exercice in the morning, meal in the afternoon

[carnivore]

I wonder if, on a carnivorous diet, it is a good idea in terms of health and muscle mass, to exercice in the morning on an empty stomach and eat several hours after, in the afternoon ?

I have always read that in order to benefit to the increased protein absorption of the post-exercice window, one should eat within one hour after exercice ?

As I don't eat carbs, I don't bother about glycogen replenishment, but I am concerned by my muscle mass that I want to develop.

On the Warrior diet, it is recommended to take some protein/carbs after exercice.

I do some bodyweight exercices (push-up, dips, pull-up, squat jump, pistols, sprint, etc.)

Any experience or hint ?

[xylothrill]

All I know is that I feel better exercising on an empty stomach rather than after eating. Carnivorism and Paleo in general is protein sparing, especially raw. When fat-adapted, the body doesn't have to resort to muscle break down for glucose. Although our glycogen stores are not as large, it's enough to supply the little glucose we use during an intermittent fast.

Craig

[TylerDurden]

I agree, I also generally feel better if I exercise on an empty stomach.

[carnivore]

I agree, I also generally feel better if I exercise on an empty stomach.

So do I. But what about eating only several hours after a workout ?

[TylerDurden]

So do I. But what about eating only several hours after a workout ?

Well, if I'm suddenly doing a large amount of exercise(eg:- skiing), I find that my appetite is down for the whole of the rest of the day and can eat only small amounts. Of course, if I'm consistently doing large amounts of exercise every day, then I get my appetite back, and eat some hours afterwards.

Well, if

[Satya]

Me too.  I am off to take a taekwondo class now at 6 pm, and really, I am not too excited about it.  I just don't care for evening exercise.  I stick to lunchtime or earlier workouts in general.

For eating time, I like to wait an hour after a workout to eat.  I eat a meal or two a day, low carb.

But the morning workout is not just about food timing or appetite for me.  My body just functions better at strenuous exercise before about 3 pm.  Flexibility is better in the evening, but those night wortkouts are not my cup o' tea.

[wodgina]

Exercising on an empty stomach is obviously the way to go.

Don't worry about eating a few hours after a workout, not needed.

I believe taht to put on muscle mass just make sure your eating good in the period a day to two days after your workout when your muscles are sore.  Can't really go wrong if your eating RP though, so I wouldn't be too concerned when you eat.

I eat late at night because I excercise after work.

[Justin]

I'm trying to find this article that I read where the author had done several controlled experiments and dispelled the myth of taking in any carbs after a workout and that any carbohydrate would kill the growth hormone release afterwards. It was best to wait awhile after training to the let the GH peak and then to eat a meal consisting of fat and protein for hormone production and repair.

[Raw Kyle]

My intuition tells me that muscle development will be good as long as enough food is consumed, the food and lifestyle works well with hormone levels, and exercise is sufficient.

But as for my personal experience, my muscle development was by far the best on SAD when I ate like a pig all day and lifted weights for 1-2 hours about 4 times a week.

I'm just not consistent enough with getting enough food in to gain weight on raw foods.

[xylothrill]

I'm trying to find this article that I read where the author had done several controlled experiments and dispelled the myth of taking in any carbs after a workout and that any carbohydrate would kill the growth hormone release afterwards. It was best to wait awhile after training to the let the GH peak and then to eat a meal consisting of fat and protein for hormone production and repair.

I've been racking my brain. I'm the master of reading articles on the Internet without bookmarking them. I'm sure I've read it but I'm also pretty sure it was in either of the books Good Calories, Bad Calories or Life Without Bread. I'll have to check them and get back to this. I know they both talk rather extensively about hormonal balance and macro nutrient ratios.

Good to see you posting again, Justin!

Craig

[xylothrill]

My intuition tells me that muscle development will be good as long as enough food is consumed, the food and lifestyle works well with hormone levels, and exercise is sufficient.

But as for my personal experience, my muscle development was by far the best on SAD when I ate like a pig all day and lifted weights for 1-2 hours about 4 times a week.

