What's your idea of a perfect society?

[pioneer]

perfect society: hmmm, minimum government, Zero federal reserve, zero IRS, no democracy where majority rule because a democracy easily turns into fascism. Read Plato's Republic. A republic is the best system, and Jefferson knew it. A republic is where anyone is allowed to do as they please as long as they do not conflict the rights of others. Everyone has certain rights from birth. No one is allowed to have any form of absolute power.

In the US, we need to: restore our constitution, restore power of the supreme court, abolish the federal reserve, and thus abolish the IRS. No income taxes sounds nice. Also, paying income taxes is against the law. Anyone familiar with the 16th amendment? The supreme court clearly turned down the IRS's strive to have income taxes. People have won court battles for not paying them.

[sabertooth]

The game is the same throughout history, anyone ever watch "The Good The Bad and The Ugly". It was masterful in the way it exposed the corrupt power structures of the world. The good towns people would have some stooge portrayed by an ugly foreigner, set lose to terrorize them by a blond haired savior who would catpure the fiend and shake down the poor people for a bounty that was conjured up, and then he would free the ugly and slip away with the good peoples savings, and repeat the scam in the next town, At the same time the greater powers were ravaging the land in the name of a civil war, which was instigated by other corrupt men for their own selfish purpose (Angel eyes played both sides). Its the same story that has been used since feudal times - kings would orchestrate mock battles to gain control of the peasants who only wanted piece love and happiness.

They sent the hippies to Vietnam, they sent modern  troops after an ugly man named bin laden only to have him slip away again and again after they make off with trillions in deffence spending, Its the same racket and we must break the spell or it will never end.

Just as people find peace they become as gullable as smurfs(serfs) and allow the wolfs in sheep's clothing to Shepard them to the slaughter, good nature will always trigger the averouse of outsiders and eventually end a utopia before it can be established, But If the Elders can actually educate their young in the tribal ways of rights of passage and be wise enough to recognize and rout out disruptive traits from within then they may be able to build a functional utopia. This is why the industrialized established public education as a way to separate the wise elders and their teachings from the young who where viewed as factory fodder. Read "Dumbing Us Down" by John Taylor Gatto (it woke me up).

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men blessed is he who in the name of charity and good Will Shepard the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brothers keeper and the finder of lost children and I will strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who will attempt to poison and distroy my brothers and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

Each man must build utopia according to his own vision. Try not to be bound to the decaying remains of yesterdays structures, You cant fix the Juggernaut give up the feudal attempts and start a commune

[pioneer]

They sent the hippies to Vietnam, they sent modern  troops after an ugly man named bin laden only to have him slip away again and again after they make off with trillions in deffence spending, Its the same racket and we must break the spell or it will never end.

Nick Rockefeller said that it was all planned out that we would go into the war on terrorism only to find that there can be no winner because there is no real enemy.

[Guittarman03]

Good replies everyone.  I agree that the government has purposefully blinded us and that the primary means of control is monetary.  I agree that most people do it just for selfish gain, and I agree that it wouldn’t hurt to see greater liberty across America and the world.

However, I do think the idea of reducing global population is a "good" idea, in that it is the lesser of two evils.   I think the powers that be (think Bilderberg Group, Rockefellers, not necessarily Congress or the Prez) are going about it entirely wrong.  I think they continually jeopardize our survival by spending so much of their time trying to maintain control over people and resources, which leads us to building and maintaining a ridiculous overstuffed military, instead of building telescopes to scan the skies for impending doom.  Instead of considering the weaponization of space to deflect asteriods, we consider weaponization of space to bend "rouge" states to our will.

I think their attempt at controlling society is also linked to experimentation on people.  If you haven't read about it, look in to I.G Farben, the Nazi chemical experiments (aka death camps), and Bayer (yes the company that makes medicine).  People in 1st world countries are really just part of an experiment to test vaccines, drugs, and soon, genetic engineering.

