A day in the life of TylerDurden

[TylerDurden]

One of the things I've noticed, after going rawpalaeo, is that my body less and less can deal with cooked foods, over the years. Cooked foods I eat tend to stay much longer in the stomach than raw foods, so that I vomit  them all up if I eat too much thereof in one meal. Dehydrated food like croissants are more difficult to swallow, due to less mucus being produced in my throat than in pre-raw days, forcing me to swallow lots of water to wash them down. I also often now get a burning sensation further down the throat in the case of some cooked foods. I've always been OK with eating cooked foods during certain rare occasions like family dinners, so this is not ideal, but it is obviously the result of eating mostly raw foods for years and years which has altered the digestive system etc.

[PaleoPhil]

So if we want to keep the ability to digest some cooked foods now and then, do you think we should keep some cooked foods in our diet?

[TylerDurden]

I think one should only opt for cooked foods during important social occasions, not all the time. Always having a few cooked foods along with raw foods, I suspect, taxes the body too much as the 2 foods require different processes(for example, cooked foods seem to require more stomach acid to be produced).


For me, the best option is still to only eat those few cooked foods that I still can consume without too much hassle, when having family  dinners etc. Sure, as time goes by , more of those foods will likely become a problem re digestion etc., in the long run but that's OK.

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm vomiting every time I eat a bit too much cooked foods at one of these social occasions.

[cherimoya_kid]

Yeah, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm vomiting every time I eat a bit too much cooked foods at one of these social occasions.

I'd say eating cooked once every 2 or 3 months is plenty to keep your body able to handle some cooked stuff.  The only time I ever eat cooked is at those social occasions, probably less than 8 times a year, and I actually handle the cooked stuff just as well as I always did, back when I ate it every day.

I am careful to stick with meat, veggies and fruits, though, and usually not heavily cooked (never fried, usually just boiled or roasted), and I usually eat plenty of raw fruit with it, when I can. 

I NEVER eat grains, of any kind, and almost never eat beans.  I think I've eaten beans twice in the last 3 years.  Those foods really do make me feel worse, so I avoid them.

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm vomiting every time I eat a bit too much cooked foods at one of these social occasions.

Well, the vomiting only occurs if I eat a lot of cooked food at one time.

[Iguana]

Haven’t  you guys  grabbed the fact that cooked food are noxious and that, as well as with all nuisances such as dairy, alcohol, coffee, cigarette smoke and drugs, there’ an habituation of the body which being continuously flooded with those pollutants, enters in a state of tolerance to them, which means it doesn’t react anymore by rejecting them immediately - at the price of getting slowly intoxicated?

Getting our body out of tolerance, losing its habituation for such stuff, is of course favourable to our long term health. Wanting to remain in a state of tolerance to poisons while eating raw paleo makes no sense; it can lead to troubles in the long term.

Furthermore, the nuisance of cooked, Neolithic and modern food is not in a linear relationship to the amount eaten. Eating 90% raw paleo doesn’t bring  us 90% of the benefits of raw paleo. A bit like that a train of 100 axles can’t reach 90% of it’s maximum speed if it’s got 10 axles out of the track…

For unavoidable social occasions, you can always order oysters, raw vegetables and fruits and /or bring your food with you. We let the others free to eat what they want, so they have to let us free to eat what we want as well.

Otherwise, it’s hard to remain raw paleo. In the long run, people who do a few exceptions by eating sometimes cooked food are slowly attracted over the years to eat more and more often cooked food and finally end up to eat completely cooked.

The only easy way is to eat 100% raw.  Tell them we are doing an experiment and we want to do it properly. So everybody (friends, family) finally understand that they lose their energy to try to make you eating cooked food with them and they stop bothering you.

Cheers
François

[TylerDurden]

I disagree. First of all, many people here have problems eating raw meats during social gatherings, as people view that with horror. If I were to eat only raw fruits at such gatherings, I would come across as a difficult guest etc. Secondly, eating only 90 percent raw doesn't necessarily make it more difficult to stay on the diet. I, for example, have now spent 10 years on a RVAF diet, sometimes eating as much as 4 cooked meals a week, at other times not eating a single piece of cooked food for a whole year, and inbetween that range(most common is 1 cooked meal a month). Yet I still carry on with the diet because I remember vividly the intense pain I had when I consumed a mostly cooked diet. While my body has healed so that I am much less likely to get very painful stomach-aches after eating any cooked animal food etc. than in pre-raw days, I am extremely unlikely to ever switch away from a mostly raw diet, as a result of those memories. It's all about how strong one's will is.

[Iguana]

Of course, everyone is different and it may work for you this way if you have a strong will.

I speak about what has been commonly seen in Switzerland and France and what I’ve seen around me. And if you want the best chances against cancer, for instance, you‘d better avoid any cooked food.