I'm just not consistent enough with getting enough food in to gain weight on raw foods.

In my twenties, I could eat enormous amounts of high-carb and high-fat SAD food and not gain significant weight until I started working out and then I gained about 15 pounds of muscle. I did get muscular and remained quite lean. It was about a decade later that my whole physiology changed. I started gaining weight even though I always had a physically intensive job - regardless of working out. I had stopped working out but that never made much of a difference in my weight in the past outside of that 15 pound window. Creeping up from 180 to 230 came relatively quickly - within the past five years or so. (I just turned 38) This is when I probably acquired metabolic syndrome.

I've found for myself that eating RAF has helped me to lose fat while maintaining and even increasing muscle mass while only working out twice a week. I can actually feel my arms rub up against my back when I move them back and forth. I used to keep doing it because it felt so different and was reminiscent of my early twenties.

I guess my point is that underweight people tend to  find that an RAF diet helps them to gain weight - primarily muscle weight. Overweight people tend to lose fat while maintaining or gaining muscle mass. But they both tend to come to a natural weight - meeting in the middle.

Your experience of gaining the best muscle weight on SAD might be a result of just having to eat much more to acquire the nutrients your cells needed. Instead of burning or expelling the excess calories, especially carbs, they went into inflammation, swelling and water retention as mine did when I was your age - glycogen storage and puffiness.

People on PAF tend to be leaner, stronger, and more dense than our SAD counterparts at the same weight. There are many anecdotal reports of people losing inches yet weighing the same and even getting stronger after starting a RAF diet with or without exercise. That says a lot for the diet itself.

It SEEMS harder to gain because you don't need to eat as much on RAF but look at wild animals. Wolves, coyotes, and bobcats are much leaner than their domesticated counterparts. RAF-fed pets are also. I have no doubt they are stronger pound for pound as well.

Craig

[Raw Kyle]

I was able to get my bench press at about 145-150 lbs of weight up to a couple reps of 225 lbs on a raw meat/eggs/milk diet a while back and this was my bench at more like 165 lbs on SAD. I think my legs weren't as strong as before though. I haven't been lifting recently and I'm switching over to kettlebells from Olympic style weight lifting so we'll see what happens. My main training regime has and will continue to be body on body sparring.

I think I'm just a typical hard gainer, I need to eat a lot more than most to gain muscle.

[Justin]

I've been racking my brain. I'm the master of reading articles on the Internet without bookmarking them. I'm sure I've read it but I'm also pretty sure it was in either of the books Good Calories, Bad Calories or Life Without Bread. I'll have to check them and get back to this. I know they both talk rather extensively about hormonal balance and macro nutrient ratios.

Good to see you posting again, Justin!

Craig

Hey thanks Craig,

You know what, I think it is Good Calories, Bad Calories. I'll try to cross reference some past material. Let me know if you find anything as well Craig.

I use to read a lot of those muscle magazines which really reinforced the high carb, low fat diet and especially to drown yourself in carbs post workout. But not just any carbs, you have to have the most detrimental, the processed sugary protein drinks consisting of soy and maltodextrins and or dextrose. These are some pretty poisonous concoctions and I bought it hook, line and sinker. I don't think it's ever been about studying up on human physiology and the recovery process when it came to promoting carbs post workout, but rather huge profits by the supplement industry. It's a billion dollar business that uses roided up individuals to promote their shady products and nutritional programs. Kind of parallels agriculture and the pharma biz, don't it?

[carnivore]

Art Devany also says that eating right after a work-out reduce GH and fat burning, especially carbs.
www.arthurdevany.com

I've been racking my brain. I'm the master of reading articles on the Internet without bookmarking them. I'm sure I've read it but I'm also pretty sure it was in either of the books Good Calories, Bad Calories or Life Without Bread. I'll have to check them and get back to this. I know they both talk rather extensively about hormonal balance and macro nutrient ratios.

Good to see you posting again, Justin!

