Hunter Gatherer Physiques and What They Did Instead of Modern Exercises

[SkinnyDevil]

One can compare to modern (not necessarily raw, however) paleo female bodies:



Movie star Megan Fox, who is on-again, off-again paleo, if I understand correctly:



Requisite crossfit pic:



I hear tale Angelina Jolie was eating cooked paleo to get in shape for "Tpmbradier"...but I'm trying to find both old hunter-gatherer pictures as well as confirmed modern RAW paleo pictures.

[TylerDurden]

In one of Poul Anderson's SF short stories, "The Long Remembering" a man is sent into the past for a time to be with a Cro-Magnon tribe in Europe and has a beautiful wife there who is so much more vigorous and beautiful in a natural way than his  own modern wife caked with makeup etc., that  he is left with regrets.

Nice, relatively healthy-looking pictures of tribal women, by the way - well except one of them.

[Nation]

I think some of the tribes living in the forests of Indonesia are 100% raw paleo, i saw a documentary about one of them and i saw no sign of cooking. Their diet is extremely limited, they live almost entirely on leaves and small fish, eaten raw.

[raw]

I think some of the tribes living in the forests of Indonesia are 100% raw paleo, i saw a documentary about one of them and i saw no sign of cooking. Their diet is extremely limited, they live almost entirely on leaves and small fish, eaten raw.

can u put some videos ? thanks

[raw]

Some more women pics, not totally paleo but all I could find...







those are lucky babies and women looks so good when they hold these beautiful babies. i also give my toddler unlimited supply of milk and feel really good about this.

it says that wild animals look good in nature and babies look good on their mothers' arms.

[KD]

Here's a pretty cool article. Although I don't agree with everything.
It has some good stuff on physique etc.

http://www.electricphysique.com/perfect-male-body.html

In one study men rated their ideal body as being about 28 lb (13 kg) more muscular than themselves and they also estimated that women preferred a male body about 30 lb (14 kg) more muscular than themselves.

I'd say most of this is a fairly accurate assessment of the population and makes good points. Me personally I also find it hard to separate what is a natural or artificial sense of beauty/self etc. I know I am fairly confident and pleased with my physical progress or prowess or whatever one wants to call it, and have no real concerns that I would need to bulk up for any woman per se, as many women I seem to know prefer thin men... anyway: At 6' I'm at a prety dense 160-165 But all the same, i'd still have to say the ideal for most would be more in the Christian Bale(s) and Viggo Mortensen(s) -who are way over the 190 range- over my build; so that statistic sounds about right. Judging by my own experiences with others, I would say for me and probably others at similar height anything under 160 is fairly underweight per society and per myself, and anything over 170 would be looking pretty normal without having to resort to taking my clothes off.

Heres some pics lookin' HG  OG-RPD KD Swiss clan.

my background is Swiss and various Anglo mut and half eastern European. My dad says no one in his family were ever fit or athletic, mostly farmers. Diet owns genes.

[Sully]

Nice build KD! Keep it up!

As far as height and body weight for men.
It all depends on what percent of your weight is muscle.

Has anyone here experimented with making primitive tools to develope ones arms?

Edit: As long as you got a good amount of muscle, with a thin layer of body fat. All is well.
As far as physique.

[KD]

I will

yeah there really is no formula or ratio and numbers can be very deceiving anyway. In a sense that was a point I was trying to make that although I don't know my exact composition, i'm fairly muscled and yet pretty light weight from what others have told me I look like. Still other than accounting for bones etc..(which I think does factor in for me) 160 for me represents a low end of 'normal' . Like I can still fit into some M sized shirts, and I just started 'outgrowing' thin Levis at 30" (my waist makes it but its all stuck/pinched on the upper thigh crotch area). So i'm still a 'small' person by society standards. Anyway...I was responding more to that article than to what the ideal physique is for a raw paleo person, even though I do have my opinions...