I don’t like the idea of being controlled - and really, if a monetary system wasn’t a necessity of society (at least for now), then we wouldn’t even need centralized government (which I would like) – so I don’t like the idea of being controlled, but I do wonder what would happen if power structures didn’t limit our full growth potential.  How fast might we explode and just consume everything?  Of course, maybe the free market could work that out, but maybe not.  And since these issues affect every living thing on the planet, I tend to think there should be some worldwide and centralized amalgamation to think through these problems. 

I wish there was transparency not secrecy, I don’t understand why they constantly attempt to dominate and subjugate people just for more power/resources.  I have a hard time believing that they have our best interests at heart considering the mass experimentation and lack of directed resources at asteroid and comet impact prevention.

I’m not saying I do have good answers, just a set of ideas and series of questions that lead to complex postulations which lead to even more nebulous concepts and thoughts.  It’s been a while since I’ve thought about any of this.  I kind of had to force it to the back of my mind for a couple years just to get through the daily cycle.   

Good thread, thanks for starting (we tend to have this one come up every so often and I always enjoy reading them).
   

[PaleoPhil]

I am still a hold out for the American Dream

You call it the American Dream. I say it's your individual dream which I encourage you to keep on striving for--it's just not necessarily my exact dream. One major area where utopianism tends to get into trouble is when one dude thinks his utopian dream should be everyone's and tries to force it on them. I'm not at all saying that you would do that--I'm just saying that those leaders who proclaim utopia tend to.

I believe our species is tribal by nature and large hive like societies are against our nature

Yes, many of those hives have claimed to offer "utopia" in the present or near future. I'm skeptical of their promises of utopia.

I am not a wealth man but I am rich in other ways, (Its not having what you want its making the most of what you got)

I agree.

@Guittarman--I agree that transparency is important.

[sabertooth]

The beauty of the American dream is that its a multi faceted Utopian vision that allows for the tolerance of individuals to pursue life liberty and the persuit of happiness on their own terms, so long as it doesn't prevent others from having the right to persue their own vision . Its a beautifully sentiment that has been perverted by the imperialistic monster the American government has become.

The American dream has nothing to do with the actions of the American empire which trys to Buffalo the people into a homogenized herd of human cattle in the name of liberty. Its the spirit of liberty copeled with honor and respect for the golden rule. It allows one man to pursue his dreams while at the same time protects him from the dreams of others. Within the American dream people preserve the right to opt out of society all together, or Build their own from scratch its only an Ideal and only a shadow of it exist in reality, but its all I have left for a hope of a better society, the dream is what keeps me sane.)

The Amish have built their society , there are a number of communes that have been successful, the vagabonds chose to opt out of established society and camped out contently on the outskirts, Jack Kerouac lived on the road,

This multiplicity of different societies and ways of life within one nation is the Heart of the dream and I wouldn't trade it for any star trek federation Ideal that the New world order is going to try to sell.

[PaleoPhil]

The beauty of the American dream is that its a multi faceted Utopian vision that allows for the tolerance of individuals to pursue life liberty and the persuit of happiness on their own terms, so long as it doesn't prevent others from having the right to persue their own vision .

Maybe the more accurate term would be American dreamS? Rather than a single utopian dream of a uniform "perfect society", the idea you're talking about sounds more like the freedom for individuals to tinker and follow their own preferred lifestyles, their own dreams.

[majormark]

I think the society is an expression of how the children are being treated by their parents.

The "Bomb in the brain - The Effects of Child Abuse" series shows the correlation between child abuse and all kinds of negative personality and health traits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbiq2-ukfhM

The solution that Stef proposed was to try and treat them better and within a few generation we would have enough "conscious" people that are able to realize the immorality of having a government.

I think we can do better than that and start spreading these ideas all over the world, because people already hate the government. They just think that the only solution to a 'bad' government is another government. It's like chasing after bacteria with antibiotics...