It’s funny but I never had any difficulties in social meals. A guy bringing his own food and asking just for a plate, a fork and a knife can hardly be seen as a difficult guest. Sometimes, clever people may ask pertinent questions and then we have a discussion much more interesting then the common boring trivialities.  

And I never cared much about what the others think about me. I do what I want and the others can do what they want. I just avoid disgusting them by eating whole raw fish and raw meat in these occasions.

[PaleoPhil]

Well, the vomiting only occurs if I eat a lot of cooked food at one time.

Why do you eat a lot of cooked food at one time?

[TylerDurden]

Why do you eat a lot of cooked food at one time?

Force of habit. When I eat raw animal foods I usually eat a lot at one time re 1 large meal a day, and so do the same often with cooked foods.

[goodsamaritan]

In my country it would be considered rude if I brought my own food.

My technique is I eat a lot at home.  Then in the party I will look for the raw food, usually sashimi or ceviche is there, or if only cooked meat, just a little to be polite.

But I draw the line with wheat.  I tell the host I'm allergic to wheat.

[eveheart]

In my country it would be considered rude if I brought my own food.

Same here. It would also be inappropriate if I made a big deal over what I'm going to eat. For example, last week, there was a catered retirement party at work. Omitting the non-paleo foods, I enjoyed cooked paleo: meats, salad, tomato salsa. Nobody is going to be rude enough to ask me why I didn't eat the other foods (rice, beans, dessert).

It's not a problem if I bring my own raw lunch to the staff lunch room. When a co-worker asks me what I brought for lunch, I smile and say, "Sashimi!"

[cherimoya_kid]

It's all about how strong one's will is.

Exactly.

I think that most cravings for cooked food can be controlled by consuming enough high-quality raw fat.

Some people are so weak-willed that they need to avoid cooked food completely for months or even years, before going back to eating it occasionally...but I think most people can eat some cooked food for social reasons, and then easily avoid it at all other times.

[KD]

I bring my 'lunch'/eyeballs or whatever to work. Its a pretty relaxed environment. Other situations I'm sure I would not feel comfortable doing so. I've turned down opportunities and such re work or living situations or even relationships based on diet..which is fairly ridiculous. I think anyone who says they have not would be fibbing somewhat. I think part of this is par for the course but when it can be avoided...there are many more components in life and even health that are important than eating some kind of idealized approach..even if there is scientific evidence pointing to the efficacy of being 'pure' or something.

In terms of addictions some are very physical and some are mental/social programs. I agree with ck that in my experience if one is on a program with lots of raw fats and little sugary or starchy carbs..there really isn't much of a hole to swing into when eating the occasional cooked paleo food. Partially because alot of these foods in this category cooked are not much more exciting and partly because there is far less bacterias and other things craving these foods..particularly in the forms of cooked sugars+fats which the bacteria of carb systems love to wig out on. None of the food I eat raw I ever really think to cook up..unless I have a guest or something in which insistence on raw etc...would be a poor decision so if I'm eating cooked food its only social reasons or some kind of novelty. I mean whats less healthy? perpetual singledom or scrambled eggs and a cocktail here and there?

I find the inclusion of some foods which need to be cooked like herbs, some seaweeds, and mushrooms to have benefit in my diet and these never drive me to eating crap like when I was on a high carb raw diet. If I eat even highly processed stuff like organic chicken sausage on a bus trip or pasteurized dairy I get the little hangover and move on and don't find myself pawing at other 'treats' ever. On high carb raw I would fill up on fruits before I went out and not eat and still be temped by smells and such. Every once and awhile I would eat and then binge on natural 'raw' foods like nuts or in the first year or two break down at thanksgiving and go berserk on some kind of sweet potato pie. With my current diet the idea of this is ridiculous. I don't even eat the raw foods that are supposedly healthy if they don't fit the pattern of what is a workable diet for me..even if they are tasty. thats addictions/comfort food stuff and feeding bacteria/fungus and is not nutrition.

I havn't messed around with grain foods since back on RAF but when I did begin eating them after a few years raw I never seemed to adjust back (at least not in the months of doing so and even in Weston Price kind of style). All those things have a mental component I am sure though too.

The ideal for me is eating food for fuel and finding the little pleasures here and there which certainly includes outings with non raw partners and friends; that and having no desire for any particular foods and just ordering things off a list that I hanv't eaten in awhile generally.

[Josh]

I think that most cravings for cooked food can be controlled by consuming enough high-quality raw fat.

Some people are so weak-willed that they need to avoid cooked food

I find it disturbing the occasional tendency to write of difficulty with getting on the diet as lack of willpower. It's not helpful to newbies who may be at different stages with diet, coming here straight off a bad standard diet etc. and are not used to controlling the addictions. In my case it's not true coming from a strict diet and exercise regime, when I started I had enough willpower to make myself stick to it for a couple of weeks when my stomach couldn't take enough food, I was making tiny green stools and energy was so low I was nearly fainting. But I had to back off and retry and still doing that process.

