my so called journal

[KD]

cool man. I'm glad you settled on direction. Once you get it in and get accepted you'll have it further figured out if its the thing for you. The trip should be a great little (big) breather. Make sure you at least eat some kind of snake or spider and report back. cooked is acceptable

[Cinna]

Update: pursuing application to Rutgers PhD program in nutrition. Going to Nicaragua to meet a friend and see his farm there in mid-December. I'm going to take a bunch of pemmican with me and try and only lightly sample the traditional cuisine there. To completely abstain would be out of the question for me, as although I am a health enthusiast I am also an ethnic foods lover.

For sure, sample the traditional cuisine - even more than only lightly if you can handle it and like it. I am a huge ethnic foods lover as well and sometimes (like where you are likely going), it's so super fresh, even cooked can feel good/nourishing/alive (when one can handle it). Have fun!

[Raw Kyle]

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

[Raw Kyle]

Trip was great, although I didn't get to eat much of the food I brought and I was sick coming home. It was quick though, a fever and some stomach cramps and now I'm getting better.

[Ioanna]

welcome home

glad you had a great trip, kyle!  hope you got some of the diversity and clarity you may have been looking for.  did you take kd's advice to eat a snake or spider?

when you're feeling better, i hope you'll tell more

[Raw Kyle]

I didn't get a chance to eat much exotic stuff. I tried to find turtle eggs but failed. I did try a delicious bull testicle dish, and a good ox tongue dish as well.

[Raw Kyle]

Just found out I'm accepted to a PhD program in nutrition at Rutgers University. I'm in the running for a fellowship but I hear it's competitive, so most likely I'll have to do a teaching assistanceship to make ends meet, which I'm not at all disappointed about.

I'm not sure what I'll be able to research at the get-go, but I see a lot of faculty there do lipid research, and I've been in contact with a guy who sent me a journal article about how different amounts of the salivary amylase gene copies becomes more concentrated amylase in saliva and then changes the speed at which different peoples saliva breaks down starch, which changes texture perception of food while eating. He's into taste and texture perception of food, and has offered for me to work in his lab. So at least I have that if I can't find anything more suited to me while I study. Once I'm done the program of course I can do whatever I want (and can get funding for).

[Ioanna]

Congratulations, Kyle!!!   

You'll probably be required to do at least a couple of rotations I'm guessing.  Once you get there, you'll become more acquainted with all the research going on, and then have your pick.  My advice though.. pick a project/advisor that is well funded as top priority.  Labs with comfortable money situation are lot smoother going.  And lipid research is a very good place to be!!!, presently the 'cutting edge' for sciences. 

When do you start?

[Raw Kyle]

Thanks, I start in the Fall.

[PaleoPhil]

congrats Kyle!

[wodgina]

For some reason academia makes me feel a little ill.

The politics the bullshit.... however if it's what you need to do, go for it.

[KD]

This is great news. I personally think there is alot of room in academia for meaningful research. Perhaps not immediately 'raw' nutrition or whatever, but certainly lots of related subjects. Having a foothold now in that world is probably the only way to take on further extensive research long term. If you can learn and make money/pay for school etc... can't beat that.

I'll probably be back in NY area next year. We should go to a football game or take on a keg rager or something.

[Raw Kyle]

I'll probably be back in NY area next year. We should go to a football game or take on a keg rager or something.

Word up.

There are things I dislike about academia but in the end knowledge of paleolithic diet and other health related issues comes mostly from it. Even knowledge of what modern day primitive tribes do and eat comes mostly from people in academia finding out and writing about it.

If I can't do what I want in academia when I'm done with my PhD then I can maybe do a little research, write a book, and proceed to do expensive nutrition consultations and the like 

[Raw Kyle]

Just met with what will probably be my faculty adviser. He just decided last week he wants to write a grant proposal to test this diet called "nutritarian" vs. the traditional care for very sick cardiac patients at UMDNJ.

My goal as I see it now is to do a good job with that and slowly introduce to him paleolithic and maybe raw diet ideas so that I can steer his next project, or my thesis project, towards something closer to what I believe in. Any ideas?

In particular he seems convinced studies like this haven't really been done yet, clinical at least, there have been statistical studies done on populations like the China thing.

If you guys could help me find old studies or anything that I could learn about to help steer this lab towards my ideas that would be much appreciated.

[TylerDurden]

Well, Pottenger's cats. The only catch is that that study was flawed as it concentrated on raw cows' milk, hardly a natural food for cats.

