscle burn does not equal a good workout. This is a common misunderstanding. Find a good program youre comfortable with that has room for playing around so you and your muscles dont get bored (they need variation in work load and angles from which you "attach"). Spend no more than 45 mins a session, do this 3-4 times a week and dont take long rests between workouts or sets. I rarely do more than 20secs and only if the last exercise had me exhausted. Every 6 week should be a week off where you do no training at all.

Stay away from cardio training or keep it to an absolute minimim. Dont do situp exercises as they are counterproductive to what you want to achieve as they mess with the hormonal balance. Your stomache muscles will gain from just about everything else you do, especially squats, so there is no need for them anyway. And finally:

DRINK MORE WATER!

There is nothing natural about bodybuilding. Not a thing. It is compensating for our sedated lifestyles. So, you will have to drink a lot of water to keep everything in check for as long as you keep a regular training schedule. Your body will punish you if you dont. No sane tribesman would do repetive shit like this for no other reason than size even if he was offered a cow to do it.