Good replies everyone.  I agree that the government has purposefully blinded us and that the primary means of control is monetary.  I agree that most people do it just for selfish gain, and I agree that it wouldn’t hurt to see greater liberty across America and the world.

+1 except for the part with "the primary means of control is monetary", the control is actually by force. People know that if they don't pay, there will be guys in blue costumes knocking on their door.

However, I do think the idea of reducing global population is a "good" idea, in that it is the lesser of two evils.   I think the powers that be (think Bilderberg Group, Rockefellers, not necessarily Congress or the Prez) are going about it entirely wrong.  I think they continually jeopardize our survival by spending so much of their time trying to maintain control over people and resources, which leads us to building and maintaining a ridiculous overstuffed military, instead of building telescopes to scan the skies for impending doom.  Instead of considering the weaponization of space to deflect asteriods, we consider weaponization of space to bend "rouge" states to our will.
...
I don’t like the idea of being controlled - and really, if a monetary system wasn’t a necessity of society (at least for now), then we wouldn’t even need centralized government (which I would like) – so I don’t like the idea of being controlled, but I do wonder what would happen if power structures didn’t limit our full growth potential.  How fast might we explode and just consume everything?  Of course, maybe the free market could work that out, but maybe not.  And since these issues affect every living thing on the planet, I tend to think there should be some worldwide and centralized amalgamation to think through these problems.  

World population would stabilize to a certain number naturally because of lack of resources.
And monetary system is necessary even in a free society. In fact, it would even work better because there will be no state to generate inflation by printing unnecessary money.

perfect society: hmmm, minimum government, Zero federal reserve, zero IRS, no democracy where majority rule because a democracy easily turns into fascism. Read Plato's Republic. A republic is the best system, and Jefferson knew it. A republic is where anyone is allowed to do as they please as long as they do not conflict the rights of others. Everyone has certain rights from birth. No one is allowed to have any form of absolute power.

^ This is a self-detonating statement.

How is everyone allowed to do as they please if the majority are forced to pay taxes and follow ridiculous laws against their will? (even in a 'perfect' republic)

[pioneer]

^ This is a self-detonating statement.

How is everyone allowed to do as they please if the majority are forced to pay taxes and follow ridiculous laws against their will? (even in a 'perfect' republic)

Well actually it is the form of republic plato laid out and the US founding fathers endorsed. The founding fathers hated democracy. Because a democracy says if 51% of the people agree with something, it is set in stone and un negotiable by the 49% minority. A republic acts as everyone has basic birth rights. Like the right to a fair trial. Remember a lynch mob is a democracy, a republic is the sheriff coming in and saying "wait a minute, we can't hang this guy without a fair trial." Then the courts decide, but even then have to abide by the law.

G. Edward Griffin, author of "The Creature from Jekyll Island" said it well, the system has to be designed in a way that no organization, federation, institution, man, etc... can really attain absolute power. There has to be boundaries. Because there are always gonna be scumbags out there looking out for their own interests. We need to design a system that deals with these scum bags. Im not saying a republic would completely work, maybe a modified republic would be better.

Your last question is the big one. However, without the fraudulent IRS and the Federal reserve, only government would be allowed to tax. Also, government would be the minimum, not the way it is today. Government is only supposed to provide services for the people, like building highways, and roads, etc... Not get into all of these other affairs. Government is not what it is set up to be, rather it is largely collectivism. Collectivism is the idea that government should take care of all of man's problems. It is a totalitarian concept and discourages free thinking. Government needs to get their hands out of our business and we need a completely different tax system. People think that government helps minorities and such with services such as welfare, but it actually keeps minorities down, and degrades their values. Welfare encourages single mother families and a poor society. It discourages minorities to take their own action to make their lives better. Finally, government needs to stop keeping information from the people "for our own good" because we are too stupid and dumb to make our own decisions.

