examples of raw animal fat

[Dorothy]

Dorothy, thank you for your kind encouragement and ideas.

To my surprise, I have found marinated beef tastes alright. So now I will focu on eating beef for a  while, since many on this forum feel red meat has the most healing power. I think eventually  I will reintroduce fresh produce to my diet. But right now I want to find out asap if red meat could help bring me optimal health.

You never know until you try it right? Remember that how much fat you eat can affect how you do with the muscle meats. Some people here seem to have a hard time digesting produce and especially mixing produce with meat and if you have a health issue especially, perhaps your approach makes a good deal of sense.

There is a man here by the name of Lex and he has a journal. When I arrived here the person who introduced me to paleo suggested I read his journal - and I did. Fascinating. He eats nothing at all but meat/organs/fat - but he points out that many that try to eat all muscle meat do not do well. He eats a mix that includes the entire animal including all the organs and he thinks that makes a really big difference. He also thinks that the proper mix of fat to the mix is very important. If you are not going to eat any produce at all then I highly suggest you read his journal. You would be attempting what is called a ketogenic diet and it would be good for you to know about what you might experience by researching it more. I tried eating all muscle meat without the organs and not as much fat and it felt totally wrong to me in a way that was so extreme that it felt like it was more than just "me". Eating the entire animal and enough fat seems to be a critical detail if you are going to be eating an all meat diet from what I've read here. Others probably can help you with more than me - I just want to put out a little warning to you not to eat just marinated muscle meat exclusively without having all the information you might need.

[Joy2012]

Dorothy, thanks for warning. What is the reason fat is so important?  I would think eating fat would add fat to my body, which I do not really need.  I do take in dairy cream and coconut oil.  But I am just thinking about cutting out dairy cream for the time being (while I am consuming beef so that I will know for sure if beef is good for me) because a number of people on this forum warn against dairy.


I guess I am not ready for organs right now.  I will master beef first.  As for animal fat, even the little white fat inside chuck beef is not tasty to me right now.  Maybe after a  while I could develop a taste for animal fat.

I buy fresh grass-fed chuck beef at Whole Foods because it is the least expensive cut ($7 a pound). The beef is not chewable. I end up swallow it. (I ask WH to slice it into thin slices for me.) I do not feel indigestion after swallowing it.  Is it alright?
There are other cuts. I am willing to pay a little bit more for chewable cuts. What other cuts are chewable?

[MarkC]

What is the reason fat is so important?  I would think eating fat would add fat to my body, which I do not really need. 

Dorothy is absolutely right, most people who try zero carb will tell you that fat is essential. Eating protein alone will lead to protein poisoning. However, there is some debate about how much fat is needed. Lex eats 70-80% of calories from fat it seems. If you were eating some veg or even a small amount of fruit you would not need such a high proportion of fat, but with zero carb a high proportion of fat is essential. You will get some fat from lean meats but probably not enough. You can get adequate fat from eating a range of fatty cuts of meat, organs and overt fats such as bone marrow and suet. Fat is so important because it's a source of energy, fat-soluble vitamins, and essential fatty acids.

Eating fat will not make you fat unless you are eating far above your requirements. Fat storage has more to do with your hormones like insulin. Sugars and starches are what make us fat by raising our insulin levels.

All meats are chewable! Chuck is quite a tough meat but not as tough as two of my favourite cuts, brisket and shin. Buffalo brisket and shin are even more delectable than beef. Eating them is quite straightforward, I just chop them up into bite size pieces, chew a little (the flavour is delicious) and swallow. The part you can't chew is collagen but if it is cut up small there is no problem to swallow it.

[Joy2012]

Mark, thank you for taking time to write to advise me. I learned about rabbit starvation from this forum. I certainly do not want protein poisoning.

I read somewhere that for a ketogenic diet 150 grams of protein a day is minimum. A pound of chuck beef has about 90 grams of protein, so does a pound of pink salmon. So I think if I keep my consumption of beef/salmon under 2 pounds (and add coconut oil/dairy cream as I need) I should be safe. Is that right?

Thank you for letting me know that brisket and shin are even tougher than chuck beef.  So I will avoid these two cuts until I advance in the school of raw paleo diet.

[Dorothy]

Hi Joy,

Believe it or not almost all cuts are chewable if you slice them thin enough. You need a very sharp knife and precise hands though.