Also, there are masses of studies done on heat-created toxins like advanced glycation end products etc.

[magnetic]

Just met with what will probably be my faculty adviser. He just decided last week he wants to write a grant proposal to test this diet called "nutritarian" vs. the traditional care for very sick cardiac patients at UMDNJ.

My goal as I see it now is to do a good job with that and slowly introduce to him paleolithic and maybe raw diet ideas so that I can steer his next project, or my thesis project, towards something closer to what I believe in. Any ideas?

In particular he seems convinced studies like this haven't really been done yet, clinical at least, there have been statistical studies done on populations like the China thing.

If you guys could help me find old studies or anything that I could learn about to help steer this lab towards my ideas that would be much appreciated.

My experience with academia is that professors are pretty unresponsive to new ideas, they are typically the least creative thinkers out there.  Maybe tenure has something to do with it.  Most are stuck in their own ideology.  The best you can hope for is a sympathetic advisor.  I hope for your sake he is sympathetic and doesn't try to shoot down your ideas.  Good luck with that. 

[magnetic]

Well, Pottenger's cats. The only catch is that that study was flawed as it concentrated on raw cows' milk, hardly a natural food for cats.

Also, there are masses of studies done on heat-created toxins like advanced glycation end products etc.

One of Pottenger's studies involved feeding raw meat versus cooked meat to cats.  Chapter 2 in the book covers this.

[TylerDurden]

One of Pottenger's studies involved feeding raw meat versus cooked meat to cats.  Chapter 2 in the book covers this.

  But they also always involved raw cows' milk as well. Not one compared only raw meat to cooked meat. Unless I've made an error?

[magnetic]

  But they also always involved raw cows' milk as well. Not one compared only raw meat to cooked meat. Unless I've made an error?

The 2nd chapter deals with raw meat versus cooked meat.  The conclusions of the studies, which make up chapters 4 through 7 are difficult to interpret, as they lump together raw meat and milk as "raw food."  For example:

"Adult cats placed on a cooked meat or pasteurized milk diet begin to show unhealthy conditions in their mouths within three to six months." (page 22 under the heading Deficient Cats)

and

"Deficient cats on cooked meat and heat-processed milk reveal a decrease in the diameter of their bones while their long bones tend to increase in length.  By the third generation, these bones are soft like sponge rubber." (page 31)

So there is some truth to what you are saying.  The error Pottenger made is in lumping raw meat and raw milk together in places, as though they would have the same effect on development.  I suppose there were similarities.  In the text there is a distinction made as to where the conclusions are coming from.

I would think that if his original papers were available you could go through them and see which data apply to the raw meat feeding study versus the raw milk feeding and draw your own conclusions.  In any case it is a fascinating study, what initially got me interested in raw food after I picked it up at a used book store and read it.

[Ioanna]

this is for inspiration, maybe you'll get some ideas from it that you can apply to paleo and heart disease.. idk.. i'm just shocked someone took the time link brain tumor tissue to diet.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/keto-case-study/msg65057/#msg65057

[michaelwh]

Just met with what will probably be my faculty adviser. He just decided last week he wants to write a grant proposal to test this diet called "nutritarian" vs. the traditional care for very sick cardiac patients at UMDNJ.

My goal as I see it now is to do a good job with that and slowly introduce to him paleolithic and maybe raw diet ideas so that I can steer his next project, or my thesis project, towards something closer to what I believe in. Any ideas?

In particular he seems convinced studies like this haven't really been done yet, clinical at least, there have been statistical studies done on populations like the China thing.

If you guys could help me find old studies or anything that I could learn about to help steer this lab towards my ideas that would be much appreciated.

Here are some good recent studies.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/39

In this one, pigs fed conventional grain-based feed were compared to pigs fed a paleo diet (fruits, vegetables, beef, fish meal). Nothing was explicitly stated about cooking, so everything was probably fed raw, except for the fish meal, which is obviously processed.

That group also did a paleo diet study with humans:

http://staffanlindeberg.com/DiabetesStudy.html

[PaleoPhil]

I doubt any professor would be willing to test a raw meat diet any time in the near future, but he might be open to "Paleo." [Warning: the diets in these studies aren't perfectly Paleo by the usual standards here, so if imperfection upsets you then I don't advise that you read them. I'm not claiming that the diets in these studies are perfect, nor that the studies themselves are perfect, I'm just sharing the existing research in response to Raw Kyle's request.]