Also, I did not mean everyone can do as they please in a literal sense. But as long as it does not break the law, or conflict with others rights, I should be able to do what I want. That means if I wanna ride a motorcycle without a helmet, eat raw meat, drink raw milk, not wear a seatbelt, thats my choice. I dont know why they are encouraging safe behavior anyway since they have an agenda to wipe out roughly 55% of the world population.

[majormark]

Government needs to get their hands out of our business and we need a completely different tax system.

lol, when you write things like that, it's like saying that you prefer to be shot in the left nee instead of the right one because it would hurt less...

Government is just a gang that claims the power to pass and enforce laws, tax people etc. It has been proven that this system only attracts people that want to profit and it can never function in the best interests of individuals.

By thinking we need a government you assume that a few people are so benevolent and virtuous that are able to meet the needs of everyone and at the same time not take advantage of their position of power. You'd have a hard time finding such saints.

My opinion is that several organizations in a competitive free market would be able to kick the ass of any government in terms of quality of service provided to people.

[sabertooth]

we are beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men

What we need to protect the meek and righteous majority from the overreaching authorities of big government and the uncontrollable greed of the money trust is a system that keeps both powers within a well defined boarder, if you cant do this then they will gang up and conspire against the best interest of the people to serve their masters(the money masters) those men in black uniforms work for government money and do so to protect the interest of the corporations who write most of the laws through government , middle men.
Lawyers for big business write most of the laws being rammed through congress without even being edited by the legislative body, there needs to be a well defined barrier that prevents this conflict of interrest, Its called treason and there was a day and age that they would hang you for it, Now the make you vice president Like dick Chaney who was head of the largest defence contractor in the world at the same time he was manipulating the people to accept going into a war that would profit his interrest at the expense of innocent lives(treason I say)

The last few presidents were front men for these secretive organization

Reagan was kept on a short leash by bush #1 who was the head of the CIA then he became president, Clinton who was a Rhode Scholar was mentored by the author of Tragedy and hope (he was a CIA middle man)bush 2 was a usefull idiot that was run by the same people as bush #1, and obama Is a total CIA creation, his first job out of collage was for Henry Kissinger befor dissapering to pakistan for a year with no record of what went on , for petes sake wake up

The fox is in the henhouse

[pioneer]

It has been proven that this system only attracts people that want to profit and it can never function in the best interests of individuals.

I agree, but where did you find this proof? just curious. History?

The last few presidents were front men for these secretive organization

Exactly, finally people are starting to be aware of this. That democrats and republicans dont really oppose one another behind the scenes. Its like WWE wrestling, on screen they all hate each other, but when their show's over they all shake hands and say "good show". The media and all other forms of acquiring information is all run by members of the CFR and other corrupt groups. All part of the elite attempting to have a world government with chip credit.

[majormark]

pioneer,

Of course history has proven that over and over again. It is, after all, human nature and probably, to some extent, bad diets.

sabertooth,

I'm not sure it's all like WWE wrestling because some politicians (or interest groups represented by them) actually compete with each other for power, but that's a good comparison in terms of the show off that all have in common.

It is ridiculous and yet, people still hope that "one day" the government will be composed of virtuous and benevolent politicians if they just make the "right" choice on the next election...

[pioneer]

pioneer,

Of course history has proven that over and over again. It is, after all, human nature and probably, to some extent, bad diets.

sabertooth,

I'm not sure it's all like WWE wrestling because some politicians (or interest groups represented by them) actually compete with each other for power, but that's a good comparison in terms of the show off that all have in common.

It is ridiculous and yet, people still hope that "one day" the government will be composed of virtuous and benevolent politicians if they just make the "right" choice on the next election...

Now we're on the same page and that is exactly what I am trying to say. There are always gonna be good guys and bad guys in politics. Therefore the system has to be designed in a way that no one can attain absolute power. You see, Hitler and his regeme did everything legally to attain power. Rockefeller, Bilderberg group, CFR, and Carnegie mostly do things legally to acquire power (even though there are some exceptions such as the Federal Reserve and IRS). The system has to be designed in a way so these fascist groups can not flourish.

