A day in the life of TylerDurden

[PaleoPhil]

  You're missing the point. Obviously there is no point in trying to convince William or other pemmican-eater, they would  simply make excuses such as "it was the wrong kind of pemmican etc.". I'm purely doing this for myself to see what effects it has on me, if any, and if any symptoms are the same or better or worse than other types of cooked animal foods. As for my deciding in advance that's just ridiculous.

Very well, I'll take your word for it, but I'm still skeptical that this experiment will produce any substantial new insights.

[jessica]

Very well, I'll take your word for it, but I'm still skeptical that this experiment will produce any substantial new insights.

haha your skepticism is exactly what people are faulting tylerdurden for....!?!

[TylerDurden]

This might be of interest to those eating raw grainfed meats:-

"“Another, largely unrecognized, source of dietary AGEs is animal products from animals fed a high-AGE and/or an AGE-inducing diet. This probably includes most commercial poultry, grain-fed beef, and other animals that have high levels of AGEs and/or AGE inducers in their diet. Any ‘fattened’ animal has probably been fed such a diet since that is how rapid weight gain can be produced.”

and this confirms what I've been saying before, that saturated fats are not the issue, but that the glycotoxins formed within cooked saturated fats are the problem:-

"It’s easily missed in the paper, but fats are really big-time AGE producers when cooked at high temperatures,” Joe tells me. “I’ll be posting some data soon. Vegetable fats contain very little saturated fats and they are usually cooked less severely. Since we Americans usually prefer roasted and broiled meats – and much of the fat is on the outside – the meat-based saturated fat gets really high in AGE content when browned. That may be the reason saturated fats are linked to health issues….It’s the AGEs generated from cooking, not the saturated fats themselves. "

taken from:-

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/1687/advanced-diabetes/

[carnivore]

This might be of interest to those eating raw grainfed meats:-

"“Another, largely unrecognized, source of dietary AGEs is animal products from animals fed a high-AGE and/or an AGE-inducing diet. This probably includes most commercial poultry, grain-fed beef, and other animals that have high levels of AGEs and/or AGE inducers in their diet. Any ‘fattened’ animal has probably been fed such a diet since that is how rapid weight gain can be produced.”

and this confirms what I've been saying before, that saturated fats are not the issue, but that the glycotoxins formed within cooked saturated fats are the problem:-

"It’s easily missed in the paper, but fats are really big-time AGE producers when cooked at high temperatures,” Joe tells me. “I’ll be posting some data soon. Vegetable fats contain very little saturated fats and they are usually cooked less severely. Since we Americans usually prefer roasted and broiled meats – and much of the fat is on the outside – the meat-based saturated fat gets really high in AGE content when browned. That may be the reason saturated fats are linked to health issues….It’s the AGEs generated from cooking, not the saturated fats themselves. "


taken from:-

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/1687/advanced-diabetes/

It is clear that animal fattened with high AGEs food cannot eliminate all of these ingested toxins and inevitably store a part of them somewhere in their flesh/organs.
However, the amount of AGEs in raw grainfed meat is probably small compared to the amount found in cooked meat. Is there any data on AGEs content in raw meat ?
 

[TylerDurden]

Very little, I'm afraid. All I have is some confirmed data re high levels of AGEs found in raw, commercially-fed(ie 100% grainfed) chicken.The figures I did see, however, were extremely high(something like 1000+ units) so comparable, IMO, to boiled grassfed chicken,.

[Hannibal]

But it's extremely difficult to find 100% grass-fed animal in this kind of winter, that is now in Europe. Even wild animals are given some amount of grain, because otherwise some of them will definitely die of famine and the cold.

[TylerDurden]

But it's extremely difficult to find 100% grass-fed animal in this kind of winter, that is now in Europe. Even wild animals are given some amount of grain, because otherwise some of them will definitely die of famine and the cold.