But bolting your meat - the people here say is fine. It's what my dogs do! It's really only for carbs that we need to chew well because of the amylase (enzyme that breaks down carbs)  in the saliva. Raw meat needs much less to digest so tearing and swallowing like a carnivore works fine believe it or not.

Raw fat truly does not make you fat. That's just part of the "big lie" we all have been fed.

Besides, I really only care about saving your kidneys - making sure you feel good during your transition and that you get healthier and healthier. How big or small you are counts little - that's also just part of the big lie of how attractive you are as being based on your size - especially for women. What really counts is making sure you do well on this diet so that you can grow healthier and healthier over time. That's where real beauty comes from.

The last thing any of us need is to get sick just because we got a bit too excited and didn't have enough knowledge quite yet. There is a learning and adjustment curve. If our society was healthy we would all grow up with this basic knowledge - but because our society is sick - we need to take the time to learn. This place shortens the learning curve dramatically - but there still is one.

There are a good many folk here that have done zero carb in earnest for many years. Doing it wrong even one day as a healthy person that has been into raw foods for decades - it took me weeks to get over that one day experiment physically. If you are in any way not in ideal health - please listen to the guidance of those that have already done the experimenting for you and who can guide you around the pitfalls. Just because you don't like raw animal fat and organs yet does not mean that you can go ahead with an all muscle meat diet and be successful.... and you might not quite understand what experimenting with these kinds of things can do to your health long-term. As powerful and quick the healing can be with diet, so can be the destruction if not done with prudence.

Take the time to learn ways to make the whole animal enjoyable, how to increase your raw animal fat intake so that it tastes/feels good and THEN delve completely into a muscle meat ketogenic diet. Don't put the cart before the horse. That's my sincere opinion - take it or leave it - for what it's worth.

[van]

Joy I repeatedly refer people to Dr. Ron Rosedale's writings to understand the relationship  of fat to protein in a very low carb diet.  I think too many make the mistake of ingesting too much protein.  Rosedale tells you why you don't want to make that mistake long term. 

[Joy2012]

Dorothy, thank you for taking time to help me out. My major goal indeed is optimal health. I am fine with my weight; I am just not eagerly looking forward to putting on fat.

I am putting my “beef” experiment on hold now. (I still feel happy that I have found marinated beef palatable, considering I did not even like pricy steaks in the past.)  I do want to do more research. Actually these past 20 days I have spent every evening reading on this forum. People’s testimonials are motivating. I would like to read more science-based studies/theories. But I do not know whom I may trust. Google “raw paleo diet” does not produce much material.  And “experts” often hold different views…

WF told me today their electric meat slicer is broken. When it is fixed, they will slice my meat “really thin.” I will see. I have found all my knives very dull in dealing with raw beef, although they were very adequate in my raw vegan days. Is there a brand of knives you recommend? I have some fear about using sharp knives though. Years ago I gave away my very sharp knife because I felt intimidated by it.

I just found out you live in the same city as I do! So where do you find raw grass-fed bone marrow in Austin? I tried WH and Wheatsville. No success.


Van, thanks for recommending Dr. Ron Rosedale. I did go to his website to read his writing.

In his “The good, the bad, and the ugly of protein,” Dr. Rosedale talks about his idea for protein intake:
“Certainly above 1 gram [of protein] per kilogram of lean mass is probably high. Most people, I’ll put on .7 or .75 grams per kilogram of lean body mass. But if I’ve got a diabetic, and I really want to reverse their aging, which means reverse their diabetes, because diabetes is a model of aging, I’ll put them down to .5 or .6 grams per kilogram of lean body mass per day.”

By that standard, a man with 50 kilogram of lean body mass is to take in less than 40 grams of protein a day. That is less than ½ pound of lean beef.  It seems to me a good number of members on this forum are eating way above this amount?

[KD]

hmm. Not sure who these 50 kg lean mass males are but yeah Rosedale's recommendation (as listed here) is certainly extra low.


Somewhere between that and the massive amounts of protein many people choose to eat is probably right for you. If you are not sedentary its likely further from this range above.  Take into account this is in reference to a diet designed to run on ketones/fatty acids. Even so, the way I understand it, some protein will be converting to glucose regardless so more is often needed. Also the liver and other organs can deteriorate rapidly on low-protein diets so I don't understand how 50 g or less would be ideal to produce adequate glucose or reverse aging.