You probably can agree that in general, most people look forward to the next election because they have the false hope that some knight in shining armor on a white horse is gonna come in, fix the depression, pull the troops out, and save the day. That is a pipe dream. Presidents, governors, and politicians are simply puppets for the real bad guys behind the scenes that nobody knows about. People dont even stop to think who funds the campaigns. US dollars are worth pennies now because the corrupt federal reserve simply prints imaginary money whenever they want and its not backed by anything valuable, like gold or silver. An ounce of gold and  silver is worth roughly the same now as it was 10,000 years ago. Can you say the same thing about a green piece of paper? No, the US dollar is worth pennies now, if that. It used to be considered great to get a monthly pay check of $40.

I am digressing, however my point is that politics dont mean anything unless we know who is behind the scenes funding a certain party, and what motives they have.

[sabertooth]

The frustrations at the highjacking of our system of checks and balances by the profiteers go back to the very begginning and have been expressed by many of good people who really want to serve the peoples best interrest and create a better society, but find themselves powerless against the machine that has been set up to keep the little man in line.

Anyone ever see "Mr Smith goes to washington" Its an old movie that stars Jimmy Stuart about a good man who has nothing but good hopes of helping his community when he gets to congress, but is totally disappointed when he finds that the colleagues he respected are all puppets of the money men, even a fatherly figure that is suppose to show him the ropes is a mire stooge, and when he trys to make any positive changes he is viciously put in his place, until at last he is forced to call out the scoundrels on the house floor in a passionate filibuster.(the movie is still relevant to today's politics and I recommend people watch it for inspiration.)

I agree that its not all staged or controlled by a single power, but there are a group of outside forces that put the interest of their individual masters over the best interest of the little people. And It may not matter how many Mr Smiths we send to Washington if the machine is still allowed to remain intact, but I still think If we had a few people to rail against the machine from a bully pulpit then at least we would have people that we could trust keeping watch over the watchtower. We need another King Fish (Huey Long) to proclaim every Man a King, or at least some person who can name names and stand up with honor and cut the scallywags a new one. I have never voted ,but this election I have actually got a real candidate for the first time (Rand Paul is running in my district and he has my vote) Hopefully he is more bullish then his buttoned down father Ron Paul, I doubt he will enact radical change, but at least he is real and Judging by the controlled medias attacks on him, he must be a legitimate threat to some very powerfull people.

[pioneer]

Yes definitely vote for him. There are various banned media videos all over youtube of Ron speaking about all these issues of corruption. His main motive was to not have secrets from the American people.

[PaleoPhil]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, it's fascinating how many Paleo dieters have a libertarian orientation, including several prominent ones like Kurt Harris and Nassim Taleb. I have a libertarian tilt myself. I think it helps me to question authority and conventional dogmas and thus helped me to be open-minded enough to consider Paleolithic nutrition, though there is dogma even within the libertarian movement.

[pioneer]

Maybe this diet just gives us all enough sense and clarity to wake up from all the bullshit.

[Guittarman03]

The fact that most people here are willing to consider many different, and especially non-institutional ideas regarding diet would naturally tend to over flow to other endeavors.  At heart, I believe most of us on this forum are what you could call, truth-seekers, and we're willing to follow that rabbit trail wherever it leads, even if it means eating raw meat.

And there are some very simple truths about our governemnt and the institutionalized forces which control and shape our society.  These truths are constantly obfuscated, so when we get a look at something like strict constitutionalism, the Ron Paul movement, or libertarianism, we have a leg up in that we're wiling to consider many options, and I think have another advantage in that we don't care so much where the truth leads us, so long as we can get closer to it.

Thus, the kind of person that would eat raw meat for health is also the same kind of person that would embrace the truths of Ron Paul, stict constitutional libertarianism.  And make no mistake, the precepts of those movements are rooted in truth and transparency, even if some of the finer details may be debatable.