A Paleolithic diet confers higher insulin sensitivity, lower C-reactive protein and lower blood pressure than a cereal-based diet in domestic pigs
Tommy Jönsson1*, Bo Ahrén1, Giovanni Pacini2, Frank Sundler3, Nils Wierup4, Stig Steen5, Trygve Sjöberg5, Martin Ugander6, Johan Frostegård7, Leif Göransson8 and Staffan Lindeberg1
Nutrition & Metabolism 2006, 3:39 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-3-39
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/39
"This study in domestic pigs suggests that a Paleolithic diet conferred higher insulin sensitivity, lower C-reactive protein and lower blood pressure when compared to a cereal based diet."

A Palaeolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischaemic heart disease.
Diabetologia. 2007 Sep;50(9):1795-807. Epub 2007 Jun 22.
Lindeberg S, Jönsson T, Granfeldt Y, Borgstrand E, Soffman J, Sjöström K, Ahrén B.
Department of Medicine, Hs 32, University of Lund, SE-221 85, Lund, Sweden. staffan.lindeberg@med.lu.se
"Twenty-nine patients with ischaemic heart disease plus either glucose intolerance or type 2 diabetes were randomised to receive (1) a Palaeolithic ('Old Stone Age') diet ... or (2) a Consensus (Mediterranean-like) diet...."
"CONCLUSIONS/INTERPRETATION: A Palaeolithic diet may improve glucose tolerance independently of decreased waist circumference."

"Beneficial effects of a Paleolithic diet on cardiovascular risk factors in type 2 diabetes: a randomized cross-over pilot study," Staffan Lindeberg, PhD et al, Cardiovasc Diabetol. 2009 Jul 16;8:35.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407, http://www.cardiab.com/content/8/1/35
"The study was a randomized, cross-over, dietary intervention study in 13 patients with type 2 diabetes without insulin treatment, 3 women and 10 men, recruited from three primary health care units in the Lund area in Sweden. ....
Conclusion: Over a 3-month study period, a Paleolithic diet improved glycemic control and several cardiovascular risk factors compared to a Diabetes diet in patients with type 2 diabetes."

Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a Paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet
L A Frassetto, M Schloetter, M Mietus-Synder, R C Morris & A Sebastian
Abstract
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 63, 947-955 (1 August 2009) | doi:10.1038/ejcn.2009.4
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n8/full/ejcn20094a.html
"Methods: We performed an outpatient, metabolically controlled study, in nine nonobese sedentary healthy volunteers, ensuring no weight loss by daily weight. ....
Conclusions: Even short-term consumption of a paleolithic type diet improves BP and glucose tolerance, decreases insulin secretion, increases insulin sensitivity and improves lipid profiles without weight loss in healthy sedentary humans."

Effects of a short-term intervention with a paleolithic diet in healthy volunteers
M Österdahl, T Kocturk, A Koochek and P E Wändell
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 62, 682-685 (1 May 2008) | doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1602790
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v62/n5/full/1602790a.html
This study was criticized by Stephan Guyenet as having the following problems:
"#1 is the lack of a control group as a means for comparison. Ouch. #2 is the small study size [14] and resulting lack of statistical power."

Recreating the caveman diet
17 September 2010 Last updated at 08:29 ET
By Philippa Roxby, Health reporter, BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11075437
Unilever Study of Hunter Gatherer-Type Diet. "Research will focus on how the food eaten by hunter-gatherers could enhance modern day nutrition."

[Raw Kyle]

Thanks guys, those are what I'm looking for.

This is going to be a slow process. I think this professor is impressed with me and wants to do alternative research. I might have to wait until I finish my degree to do things I truly believe in. Success in what he is proposing will give me more options and ability to do more. He has hinted at doing something along the lines of what I'm interested in in the future already.

[TylerDurden]

While it is laudable to focus on studies about healthy raw or palaeo foods and the like, I would add a caveat:- plenty of scientists' careers have been ruined solely because they focused on subjects which were frowned upon by the establishment. I can't imagine, for example, that doctors who promote raw diets would be held in high esteem by the pharmaceutical industry, for example - similiarly, vets promoting a raw diet would encounter difficulties with colleagues in the pay of the pet-food-industry etc. Sure, there are the exceptions like Dr Mercola, but even he sells out to some extent.

[Ioanna]

sounds like you're in a great place, kyle