The lowered protein, way high fat that some people do, may or may not apply to people that eat higher carb, higher protein diets.  However, despite what one would think about our ancestry, eating lots of muscle meat in particular (free of fat, organ, collagen, and other aspects of whole animals) is likely not good and represents a boat-load of not only unbalanced macro-nutrients, but dietary amino acids and internal hormones. This is in addition to being linked to other oft proposed issues of excess unused protein.

I would stick with at least 70-100 g a day (which one basically can achieve on a low-fat high carb whole foods diet adequate in calories) and cap off at the point that protein is in excess of structural and exercise needs which likely won't be higher than 1 g per lb unless you are super active/muscle hog etc...


---

lets say the LBM is more like 70 kg and therefore "desired" protein is 50 g (or less)

200 g deer meat
250 g suet
10 g wild goose liver

yields a diet with ~ 50 g of protein, 2400 cals, and 91% fat.

bon appetite :/

[Dorothy]

Dorothy, thank you for taking time to help me out. My major goal indeed is optimal health. I am fine with my weight; I am just not eagerly looking forward to putting on fat.

I am putting my “beef” experiment on hold now. (I still feel happy that I have found marinated beef palatable, considering I did not even like pricy steaks in the past.)  I do want to do more research. Actually these past 20 days I have spent every evening reading on this forum. People’s testimonials are motivating. I would like to read more science-based studies/theories. But I do not know whom I may trust. Google “raw paleo diet” does not produce much material.  And “experts” often hold different views…

WF told me today their electric meat slicer is broken. When it is fixed, they will slice my meat “really thin.” I will see. I have found all my knives very dull in dealing with raw beef, although they were very adequate in my raw vegan days. Is there a brand of knives you recommend? I have some fear about using sharp knives though. Years ago I gave away my very sharp knife because I felt intimidated by it.

I just found out you live in the same city as I do! So where do you find raw grass-fed bone marrow in Austin? I tried WH and Wheatsville. No success.


Van, thanks for recommending Dr. Ron Rosedale. I did go to his website to read his writing.

In his “The good, the bad, and the ugly of protein,” Dr. Rosedale talks about his idea for protein intake:
“Certainly above 1 gram [of protein] per kilogram of lean mass is probably high. Most people, I’ll put on .7 or .75 grams per kilogram of lean body mass. But if I’ve got a diabetic, and I really want to reverse their aging, which means reverse their diabetes, because diabetes is a model of aging, I’ll put them down to .5 or .6 grams per kilogram of lean body mass per day.”

By that standard, a man with 50 kilogram of lean body mass is to take in less than 40 grams of protein a day. That is less than ½ pound of lean beef.  It seems to me a good number of members on this forum are eating way above this amount?

Joy - you're an Austinite! Wow. One day we will have to meet. We can go to my favorite Mexican Restaurant to enjoy some raw ceviche together.    Hecho en Mexico - so good!

I have found grass-fed marrow bones at the farmer's market - but they were not good. Maybe in the spring there will be better. The farmer's market are the best place to get grass-fed in the city that I've been able to find so far - but I have to admit that I haven't searched as much as I could. I won't eat the WF meat myself. There are some good vendors at the farmer's market at other times of year for lamb, bison, wild boar, beef and more... but they are all pre-frozen. Generally right now I am getting deliveries from Slankers which is North of us but still in Texas. They have ground meat that includes the organs which is the only way I can tolerate eating organs and I buy their dog and cat food to feed my pets as they are the only place I've found that grinds the whole animal. It's where Lex - the man with the journal that eats only meat/organs/fat that I told you about gets his meat. He eats their dog food! The marrow bones from Slankers are a bit long - but I can still get the marrow out with a thin knife.... but it's their suet I love... but I might be a bit unique loving suet. Central Market is where we shop most and they have a packaged organic grass-fed ground meat that I like a lot there. What part of town are you in?

I just saw in a store this week these gloves that you can put on that will prevent you from getting cut by a sharp knife. Sharp knives are supposed to be safer because you don't have to push so hard to slice so you can be more in control. I got a set of Avolon knives from Costco. They are not your best brand of course but there was no beating them for the price they were at Costco and they are lovely to look at. I just use the sharpener that comes with the set to sharpen up the knife well before slicing fish or meat. Raw vegan you don't need anything sharp - but raw paleo you really do. I think those gloves might have been at Bed, Bath and Beyond.