Craig

[Satya]

I'm trying to find this article that I read where the author had done several controlled experiments and dispelled the myth of taking in any carbs after a workout and that any carbohydrate would kill the growth hormone release afterwards. It was best to wait awhile after training to the let the GH peak and then to eat a meal consisting of fat and protein for hormone production and repair.

This probably isn't exactly it, but since carnivore referred to Art Devany, I remembered this piece he wrote on glycogen stores and gene expression:
http://www.arthurdevany.com/?p=810

HTH.

[TheWayCreatesTheWarrior]

I'm trying to find this article that I read where the author had done several controlled experiments and dispelled the myth of taking in any carbs after a workout and that any carbohydrate would kill the growth hormone release afterwards. It was best to wait awhile after training to the let the GH peak and then to eat a meal consisting of fat and protein for hormone production and repair.

ive seen Colpo make the claim that Carbs pre or peri workout do suppress Growth Hormones but, carbs post-workout dont suppress GH and may even increase it: http://www.lowcarbmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125
not sure how much truth is in that.

[Justin]

Thanks guys. Perhaps it was a combination of reading both Art's website and thumbing through Good Cals vs Bad Cals.  Out of everyong, who likes to consume carbs pwo vs fat and protein? Do you notice much difference in way of recovery when consuming carbs vs protein or fat?

[xylothrill]

Thanks guys. Perhaps it was a combination of reading both Art's website and thumbing through Good Cals vs Bad Cals.  Out of everyong, who likes to consume carbs pwo vs fat and protein? Do you notice much difference in way of recovery when consuming carbs vs protein or fat?

Justin,

I notice a very big difference between my brother and myself. He wears out, especially doing aerobic exercise long before I do. He has surpassed me in weight lifting but I'm quite a bit smaller than he is now. I've noticed I can go longer without losing endurance. When my brother does cardio, he's exhausted after fifteen or twenty minutes. I can go on forever, even after weeks without a workout. I believe it's because my body is used to burning fats and his is not. 

I don't get as sore as I use to after lifting weights. I don't think it has to do with my occupation as much as it does with my diet.

Craig

[TheWayCreatesTheWarrior]

Thanks guys. Perhaps it was a combination of reading both Art's website and thumbing through Good Cals vs Bad Cals.  Out of everyong, who likes to consume carbs pwo vs fat and protein? Do you notice much difference in way of recovery when consuming carbs vs protein or fat?

i didnt feel any difference with carbs post-WO. maybe, my muscles felt alittle fuller, more often, but i dont remember soreness/recovery or strength being much different. this is with weight lifting. with longer duration exercise, more like endurance exercise, i do think i had a quicker recovery rate.

[Justin]

Justin,

I notice a very big difference between my brother and myself. He wears out, especially doing aerobic exercise long before I do. He has surpassed me in weight lifting but I'm quite a bit smaller than he is now. I've noticed I can go longer without losing endurance. When my brother does cardio, he's exhausted after fifteen or twenty minutes. I can go on forever, even after weeks without a workout. I believe it's because my body is used to burning fats and his is not. 

I don't get as sore as I use to after lifting weights. I don't think it has to do with my occupation as much as it does with my diet.

Craig

That's what I've noticed with a few people I know as well. The guys who play more into carb loading have more explosiveness momentarily to begin with, but falter quickly and lack the consistent energy that the guys who eat predominately protein and fat.  I used to get DOMS pretty bad when slugging down the processed carb/protein shakes; no nutrition there. I felt faster recovery from fruit post workout, but even better gains and slightly better recovery from eating fat and protein afterward.

[Raw Kyle]

What's DOMS?

[xylothrill]

What's DOMS?

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.    

[TheWayCreatesTheWarrior]

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.    

i seem to experience that everytime i do legs or calves at the gym. the day after theres very little soreness, but then 2 or 3 days later its hard to walk.

[Raw Kyle]

Oh ok thanks guy, I've experienced that before.

[deepcdiver]

try some BCAA's or amino acid supplements. (like Purple Wrath,etc.) that will greatly reducw DOMS.