Author Topic: examples of raw animal fat  (Read 47118 times)

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Offline Dorothy

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2012, 12:48:14 pm »
If you've never had raw animal fat straight - you're in for a treat (at least if you are like me). I rarely want meat - but I sure want fat! Marrow and suet are quite amazing.
Don't forget fatty fish like salmon. I love that stuff.
If you are willing to eat dairy make your own raw fermented butter and you will think you've gone to heaven.
Mmmmmmmm. Fat!

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2012, 02:53:12 pm »
Did you ever try raw butter?  I was just curious, I know you mentioned having tried fermented dairy, but I couldn't remember if you had tried raw butter.
Yes I have tried raw butter. However, I was never able to get hold of it in the UK, only in Austria. I tried it on its own without other types of raw dairy for some weeks and did not notice any difference to other raw dairy products in its effect.

Raw butter does contain trace-levels of casein and lactose. Even ghee does. So people who are acutely allergic will still get a nasty reaction while those with only minor allergies to dairy sometimes have told me that they did fine with raw butter at first only for them to gradually experience slight health-problems a couple of years later until they cut out the raw butter completely from their diet.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2012, 03:00:12 pm »
If you've never had raw animal fat straight - you're in for a treat (at least if you are like me). I rarely want meat - but I sure want fat! Marrow and suet are quite amazing.
Don't forget fatty fish like salmon. I love that stuff.
If you are willing to eat dairy make your own raw fermented butter and you will think you've gone to heaven.
Mmmmmmmm. Fat!

Dorothy, Thanks for responding. I have read much in this forum.  A number of people said suet tastes like wax! Marrow gets better rating. Maybe one day I will try marrow. Is there any parasite warning about marrow?
I have eaten salmon sashimi for years. Right now I eat wild caught alaskan salmon daily. But a little research on wild salmon worries me. This site advises against wild salmon:
http://www.beyondsalmon.com/2006/10/parasites-in-fish-part-2-anisakis-and.html

Also:
"...the parasite destruction guarantee is accomplished by ‘freezing and storing seafood at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time), or freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours, or freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours’ which is sufficient to kill parasites."

Do you know if the frozen wild-caught alaskan salmon bought in the grocers has been frozen at this temperature? I think I may try to find out from the fish company. Also, do you know what is the lowest temperature our home freezer can get?

I love dairy.  But I have read a number of less-than-positive comments on dairy in this forum. Otherwise I would just rely upon raw dairy.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 03:16:51 pm by Joy2012 »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2012, 04:31:14 pm »
Hi, Tyler. Did Aajonus explain why  the proteins in raw dairy and raw eggs are not as useful for rebuilding the body as those in raw muscle-meats?
  No, he didn't.  I just concur with him since my experience agrees with what he said re raw dairy and raw eggs. They seem to be fine for giving instant energy and for nutrition in general but not suitable for real repair work in the body.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2012, 04:48:54 pm »
Tyler, may I ask what is meant by "rebuilding" or "real repair work in the body"?  Does it refer to the day-to-day repairing (for everyone) or repair for major health problems?

BTW, it seems to me from reading this forum that red meat is emphasized often because it helps men to build big muscles and add weight. As a petite woman I am less motivated by that benefit.

I do want to figure out the most optimal diet for my health.  I have been a raw vegan for a few years and this raw paleo diet is all new for me. Thank you for you help.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2012, 05:28:09 pm »
I meant repair for major health problems.


I suppose it is logical to assume that eating raw muscles will help improve one's muscles in particular, that eating raw liver will help heal one's liver etc..  However the nutrients will help all parts of the body, ultimately.

All I know is that eating raw meats in general helped get rid of some very unnatural muscle-weakness/health-problem that I had in pre-RPD days. I also noticed that if I did weight-training on a rawpalaeodiet that my increased muscle-mass stayed on for longer than on a cooked diet. However, other than very slightly improved muscle-tone on a RPD diet, I did not notice any vastly increased muscle-mass on a rawpalaeodiet if I didn't do any exercise.So, I don't think you need to worry.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 02:36:59 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline KD

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2012, 11:20:57 pm »

BTW, it seems to me from reading this forum that red meat is emphasized often because it helps men to build big muscles and add weight. As a petite woman I am less motivated by that benefit.



I agree with much of what TD is saying. Its more of a health issue. There may be different temperaments (or whatever one word one wants to use) that do better with fish or fowl or red meats etc...but for many people ruminant meats are where its at for rebuilding health.  Part of this is based on real world experience, part on theories of evolution, a "natural diet", tradition and so forth.