[Dorothy]

I found a video for you of someone using cut-resistant gloves that might help you to feel more secure about trying them.

Cut Resistant Gloves Demostration


Williams and Sonoma have them
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/microplane-cut-resistant-glove/

[Joy2012]

KD,  thanks for your input.

Rosedale says carbo is not necessary but his diet guideline does permit carbo foods. I think he advocates ketogenic diet but not zero carb diet.

The book in the following link (recommended by someone on this forum) talks about ketogenic diet. On page 109 it says 150 grams of protein should be taken on the first three weeks of a ketogenic diet; it seems to have something to do with protein being converted to glucose with 58% efficiency to meet the body’s glucose need. Later the protein intake is to be lowered a little bit.

http://books.google.ee/books?id=JtCZBe-2XVIC&lpg=PA79&ots=dMPLh6GQFE&dq=ketogenic%20diet%20nicotine&hl=en&pg=PA115&output=embed

So “experts” differ on protein needs. I wish I would just be told exactly what to eat to achieve optimal health. Science is very confusing to a literature major like me.

Dorothy, what is the reason you do not like WF? I thought they have the highest quality foods.

I am 10 minutes’ drive from Central Market. A few months ago I was told by the meat department there they do not carry grass-fed beef. I stay away from ground meat at grocers as I read some articles saying that sometimes alien stuff gets mixed into ground stuff.

“Sharp knives are supposed to be safer because you don't have to push so hard to slice so you can be more in control.” That makes sense.  I do not have a Costco card any more as I do not really buy much of the stuff they carry.  Up to one month ago I just bought fresh organic produce at grocers. I bet I could ask a salesperson at a department store to help me find a sharp knife.  And thank you for giving me the idea of wearing a glove while using a sharp knife.  That shall really help preserve my  hands.

[Joy2012]

The following advice is from Dr. Rosedale:

"Some examples of good fats include: raw nuts such as almonds, walnuts, pecans, pine and macadamia, olives and olive oil and especially coconut oil and ghee.
Fish (oil), cod liver (oil), and flax oil are great to supplement with but should not be used in cooked foods."

http://drrosedale.com/healthplan.htm

Any comment? 
Particularly,  is there any objection to Macadamia nuts?

[Dorothy]

Joy - it seems to me that it all depends on the quality of the ground beef. Grass-fed is really a whole different animal (pun intended). Central market started to carry grass-fed in their case but they always sold out and it doesn't look like they are selling it any more. What I buy is wrapped and I'm not sure the staff even realizes what it is. It's often also sold out - especially after I happen to shop.  

I bought ground beef from WF and it was red on the outside and brown on the inside and it tasted truly awful to me - something wrong. I don't take any chances. Something looks or tastes bad - I won't eat it. Generally - I prefer to buy locally from the farmer's market or have delivered from the Slankers farm here in Texas. The staff at WF was not knowledgeable at all about their grass-fed meats when I was asking, whereas when I go to the farmer's market I can talk straight to the farmer that raised the animal. They love telling me all the details. WF couldn't even tell me if their meat was grain finished or not. It's too big of a chain. At the farmer's market I can look the farmer right in the face and ask them exactly what is in their ground beef. I can buy only from farmers I know I trust. That packaged meat from Central Market though always tastes and feels so good that I know there's nothing nasty in it. I have come to really trust my nose, my tastebuds and my intuition.... but I have been practicing such things for a very, very long time.

If you did want to buy something from Costco you could use my card... but make sure you would want a whole set like they sell. Maybe all you want is just one really good knife. Sometimes that's better. There's a Costco right near me so I tend to buy lots of things from them. I like their return policy. But again - sometimes it's so much nicer buying from a small specialty shop.

[Joy2012]

Dorothy, thank you for your generosity. But I guess I just need one knife at this time.

Which farmer's markets do you recommend? If you do not mind, maybe you could even tell me which farmers you trust.

Maybe I will try Central Market's grass fed ground beef some day. It is great you have developed good intuition concerning animal foods and you are willing to share info. I am very good at selecting sweetest fruits...Alas this skill may not very useful now.

[KD]

KD,  thanks for your input.

Rosedale says carbo is not necessary but his diet guideline does permit carbo foods. I think he advocates ketogenic diet but not zero carb diet.