[pioneer]

Truth and freedom are synonymous with one another. Without truth there can be no freedom. So as long as deception is institutionalized, the bulk of us are still all serfs in this matrix.

[PaleoPhil]

Maybe this diet just gives us all enough sense and clarity to wake up from all the bullshit.

I think it helps, but I was libertarian long before I tried raw Paleo.

[KD]

heh, I just see bullshit everywhere .

I have always found it odd that all the natural health groups gravitate to the same 'alternative' politics and often even have pretty narrow understanding of what it is they are fighting for and against, other then not wanting to pay taxes or force vaccinated etc... Ironically for me the idea of governing a complex system simply, and stating the simplicity as the efficacy and saving grace of that system that seems overworked or over-exploited, is sort of akin to like the appeal of breatheranism or some similar thing. I'd like to not have to eat too but the world isn't exactly set up to yield to my every desire or even my pursuit of every freedom, nor do I believe that there arn't certain sacrifices beyond even the most basic social contracts that seem to result from having the benefits of a widely inclusive and dynamic system.

[sabertooth]

"The world doesn't owe us anything, it was here before we were." Mark twain

That being considered a universal Truth we must start all our worldly ambition from that point.
If we want something out of this world then we must tune the power of our will toward that goal, and If the goals are larger than one can achieve then we must patronize others to pick up the torch and help lead the way, Maybe we are all in the dark, but until anyone can lead us to the promiseland we are doomed to wander in the wilderness, Until the rapture, we are forced to deal with the bullshit and perhaps use it to fertilize our thoughts and dreams of a better tomorrow.

Libertarianism is just the best we can aspire to under the current heap of bullshit that is being dumped on us from all sides, maybee one day a society can sprout from that heap and grow into something beautiful and divine.

I kind of resent the generalization that people who are proponents of alternative politics are more "narrowminded" than those who attach to the status Quo,That statement must be followed with a good counter point before I will let it stand. As for finding us truth seekers as odd I must agree we are not normal , but so what, once you know that Oklahoma city was a covert government operation, and that 9- 11 was a staged event, as well as the gulf of tonkin, operation Ajax, Kennedy being taken out, his son being taken out , Sony bono being taken out ,The engineering of the great depression by offshore banks, the creature from Jekyll Island being set lose, The total ignorance by all historians to the existence of the Rothschild banking dynasty, who are responsible for funding and instigating some of the largest atrocities in history and yet are not mentioned in an y world history books,is normality posible and can you keep your sanity once you know you are living in an ocean of BS that has been whitewashed for our own good, by hideen powers.

I am an Indigo free spirit that would like to live as an earth worshiping free love bird, but I am under the heap of BS as much as anyone, so I seek shelter in the Resistance movement, It isn't Ideal, but it is more accepting of my quest for personal freedom than other even narrower minded ideology's I have been witness to

[KD]

well, that is not too surprising.

all of these are your opinions I'm assuming based on stuff you've read on the internet and were not there to witness. In importance to this forum my point was that even people on the extremes of belief in diet tend to all be sourcing the same crap off the internet and come to entirely different conclusions. for instance. a.) the government is taking my child because its vegan and the government doesn't want people to be healthy. ditto raw milk, almonds, spinach etc...is this conspiracy or is it the same old truism that people fear what they don't understand, and sometimes are right?

as for being the closet thing to perfect , I can give a few reasons why I disagree.

for one the very idea of public space is nullified by libertarianism as far as I understand. I don't know exactly what the protocol or tradition would be to such a system but that would mean all national parks, water systems in private hands. The very 'predicament' (if one wishes to see it that way) we are in has much to do with the original 'Robber Barrons' and the like influencing politics because of how the system is set up..making it very much less democratic right? So the goals seem to be very much in line with that. less government, and more importance to the market and what makes money. not what human interests are. Its just like with schools where when they do not have money (due to faulty government I admit) they cut all the things that are not seen as important. Corporations run these ways worse. All the media elements bring more 'surface' to our freedoms but the reality is as long is there is there would be too much power and greed it doesn't matter what the in between medium or government is, particularly in regards to 'knowledge' acquired though these information outlets.