Most people that are having problems building muscle, odds are its because they are unhealthy. 'Healthy-ish' people generally can build skeletal muscle on any kind of proteins, even veg proteins. Many people (the males you are likely speaking of) likely restored there health over time to where they can start rebuilding healthy muscle on a raw diet without supplements, fillers, and other unhealthy habits. That is generally hard to do on veg proteins or other inferior proteins. At that point, whether one eats fish or red meat is probably not that relevant, or only to the extent as to how it effects the person's general health.

Odds are, raw red meats would be superior for growth (my vote anyway), but the point is is that these things are both related and yet totally independent things. Eating tons of animal protein won't miraculously grow your muscles.

Basically If one wanted to have no muscle definition, you may still prefer to eat 100% ruminant meat, or whatever variety of RAF you wished.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2012, 06:48:08 am »
Hi Joy, I'm not as lucky as many of the folks on this forum as I don't have much access to fresh unfrozen raw animal foods besides eggs and dairy. I slice suet frozen and eat it frozen and it has a very different texture that way - and I love it. I'm a fat monster though. I like eating plain butter and egg yollks. I look for things to put them on, but if I can't find anything - well - in it goes by itself. :D  You never know until you try it for yourself. Try it frozen too though before knocking it. Marrow is wonderful if you get a good source - but honestly - I like suet better!

As far as freezing fish and parasites I learned that as long as it is frozen long enough at regular freezer temps it's perfectly free of parasites. Someone here might know more. But I have kind of an extreme attitude towards things. I feel like fish is so important for me that even if it did give me parasites I'd still eat it - I'd just take some good strong parasite killing herbs with it. I also trust that my body is strong enough to fight any parasite. It might be different for someone that is sick and weak and new to raw foods. But there's no fear of parasites at all for anyone with it sitting in the freezer for weeks. Those buggers are dead.

Welcome to a bigger wider tastier and healthier raw world Joy! Congratulations on making the leap.


Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2012, 11:50:31 am »
Tyler, Thanks for sharing your personal experience.  May I ask how soon your health problems started to heal after you began eating raw red meats? (I am trying to get more motivation to eat red meat I guess.)

KD, Thanks for your explanation.

So I am trying raw grass-fed beef. For the past three days I could only manage to swallow about one oz. each day. I am trying another method: I am marinating it with some lemon juice and spices right now; hopefully I will find some good recipe to help me adapt to the taste of raw beef. Taste change is possible, right?

BTW, will you guys say that lightly cooked red meat is injurious to health? Is raw fish better than lightly cooked red meat in terms of healing the body?

Dorothy, Thanks for your encouragement. I do hope my taste will change soon.
Concerning fish, I did contact one fish company last night—Copper River Seafoods. Following is their speedy email reply:

“All of the fish that goes through our process that gets frozen before leaving our site meets the HACCP criteria that you stated below and is parasite free. With that said, we cannot guarantee if the vendor maintains those same numbers once it hits their facility. Our fresh/frozen fish is intended to be cooked before consumption for that very reason. There are two solutions to guarantee that there are no parasites once the consumer gets the product home: The fish can be ran through a hard freeze again by following the criteria stated below or the fish can be cooked to the recommended temperature.”

So now I feel very good about buying frozen fish packages from this company. My fear of parasites is not just for health reasons. I just feel it is very yucky to have live worms inside my body!

I have been focused on mastering raw red meat and I have not yet have the courage to get to raw animal fat yet. What is suet exactly?   My dictionary told me that suet is the fat around kidneys. Does it taste different from the white fat inside and around grass-fed beef pieces sold at grocers like Whole Foods?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2012, 02:54:48 pm »
Tyler, Thanks for sharing your personal experience.  May I ask how soon your health problems started to heal after you began eating raw red meats? (I am trying to get more motivation to eat red meat I guess.)

Well, it all depends. By the time I had switched to a RVAF diet, I had developed something like 100 minor to major conditions, anything from anxiety to inflamed, reddened skin in some areas to chronic fatigue to chronic constipation etc. etc.. I had c. 80% of these conditions disappear after  about 4 months after I cut out all raw dairy from my diet. The rest took anywhere up to 2 or 3 years to disappear. After that point I was more or less healed of specific health problems, but not necessarily on top form/perfect fitness as such for a time. But, after a couple more years, I was fine in all respects.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 10:44:22 am by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2012, 12:35:34 am »
Joy--you definitely can learn to enjoy the taste of raw beef.  Don't force it on yourself, though.  Find a definitely grass-fed source, and eat just a little at a time.  I also recommend having fat with your meat.  It's more nutritionally balanced, and it's more enjoyable to eat.