I don't do a whole lot of paleo type outdoor activities. I live in somewhat of an industrial wasteland and other than a few parks theres not a whole lot of nature in the immediate area. If i had a car I guess I could drive out to the scenic parts. Other than Olympic type lifts or bodyweight..i'm not doing all that much arm specific workouts. I used to love doing the forearm winding thing.

[pioneer]

Guys, with all due respect, you all gotta get off this low body fat train. I have very low bodyfat with a 30" waist as well, but it is not what makes me healthy. I could be just as healthy with a 36" waist. Look at the eskimos. Talking about fat being bad is getting back to that old fat phobic notion. Now if you are talking about aesthetics, yes, it is more attractive in todays society to have abs and very low bodyfat. However, when speaking purely realistic and paleo, all the women really cared about was strength and ability in the males. Whether the man had a six pack or not is not what mattered. Carrying his young for miles and being able to bring home a kill after a long day and provide for his family is what mattered to a woman. The only reason six packs and low bodyfat is viewed as sexy is purely society and culture. Do you guys concur?

I really hope you guys dont look in the mirror with disgust if you see some fat on you. I embrace my body when I have fat or not, and I simply keep a six pack just for looking good in todays society. It does not make me any more of a man though. One thing that I also take into account is that aromatase factor, converting testosterone to estrogen, which is definitely a problem with excess body fat, but to an extent, you need bodyfat for healthy hormone levels.

[yuli]

@pioneer

I both agree and disagree 
It is true you do not need to have low fat to be healthy and strong, there are many examples of that. People that are fit with more weight should definitely put up their pics! 
However look at some African hunters and tribal women, they have fairly low body fat.
It just depends on your genetics, where you live and what you eat.
I for one am genetically predisposed to be pretty lean, if I gorge myself I will eventually gain some weight but the weight doesn't feel good on me, I feel healthiest at my natural weight (which is considered very thin for a woman).
My grandmother who is a little overweight is having health issues which tells me everyone has their ideal weight, and in my genepool the fat will bring poorer health, I can see it by examining my family members, the thin ones feel the best.
Sure society views thin people as more attractive, I personally love the lean look but I have also seen quite attractive people of moderate fat (as long as they are not obese and they have muscle with the fat then its all gravy).
BUT - I could not give a crap about whats viewed as attractive in our society as I don't follow norms at all, the reason I love lean is just because of personal taste, 100% because of that, just because I like the look, not because what TV told me (I don't watch it).

As for looking in a the mirror in disgust because you see some fat, yes if you have some sort of anorexia then your judgement is jaded and it is a problem. I like the bit of fat I have around my upper legs, thighs and butt, but for me if I saw fat around my belly, arms and other part for MYSELF that would just not feel normal due to my genetic thin predisposition. Also we are living a different lifestyle then Eskimos, perhaps if I lived with them I would gain lots of weight, but often when you eat well and exercise you end up being naturally thin.

Anyways, I don't embrace my body whether it has fat or not, I embrace it when I feel good and I look good thats all. Whatever weight it is who cares. Everyone should go by their own standards not somebody else's!

[Sully]

@pioneer

Hears my opinion.

Our body fat would go up and down naturally with seasons.

What should not vary as much is muscle mass, unless you are a young man/woman and growing.

My fat ratio doesn't matter to me. As long as I have a good amount of solid muscle.
But by no means do I think humans should get as fat as a bear. We don't try to sleep out the winter.

[yuli]

What should not vary as much is muscle mass, unless you are a young man/woman and growing.

My muscle mass varies with season too.
In the summer I go out more and am more active so I naturally get more muscle.
In the winter I prefer to often stay in and work (do large stretches of only mental activity) - you could think of it as a type of semi-hibernation, during this time I get less muscle but not to the point I feel weak of course.
I think its also good if you have the ability to gain muscle mass efficiently. I can be sedentary for a month (usually its not that long lol) - I'll loose some mass, but then after a few days of exercise it grows quick, I noticed my mom is the same, a small amount of exercise increases muscle mass quickly. She'll go camping for a week in the summer and when she comes back its like a transformation every time lol
Does anyone know if its beneficial to exercise like that?
To have intervals of sedentary then active and so on...I have a feeling thats part of the reason muscle grows quickly. Its like fasting for your muscles perhaps...similar as to why its beneficial to vary types of exercise.