The book in the following link (recommended by someone on this forum) talks about ketogenic diet. On page 109 it says 150 grams of protein should be taken on the first three weeks of a ketogenic diet; it seems to have something to do with protein being converted to glucose with 58% efficiency to meet the body’s glucose need. Later the protein intake is to be lowered a little bit.

http://books.google.ee/books?id=JtCZBe-2XVIC&lpg=PA79&ots=dMPLh6GQFE&dq=ketogenic%20diet%20nicotine&hl=en&pg=PA115&output=embed

So “experts” differ on protein needs. I wish I would just be told exactly what to eat to achieve optimal health. Science is very confusing to a literature major like me.

There is a difference but the point is - is that even on a  diet with 30, or 50 g from carb sources that you are talking well over an 80% fat diet with that little protein, particularly as calorie needs goes up.

I hear you on the "what to believe" thing, it is indeed all very confusing. If you aren't diabetic or in need of rapid de-aging I would still suggest a higher minimum (particularly before you commit to any kind of keto diet anyway). To look at it naturally, I just listed a few foods that would cap off even for those little active calories (surely would be higher in nature). Therefore, getting any less in a way is very unatural if one thinks about it + if one can get that much protein from whole plant foods.

The only way this is acheived is by including those extremly high fat percentages. I guess what I am saying is that many people you were speaking of with extremely high fat percentages (and with already lowered protein I imagine) would find <50 g of protein to be a problem on a  ketogenic or low carb diet.

Currently I would stick with Lyle over this quote from Rosedale. Maybe this isn't exactly what he recommends anyway. I've looked at Rosedale's stuff over the years and theres always a disconnect for me. Alot of it - like typical low carb sites - is about how many low carb muffins one can eat. Its good news (for me) about his studies and results or whatever, but when you look at the actual 'program' it just makes no sense even in contrast to how many other people run a ketogenic diet. Like nuts and oils over animal fats..For one. Also one of the main things people seem to do on a diet that heavily restricts carbs is to INCREASE their protein, as your body does indeed need something to manufacture basic glucose from. This is covered (I believe) in Lyle's book.


As per the example, most people would think the 70-80% fat with the rest protein and some carbs is already quite extreme. 90/7/3 or whatever seems highly suspicious (to me) as calories go well over 2000.

[Dorothy]

I'm not sure Joy if I remember the names of the vendors. I've never gone to the northern farmer's markets just the one down south and the one in town. The one in town often will have more variety. There used to be a woman that sold duck eggs at the one in town that weren't washed that were unbelievable but then she started selling at central market and Wheatsville so didn't have enough for the market - but I've never seen hers at the stores - I think they sell out or something. I miss them so much that I'm going to buy some ducks to raise for myself. I spent a good long time researching just that today on the internet. Her farm is called Munkebo. If you see those you might want to try them.

There is a guy that sells grass-fed lamb at both those markets. Loncito - that's it! That ground meat is superb! All his meat is superb... and I really trust him. I know he does things right.

There are a couple of bison vendors but I don't care much for bison it seems. I tried it from all the vendors. You might like to try it - but it's probably the most expensive meat choice at the farmer's market.

To tell you the truth I haven't found yet a vendor of ground beef at the market that I like as much as the stuff at Central Market. If you want someone to guide you to the very best of what's to offer at the fish counter - ask to talk to Ken.

I've stayed away from the markets most of the winter because the numbers of meat vendors really dwindled through that horrific drought and most ran out of supply by winter - but we are almost at spring - and there is now more grass than there has been in a long time - so I bet by spring there will be some good choices again.

This spring I'm planning on buying a whole animal from someone. By then maybe we could coordinate sharing something. Folks here have suggested getting some big parts and hanging them. I have a refrigerator in the garage that I plan on doing this with. Between that and getting a bunch ground for the animals I think I might be able to fit a whole cow - maybe - but definitely if I had someone to share it with.

Best of luck finding the ideal cutting knife! There is nothing better than a really good knife. One of my favorites believe it or not is my machete. I sharpen it to a razor edge and use it more than one would suspect. Make sure if you are getting only one knife that it is big enough to handle all of your jobs. You can still cut little things with a big knife, but you can't cut big things with a little knife.

[Joy2012]

Dorothy, many thanks for the info about farmer’s markets and vendors and about a big knife. I will keep it in mind.

You must have a big house/freezer to be able to store a whole animal. My house/refrigerator is small. I may have to buy just small quantities of foods from grocers/vendors as I continue to do my research on an ideal diet and to taste new animal parts.