If you're going to cook your meat, I'd recommend only steaming it. High-temperature methods tend to create toxins, and make the meat less digestible.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2012, 10:32:25 am »
Tyler. Thank you for your response. Wow, raw dairy indeed did not do you any good! Did you have any immediate discomfort after consuming raw dairy which told you that raw dairy was not good for your health? (Raw dairy and raw salmon/scallops are my main stay right now. But if raw dairy is indeed not good, I will consider doing without it.)

What is RVAF diet? It does not mean Raw Vegetable And Fruit diet, does it? (I guess you would not say Raw Vegan diet has healed you of all health problems on this Paleo forum.) May I ask what your diet was before RVAF?

Cherimoya, Thank you for your encouragement. Since so many people in this forum love raw red meat, I guess there is a good chance I will learn to enjoy it.  I get grass-fed beef from my local Whole Foods. I take in a good amount of coconut  oil and dairy cream. I plan to  master red meat before I tackle raw suet/marrow. One task at a time.

I saw grass-fed bison sold at grocers. It is a bit pricy. Will you guys say bison is a good source of red meat?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:00:58 am by TylerDurden »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2012, 11:09:47 am »
The really sad thing was that, during my childhood, I did have one obvious sign of dairy allergy in that I would often have my sinuses blocked with snot. I ended up often wiping my nose with handkerchiefs. My parents etc. thought this was "normal".

Well, anyway, all this taught me a powerful lesson once I went rawpalaeo, and that was to never trust any person in authority on anything unless my own experience in life was in line with what they said.

As regards "RVAF" diets, that means "Raw Vegetable and Animal Food diets".
Re past diets:-
Like a lot of people here, I saw this diet as a last resort after having tried every other possible diet out there, barring Breatharianism and the Macrobiotic Diet, I think. I had tried Atkins/low-carb diets, the Hay Diet, the cooked-palaeolithic diet, Raw Vegan and Fruitarian diets, various diets like the SCD diet, the Mediterranean Diet and endless variations/modifications of the SMD diet etc. etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2012, 02:26:51 pm »
Tyler,  thank you.  Your former (unsuccessful) experience with so many diets gives me good hope that raw paleo diet must have merits. I will give it a try.

Was your cooked Paleolithic diet experience no good at all?

I have found marinated beef tastes quite alright.  I will up my intake of beef and see what happens. 

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2012, 05:00:14 pm »
Was your cooked Paleolithic diet experience no good at all?
It had no effect whatsoever. The stomach-aches I got from eating any cooked animal foods at the time meant that a diet high in cooked meats was a disaster. I also got chronic constipation after eating any cooked animal foods.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2012, 04:25:40 am »

 Will you guys say bison is a good source of red meat?


If it's grass-fed and grass-finished.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2012, 06:12:44 am »
Tyler, thank you for sharing your experience of cooked meat diet. I definitely will not try that diet now.
It is wonderful that you have found RVAF works for you. I hope I will have success with it too.
What raw vegetables are good for health? Some people on this forum seem to be against all vegetables and some are against fruits to a large degree. It is somewhat confusing to me.

Cherimoya, thanks for your response.  What if the beef/bison/bone marrow is from a herd that is grass-fed on pasture but is grain-finished (fed with grain mixed with grass the last couple months before slaughter to fatten the herd)? That is the only kind  of bone marrow so far I could find at local grocers. As to beef/bison, my local Whole Food/Sprouts stores label just says “grass-fed.” I do not know if it is grass-finished. If I cannot find grass-fed and grass-finished stuff, I guess grass-fed and grain-finished (for the last couple months) is not that bad?

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2012, 06:31:14 am »
You will likely have to get in the habit of talking to the producers or at least the meat dept. peoples. I have a close relationship with the meat dept. people at all my local co-ops and specialty meat markets. They know I'm the 100% grass fed guy and not to try and sell me anything grain fed.

As for the last couple weeks/months finishing on grain, you can look up charts on the web that show what happens to the nutrient profile as you feed grains. It only takes a couple of weeks to ruin years worth of grass feeding. Annoyingly enough it takes a year or so to reverse it the other direction. I'm not sure exactly why this is, but the point is, the label should say 100% grass fed, if it doesn't, then there's a possibility that they were grain finished. Ask the meat department and don't quit until they convince you one way or the other. If they sound unsure, then they are unsure and you need to go over their heads.

Grain finished is that bad, I wouldn't touch it unless you have no other alternatives...<----- this is almost never the case.

You have to decide which veggies are good for you. Everyone is different, you'll have to find which ones give you energy/healing and which ones cause you digestive discomfort. Don't ever rule anything out, as you heal you may be able to digest things you couldn't earlier, so it's ok to try a vegetable again later even if it doesn't work for you now. No one can decide what is good for you, we can only give you some general guidelines and explain the fundamentals, then you have to choose the rest for yourself based on your results.

There's a lot to learn and it looks like you are on your way. Don't give up!