also the fact is, is that many services people use in the modern world are just not profitable to be run completely privately. that might not be important to you and me on the surface, but people do need public transportation and other public services and cannot depend entirely on charities etc..Whether alopatheic medicine is useful or harmful, the fact is - is that people people do lose their homes because of insurance messes, so that is a real concrete thing, not something to be disputed endlessly in theory or to claim people should take responsibility for themselves, as if it is that easy.


the problems with democracy are fairly obvious to any intelligent person, but such a system actually removes the very process to create democratic uprisings ala the 'libertarian' forefathers. no public spaces, no public body, no unions etc...its basically a nightmare, and my belief is many people get sucked into these theories in much the same way (due to some inner dissatisfaction) its been suspected that the 'commies' went for the artists and the creative types. thinking openly means generally assuming the opposite of what anyone tells you that has something to gain, and this applies just as much to those without power as those that do.

[pioneer]

I like your passion Sabertooth, and I carry that same desire, but you cant go around saying you KNOW 911 was staged or Kennedy's killing was staged etc... Some of those facts you stated were truths, like the creature from Jekyll Island, and are known history.

I am not disagreeing with you, 911 PROBABLY was staged, but until the truth really gets out about what really happened, there is just suspicion about what happened. There is a bulk of evidence leaning towards the theory though. The main one I can think of are the laws of physics, how the buildings collapsed in 6 seconds, and perfectly fell straight down. Also, many believe there never was a flight 93. I for one do believe that 911 was staged, but I dont know it as a fact. Until I know exactly what happened, I will not go around saying it is a fact. I'm sure you saw Aaron Russo's Reflections and Warnings and a lot of other truth seekers info. This is all great stuff, said by God loving men, but even they do not know what really happened. Aaron just said he heard Nick Rockefeller say an event would happen that would lead us into Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Iran.

You guys should all check out the "What in the world are they spraying" DVD on realityzone.com. And I encourage all of you who are adults with jobs to go to http://www.freedom-force.org/ and become a member. Sabertooth, you say you believe we all need unity to do anything about this, well there it is. The site is run by the same guy who wrote Creature From Jekyll Island. It's about people all over the world who want to stand up for freedom. The notion is that if even just 2-5% of the people in the world join together in unity, that will be enough to influence everyone and the information will begin to be recognized everywhere.

The only thing important in this battle is education. The more people aware of what is going on, the less that will cooperate with them. The less who cooperate, the less power they have. And it is all about cooperation. Cooperation is how any fascist tyrant gets into power; I.e. Hitler.

Also, I do realize that republicans and democrats work for the same agenda behind the scenes, so I am confused as to whether I should vote for primaries or not. The problem with voting libertarian is that the majority of libertarians are ex republicans. Republicans who were fed up with the republican party's lack of uphold of constitutional values accompanied by the fact that republicans are usually ruthless. Every time of imperialism (indians, phillipinos, hawaiians, latinos) was run by the republican party. However, with that all aside, I still favor the republican party more because they uphold many of the constitutional laws such as the second amendment. Also it seems that republicans are against big government and collectivism whereas democrats are for gun control and collectivism. Democrats also are the money spenders, whereas republicans make the money (usually).

Both groups are corrupt though. But I still feel that republicans stand for constitutional rights more. Anyway, since the bulk of libertarians are ex republicans, voting libertarian would take votes away from the republican party and give democrats more power. Thus, collectivism and fascism would rise. However, recognizing the fact that voting machines are designed to be hacked makes me realize that maybe it doesnt even matter who you vote for. We are all serfs and dont even have the power to vote. This is the reason why whoever we vote for needs to win by a landslide, so there is less chance of corruption in voting.

For everything I just stated, I currently have no idea what party I should be a part of republican or libertarian?