  No, wild animals, by definition, are not given grain unless they're farmed, in which case they're not wild. Wild animals have other methods for getting plant-foods in winter, such as digging into the soil under the ice etc. to get at tubers/grass. Even grassfed, domesticated animals don't have to be fed grains in winter, they can be fed on hay instead.

[RawZi]

All I have is some confirmed data re high levels of AGEs found in raw, commercially-fed(ie 100% grainfed) chicken.The figures I did see, however, were extremely high(something like 1000+ units) so comparable, IMO, to boiled grassfed chicken,.

    I don't know enough about AGEs.  Boiled grassfed chicken does smell different to me than raw commercial chicken, but both smell grossly inedible to me, while raw pastured chicken smells, tastes and feels nutritious to me.  

    Cooked commercial chicken my body hasn't been able to tolerate in over thirty years.  I was told over twenty years ago by naturopaths to eat chicken, that my stretchmarks, tendon problems etc indicated I needed chicken collagen.  Cooked chicken only would make me sick though.  I knew grassfed was better, but not good enough for my body, may be the AGEs.  I am so glad to have found raw meat is edible.  

[roony]

  No, wild animals, by definition, are not given grain unless they're farmed, in which case they're not wild. Wild animals have other methods for getting plant-foods in winter, such as digging into the soil under the ice etc. to get at tubers/grass. Even grassfed, domesticated animals don't have to be fed grains in winter, they can be fed on hay instead.

All high quality farms use hay & silage in the winter ... which is odd as all farms even the cheaper ones used to do this .... how expensive is hay anyway lol

[Hannibal]

All high quality farms use hay & silage in the winter ... which is odd as all farms even the cheaper ones used to do this .... how expensive is hay anyway lol

Yes, I know. But I'm still suspicious that they give some amount of grains, as they're much easier to feed the animals.

[roony]

Yes, I know. But I'm still suspicious that they give some amount of grains, as they're much easier to feed the animals.

High quality meats, you can taste the silage, it soaks the flavour through the meat

As for hay the smells so strong you can taste & smell it through the meat


You can easily tell if they add grains, as the flavour gets into the meat

[Hannibal]

High quality meats, you can taste the silage, it soaks the flavour through the meat

Yeah, I can feel that smell through the lamb organ-meats, that I buy.

[TylerDurden]

For some reason, people just love coming up to me in the street and asking me for directions etc. What I find appalling is the sheer number of obviously addicted people who come up and ask me for a light or a cigarette. I had no idea there were so many smokers still out there.

[TylerDurden]

My new avatar is a representation of what Cro-Magnon Man would look like. I've seen that picture a lot of times when researching palaeo theories, so I thought it would be a useful avatar.

[roony]

My new avatar is a representation of what Cro-Magnon Man would look like. I've seen that picture a lot of times when researching palaeo theories, so I thought it would be a useful avatar.

Maybe your avatar should also come with a disclaimer lol ...


The Oxford Companion to Archaeology:

"The term 'Cro-Magnon' has no formal taxonomic status, since it refers neither to a species or subspecies nor to an archaeological phase or culture. "

[TylerDurden]

Maybe your avatar should also come with a disclaimer lol ...


The Oxford Companion to Archaeology:

"The term 'Cro-Magnon' has no formal taxonomic status, since it refers neither to a species or subspecies nor to an archaeological phase or culture. "

 Actually, that's quite wrong. "Cro-magnon" generally refers to a specific type within the European population, though it can be applied to any palaeo man living in Europe in palaeo times, in a vague sense. Apparently, Finland has more examples of Cro-magnon-looking types than any other country:-

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/cro-magnon-man-in-europe-and-africa/

[Nation]

TD, when you did your raw ZC experiment, did you end up having diarrhea?