[cherimoya_kid]

I think that most cravings for cooked food can be controlled by consuming enough high-quality raw fat.

Some people are so weak-willed that they need to avoid cooked food

I find it disturbing the occasional tendency to write of difficulty with getting on the diet as lack of willpower. It's not helpful to newbies who may be at different stages with diet, coming here straight off a bad standard diet etc. and are not used to controlling the addictions. In my case it's not true coming from a strict diet and exercise regime, when I started I had enough willpower to make myself stick to it for a couple of weeks when my stomach couldn't take enough food, I was making tiny green stools and energy was so low I was nearly fainting. But I had to back off and retry and still doing that process.

I'm not saying willpower is the whole answer.  Eating plenty of raw fat is the larger component.  However, willpower is like a muscle, the more you work it, over a long period of time, the stronger it is.  Some people have used their willpower so little, for so long, that they have to completely avoid cooked food for months or even a few years, to reduce the cravings. It's not that they were born weak-willed, although I think that can be part of it.

[Dorothy]

During my 100% raw stretches, if I did it until my body was really happy, when I ate my first cooked food - out it would come - projectile style. Either that or I'd be holding my stomach and feeling really sick and not being a very good guest at all.

So, being more of a bunny than a carnivore anyway, all I had to was gently say that I had a special diet that I needed to eat for health reasons.    This usually would get me much sympathy, compassion and people real conversation if any. I wasn't telling anyone else that what I was eating was better or right, not even thinking it, just that poor little me had to eat it - and that was the truth because truth be told I'd much rather be able to eat nothing but chocolate cake and feel good. I would make a big deal about how yummy the greenery that was used as decorations was - or the tiny salad at the beginning. I got lots of giggles. American restaurants all have salads and it's customary to bring a dish usually if you are going to someone's home and I would always bring something I could eat some of.

What would usually happen is that I would bring with me on outings a big basket of all sorts of raw goodies because inevitably everyone would want to taste what I had because it looked so interesting and yummy - and I had to bring lots and lots just to get a little for myself.

It is my opinion that what other people really want from me is my attention, my good will, my positive energy, my loving thoughts - and these all flow so much more easily when I don't block that with bad food. People really don't care what I eat I find. They care much more what I think towards them.

[TylerDurden]

Some time back, I went to a national park full of unique flora and fauna, and was told by one of the forest rangers there that wild deer there sometimes die from certain parasites ingested when they eat the occasional snail by accident and thse parasites infect the liver exclusively. The rangers are allowed to eat the resulting carcasses minus the liver, but not sell them. I was told that the meat tastes out of this world as the deer have access to all sorts of unusually rare herbs etc. in the national park.

[TylerDurden]

I came across a US slang reference to raw meat, namely "hamburger". Why is it called that? I always thought it referred to McDonald's-type burgers.

[Ioanna]

hmmm, where was it?  was it referring to raw ground meat already in patties?... that would be my only guess, i've not heard raw meat referenced that way otherwise.

[TylerDurden]

hmmm, where was it?  was it referring to raw ground meat already in patties?... that would be my only guess, i've not heard raw meat referenced that way otherwise.

Yeah, it was a reference to ground, raw meats. Can't remember where I got it from, I was just randomly surfing the net, a great way to learn info I wouldn't otherwise find out.

[TylerDurden]

I just read an amusing article about how there are no "real men" left. It gave Bill Clinton as an example, of a womaniser who has turned "metrosexual", now that he has gone vegan. I find it highly amusing that there appears to be a view in society that men who eat diets high in meat are considered more "manly" than those eating diets consisting mostly or wholly from plants. Indeed, eaters of raw animal foods appear to viewed as being more savage and more masculine even than cooked-meat-eaters - I note that some newspaper articles refer to raw-meat-eaters as "cavemen" etc.

[wodgina]

Probably because there is some truth to it.

[TylerDurden]

OK, I've  done some good work on wikipedia re the raw foodism page in the last few months, the richard wrangham page and related sites. Now I have an issue with the control of fire wikipedia page, as the guy who started the page is hopelessly biased and just undoes my revisions. If anyone who is already familiar with wikipedia guidelines wants to join in re discussions/editing of that page, that would be great.

I realise that wikipedia is constantly changing, so I will by the end of next year have added more pages to rawpaleodiet.com which debunk all the pro-cooking claims, but, frankly, most people find out about raw foodism via sites like wikipedia, so it helps if we don't have stupid, ignorant blanket statements in those pages stating that raw foodists are idiots because , supposedly cooking was invented 2 million years ago etc.