KD, if I understand you alright, your views are
(1)   In a diet designed to run on ketones/fatty acids (i.e., ZC or VLC), some protein will be converting to glucose. So more protein is needed.   However, protein need is not likely to be higher than 1 gram  per lb of lean body mass.
(2)   Dr. Rosedale’s studies are useful but his practical dietary program is far from ideal.
(3)   Raw oils from vegetables are less health-promoting than raw animal fats.
Is my summary correct?

Will you point to some studies that support the idea that raw oil from vegetable source (e.g.  soaked and dehydrated raw Macademia nuts/flax seeds/pumpkin seeds; certainly not cheap corn oil etc.) is less healthful than raw animal fat?

BTW, who is Lyle? What is his full name? Does he have a website?

[KD]

He's the author of the book you posted

1. Not sure and not sure anyone knows. Some amount of protein I believe converts to glucose. I thought this only happened on those particular diets myself but am under the impression now that it is always. Either way some is used AS protein and with say 30 g of carb, that is still not alot of glucose. Of course the point I guess is to run as much stuff off ketones as well. Anyway, there seems to be a consensus that protein should be minimized on these kind of diets (whether they contain some carbs or not) but not at what level. As for 1g per lb, I imagine for the majority of people there is no real need to eat any more protein than that (and possible damage regardless of diet although people may bite your face off for saying that ) and sometimes better off with - or requiring - less.

2. Maybe it is ideal. Just pulling from that basic value, it doesn't seem very practical or natural. I think if you asked most folk here who eat 'carnivorous' or keto they would say 40-50 g is too low. That is all.

3./B there has to be tons of that stuff on this site with links. On some crappy iPad right now. I'm sure paleophil or a few other people would love to comment on that. I'm pretty critical to many 'paleo' arguments, and even believe it's possible there is 'too much' omega 6 bashing or whatever but can't personally see how much of that stuff is really healthy or natural. Plus generally a lot of plant fat or other unsaturated fat goes rancid quick. Most of that stuff unrefined would have carbs attached that would kick out of ketosis if that is what mattered. Lots of interest in dietary plant food doesn't compute for me into interest in eating 80%+ fat.

[Dorothy]

"(3)   Raw oils from vegetables are less health-promoting than raw animal fats.
Is my summary correct?

Will you point to some studies that support the idea that raw oil from vegetable source (e.g.  soaked and dehydrated raw Macademia nuts/flax seeds/pumpkin seeds; certainly not cheap corn oil etc.) is less healthful than raw animal fat?"

soaked and dehydrated macademia and nuts and other seeds are not really vegetable oils and most nut and seed oils are not taken from soaked and dehydrated seeds. A lot I think has to do with the method of extraction which most often involves heats and/or solvents and oxygenation. It's very different eating soaked and dehydrated seeds than pouring their oils that have been processed out of them on your food imho. You are also eating then the whole seed - which has other digestion factors involved.

Raw animal fats are so concentrated and digest so easily that they are very useful - especially to balance the omega 3 fatty acids that are in so many seeds. You see - most people get mostly omega 6's but when you are vegan or vegetarian and especially raw - the balance might be upside down from most people.

I personally eat both soaked and dehydrated nuts/seeds and animal fat (these days) and they seem to feed me in different ways. I used to be able to get really great corn oil for instance to provide me with good 6's but because of all the stupid scare and gmo's blah blah blah they took that good stuff off the market. But now that I have animal fats it doesn't matter like it used to for me. I have to eat a fraction of what I used to have to eat with animal fats included in my diet. BTW - that's why I have so much space. I used to have to buy a ridiculous amount of food to keep me going so had to get a second full-size fridge if I wasn't going to be at the store all the time. Now I can use that second fridge for primarily meat storage and my first fridge inside is half empty. Most people think having a full fridge feels abundant - I used to feel like I was a slave to food - with two fridges packed up so high I couldn't find things easily without digging and needing constant expensive restocking. Now I can see everything I have and feel more abundant with an more empty fridge with more dense foods in it. I store my seeds always in the fridge btw. Keeps the oils fresher... and especially so after soaking and dehydrating. I make a big bunch at once so they are always available.

[Joy2012]

KD, thanks for your response which gives me food for thought.

BTW, when I said Rosedale’ dietary program is less than ideal, I was referring to his promoting/allowing cooked foods.