[roony]

  Actually, that's quite wrong. "Cro-magnon" generally refers to a specific type within the European population, though it can be applied to any palaeo man living in Europe in palaeo times, in a vague sense. Apparently, Finland has more examples of Cro-magnon-looking types than any other country:-

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/cro-magnon-man-in-europe-and-africa/

Again you're confusing theoretical anthropological theories, vs real archaeological evidence

Cro-magnon are a theoretical, fictional group of people created by anthropologists & other crackpot darwinian theorists


As my quote on archaeology makes it VERY clear, & proves my point,  cro-magnon's have no formal taxonomic status


Perhaps you should stop trying to promote facts based on complete & utter fiction, which is anthropology & start relying on an EVIDENCE based science, like archaeology

[TylerDurden]

TD, when you did your raw ZC experiment, did you end up having diarrhea?

No. I don't recall diarrhea as one of my symptoms. Actually, by the very end of the various trials, I was always eating so little food in general because I'd developed such a huge revulsion for any animal food whatsoever, that not much came out the other end(not constipation, just much less going in and therefore much less going out).

[TylerDurden]

Again you're confusing theoretical anthropological theories, vs real archaeological evidence

Cro-magnon are a theoretical, fictional group of people created by anthropologists & other crackpot darwinian theorists


As my quote on archaeology makes it VERY clear, & proves my point,  cro-magnon's have no formal taxonomic status

 Anthropology is just as valid as archaeology. There may be a few frauds like Margaret Meade but the vast majority provide very reliable data. As regards your pointless claims re Cro-Magnon not having any separate taxonomic status as a species or subspecies, that is, of course, entirely irrelevant. There are huge variations within specific ethnic groups, whether asian or caucasian or african etc., with specific, easily identifiable subtypes such as the Cro-magnon or Ainu or Hottentot etc. in them. To deny this, is just ignorant.

Incidentally, the other readers might be interested in the various facial reconstructions of Cro-Magnon men in Europe. Here's a classic example thereof:-

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/1350865/36968/Artists-reconstruction-of-a-Cro-Magnon-an-early-version-of

They all show similiarities such as big brow, wide face, general mesomorphic appearance etc. I'm not suggesting all humans in Europe looked like that, of course, just a specific type/ethnic group.

[Nation]

I've been doing raw ZC for 3 weeks and this week, I had a bit of diarrhea, it was tolerable at 1st but yesterday it was pretty bad. I also had very little energy, no hunger, difficulty sleeping, so i ate some fruit yesterday and feel better already. It sounds like i've run into the same kind of troubles you did, do you know if anyone else on this forum experienced that too? Hopefully adding fruit will allow me to eat raw meat again without having diarrhea. I've had raw meat many times before doing raw ZC and never had this problem.

[TylerDurden]

I've been doing raw ZC for 3 weeks and this week, I had a bit of diarrhea, it was tolerable at 1st but yesterday it was pretty bad. I also had very little energy, no hunger, difficulty sleeping, so i ate some fruit yesterday and feel better already. It sounds like i've run into the same kind of troubles you did, do you know if anyone else on this forum experienced that too? Hopefully adding fruit will allow me to eat raw meat again without having diarrhea. I've had raw meat many times before doing raw ZC and never had this problem.

Oh, plenty of others have reported these issues in the past such as Guittarman etc. A few such people experience the negative side-effects only a few days of going without any plant-foods at all, but most tend to get the nasty side-effects starting from the 2nd week onwards. Things started going really badly for me when I entered my 3rd week of raw zero-carb and subsequently steadily worsened.

[Hannibal]

Things started going really badly for me when I entered my 3rd week of raw zero-carb and subsequently steadily worsened.

William would say that this was still the adaptation.

[roony]

I've had to add stuff like cream, bee pollen, basically tons of fat with highly nutritious bioavailable sugars, such as bee pollen & propolis, or a drop of royal jelly


Exercise also seems to stop people from craving carbs, especially on a zero carb diet

[Hannibal]

Exercise also seems to stop people from craving carbs, especially on a zero carb diet

A don't think so. When you exercice you need some amount of carbs, so if you don't eat them the craving will appear sooner or later.