Look in to the weston A price foundation if you haven't already, they will explain what makes traditional foods, at least for livestock...ie ruminants eat grass/leaves only,  fowl and pigs should get a variety of foods including meats/bugs/grass/seeds, etc...

To understand what I'm saying, a rattlesnake's natural diets is snakes, frogs, small rodents and rabbits. If you were raising snakes as livestock, you would want to buy the snakes at the grocery store that were eating these things, not snakes that were fed milk or tomatoes, that would be unnatural and produce unhealthy meat. Obviously you're not going to probably be buying snakes for food, this is just an example to see the underlying principle at work. Each animal, including us, has a range of natural foods that promote natural, healthful development. When that diet is deviated from, you begin to get dis-ease, both in the animal being fed that, and then the animals that eat them.

Offline eveheart

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2012, 10:36:14 am »
What if the beef/bison/bone marrow is from a herd that is grass-fed on pasture but is grain-finished... As to beef/bison, my local Whole Food/Sprouts stores label just says “grass-fed.” I do not know if it is grass-finished. If I cannot find grass-fed and grass-finished stuff, I guess grass-fed and grain-finished (for the last couple months) is not that bad?

I will echo CH's "No!" to grass-fed/grain-finished. It's a shame they do this to satisfy consumer demand for marbled muscle meats. Don't be discouraged in your search for grass-fed beef. Think of it has a scavenger hunt - what you are looking for is out there. I've been eating RPD since last April. I went to a lot of different butcher departments before I found one that suits many of my needs. Even so, I've only been able to get brain once. I'm still working on getting a fresh whole liver. My alternate sources are very expensive and inconvenient, so I buy from them only occasionally. It's okay - our paleolithic predecessors didn't always make the kill after their exhaustive hunting efforts, either.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 11:03:22 am »
Grain-finished is crap.  Period.

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 11:54:28 am »
Thanks to all who informed me that grain-finished stuff is unacceptable. Sigh! Why would they do that!

There's a lot to learn and it looks like you are on your way. Don't give up!
I thought I learned everything about the ultimate diet--raw vegan!

Thanks to all again for the info and encouragement.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 12:40:26 pm »
I usually avoid  raw vegetables. I do occasionally eat the tastier ones  such as carrots, radishes, seaweed and lettuce. I avoid tasteless stuff such as broccoli. The way I see it, if it's tasteless; it's a warning from the plant not to eat it.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 01:32:56 pm »
Joy - I think I'm one of the few people here for whom produce works well - I eat very little meat actually - most of my diet is raw fruits, vegetables and seeds. The way that I eat ground meat is I make my tiny meatball size helping of ground meat into something that's like a bird's nest and in the middle I put an egg yolk and some salt and pepper. The egg yolk changes everything for me. I eat just this little bit once every week or two. That's it. That's all my body wants. If I try to force myself to eat more - it tastes really bad to me - but if I eat the amount my body wants it's delightful.

Since you are coming from raw vegan (I was mostly raw and a vegan for a decade or so - the then vegetarian for another decade or so - so I have a good sense of the issues) another suggestion I have for you is to get a nice cut of grass-fed and slice it paper thin - into the thinnest sashimi you can muster. It tastes differently and when I first tried meat it was a way for me to do it that was more like sashimi fish - kinda melts in your mouth.

Also - I suggest that you go slow and don't do more than appeals to you. Everyone is different and how much you need might be different than others here and even if a lot might be good for later, a little might be all you can do at the beginning. It's ok. Just getting used to fish is a pretty big jump. I ate raw fish and dairy and eggs for years before I tried raw cow. I had to learn about grass-fed first and then that it was possible to eat it raw too. I keep on adding in new foods over time. It's a process - a fun process. Do what feels right. You're light years ahead adding the fish and eggs to your raw food diet. 

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2012, 10:07:45 am »
I usually avoid  raw vegetables. I do occasionally eat the tastier ones  such as carrots, radishes, seaweed and lettuce. I avoid tasteless stuff such as broccoli. The way I see it, if it's tasteless; it's a warning from the plant not to eat it.

So one just eats the raw vegetables appealing to one's taste. That is easy. :)
I was reading Ron Rosedale's article on insulin from Dr. Stanley Bass' website yesterday. He particularly recommends fiberous vegetables. He gives the example of broccoli. ;)

Offline Joy2012

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Re: examples of raw animal fat
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2012, 10:36:23 am »
Dorothy, thank you for your kind encouragement and ideas.

To my surprise, I have found marinated beef tastes alright. So now I will focu on eating beef for a  while, since many on this forum feel red meat has the most healing power. I think eventually  I will reintroduce fresh produce to my diet. But right now I want to find out asap if red meat could help bring me optimal health.

 

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