I am just not sure if his very low protein/carb idea is ideal: I do not know if the scientific knowledge (about how protein and carb function in the body) in his writing is truly correct.  I would like to read more studies in this respect.

Rosedale is selling supplements. I become suspicious when someone’s dietary program needs supplements regularly.


Dorothy, I agree with you about fridge space. My fridge has also become very roomy this month. I also spend less time in food preparation  as I adopt animal food.

I meant raw whole organic nuts/seeds in my last post, not commercial extracted oil. [English is my second language; so excuse me if I use the wrong terms.]   I was thinking that nuts/seeds might be a good source of fat in a low-carb/high fat diet.

So you are sure nuts/seeds have much Omega 3’s? That is good to know. I had the impression that most nuts/seeds have too much Omega 6’s.  If they have much Omega 3's, what is the argument against them (as compard to animal foods)?

I would think that we do not have to worry about getting sufficient Omega 6’s as they are abundant in natural foods?

[Dorothy]

You do amazingly well Joy for English as a second language!
Different nuts and seeds have different omega ratios. Flax seed for instance are very high in omega 3's and at least raw vegans can eat a lot of these because of raw crackers - at least me - I love soaked and dehydrated flax seed crackers.    (not exactly paleo though)

[sabertooth]

I saw grass-fed bison sold at grocers. It is a bit pricy. Will you guys say bison is a good source of red meat?

I love some good quality bison, it is about the best tasting red meat, but it is pricey as hell( around 9 dollars a pound).

It's also very lean so I always have to eat it with some fat trimmings.

[Dorothy]

I actually bought a sirloin grass-fed steak from the farmer's market at $35 a pound! I was not impressed in the slightest. The ground also was much more expensive than any other kind of land animal meat and I didn't like it at all.

I guess I'm lucky that I didn't like it huh?

 

[Joy2012]

Sabertooth, The bison I saw at a local grocer is $16 a pound. I do not yet want to try it since WH’s grass-fed Chuck steak (at $7 a pound) tastes alright to me now. But I will keep in mind your positive comment on bison, just in case I get tired of beef in some future time.

Dorothy, I also like flax crackers. Actually I am eating some today.  We did learn many things from our raw vegan days, didn't we? I also miss some nice people on my favorite vegan forum.

Here is a quote from Slanker’s  FAQ:
“In my opinion a better oil (than coconut oil) for cooking is macadamia nut oil, which we sell in the condiment section.  Far and away the best salad oils are Flax Seed oil and/or Fish oils….As you can see from our many articles about food, people should not eat grain, potatoes, or sunflower seeds.”

So here is a vote for macadamia nuts/flax seeds and a vote against sunflower seeds. I will need to do more research on oils/fats.

I had a new beef dish invention (while I was just considering the ground beef from Central Mart you recommended): I put sliced chuck steak and some spices (no salt) in my Cuisine food processor to get minced beef. Then I spread the minced beef thinly on a large plate and “bake” it in my dehydrator at 115 degree F for at least a couple hours (turn the patty at least once so both sides will become somewhat “baked.”). It comes out more tasty to me than thinly sliced beef. I think I can stay with this beef patty for some time.

I learned from WF today that their grass-fed beef has never been frozen. That is a plus. Their grass-fed beef arrives on Wed. Maybe you will give them one more chance. BON APPETITE. 

[Dorothy]

Joy - is the WF grass-fed beef grass finished or grain finished? There was no one that knew when I've asked. I have been told that WF no longer does their own butchering. Their cuts of beef might be quite different than their ground of course - but to have pink on the outside and brown on the inside of ground beef - wrong. Hubbie only likes the ground and I eat so very little generally that it only makes sense of us to get ground only.

One of the issues is also that I go to WF very rarely. It's just not our normal migratory patterns.

There's nothing wrong with sunflower seeds if you soak them and/or grow them some... at least there's nothing wrong with them for me! I love activated sunflower seeds and sunflower greens are one of my favorite foods - although I don't get to eat as often as I like these days. Oil is so different than the actual foods. Mr. Slanker is quite extreme in some of his views sometimes. Raw macadamia nuts are so hard to get that aren't rancid. I wonder about the oil. I somehow doubt the oil that he sells is raw.

I think sometimes with seeds you just have to try the different ones and see how they make you feel i guess. Cashews pretty much always are bad - almost always rancid (can smell it) and my body pretty much rejects them for instance.