[Hannibal]

But by no means do I think humans should get as fat as a bear. We don't try to sleep out the winter.

How are we supposed to do it, Sully?
Do you think that you or me are able to gain a bear-like fat?
I think that we are predisposed to be lean, even in winter. I'm more bulked-up now, but still lean, no matter how much I eat.

[Hannibal]

Does anyone know if its beneficial to exercise like that?

Yeah, I think it's beneficial.
Our exercises should be IMO in sync with seasons.
I imagine not doing anything during some heavy-winter weeks. It could be healthy.

[miles]

To perform the best it would be best to have the least possible body-fat you can get away with, but the finer you cut it, the less room you have for adversity. It's like racing cars and their fuel. Cheetahs have a very low body fat which allows them to perform very well, out perform their prey. But if they fail to catch their prey they very quickly start to waste away. Maintaining excess body fat is a waste of energy. However, what is excess, depends on what you do.

And Pioneer I don't think anyone mentioned being on any low-body fat train except you. If you're getting fat it's Ok =)

[KD]

The only reason six packs and low bodyfat is viewed as sexy is purely society and culture. Do you guys concur?
you need bodyfat for healthy hormone levels.

And Pioneer I don't think anyone mentioned being on any low-body fat train except you. If you're getting fat it's Ok =)

heh, yeah well the sentiment in what was said was fine, but I mean, the whole purpose of this thread was that HG's had incredible physiques through their fairly natural biological diet and activity. Modern people - while divorced form some of the advantages of HGs, have control over a ton of other variables like choice in diet and movement as well as access to a variety of technologies and ways of thinking. No one has to do anything or to compete with anyone, but certain results will correlate with certain habits. This doesn't seem to necessitate having a judgment on which build is best, just a cause and effect.

I'm certainly not in any race to lose the remaining body fat I have. I've had less in the past and it wasn't healthy as per my nutritional program I was on. I think most people won't associate low bf with health in all instances. At the moment its not been determined by myself whether having lower or high fat percentage is to my best health interests, as i'm inclined to appreciate either stance, but honestly it effects my eating or exercise habit not at all as you say because I'm content. If I wasn't then I would asses my diet/exercise/lifestyle etc...

as for paleo folks I do not know about what builds they preferred, but I think what AV and others refer to as 'fashion thin' is different from the trim and relatively healthy bodies of the HG's discussed or shown here. You'd have to ask a Masai whether they preferred a junk in the trunk Inuit or a playboy centerfold. Plus I'm pretty sure that the gaining bodyfat thing is seen as a temporary tool for modern peoples problems rather then a long term requirement for health (beyond the actual accepted lows for %).

[Sully]

How are we supposed to do it, Sully?
Do you think that you or me are able to gain a bear-like fat?
I think that we are predisposed to be lean, even in winter. I'm more bulked-up now, but still lean, no matter how much I eat.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say. That we are supposed to be much leaner because we stay active in winter. Much more like wolves than bears.

That's what you took away from what I wrote right?


@Yuli I am only comparing the physique of that of a wild person eating raw wild foods. Your muscle mass going down can't be compared to that of our ancestors. They had to stay active even in winter.
I stay active all year round. Even in winter. My muscle mass stays relatively the same year round. But is increasing of course since I am growing.

[yuli]

There must have been times when some of them were more or less sedentary.
Maybe in the coldest parts of the season when they had some meat frozen/preserved.
Or the fact that all the members of the tribe didn't all hunt, there must cave been some that stay at the campsite, taking care of the offspring etc
Or in tropical climates when theres is so much fruit in season and fish, there were probably tribes that didn't have to do too much at certain times.
I was saying its probably just as natural to fluctuate your activity levels.
of course if I got unfit from not exercising for a week that wouldn't make me so happy
When you look at animals like cats, they can spend long periods sedentary and stay very fit regardless, it could be humans are able to do that to an extent as well, especially with the right diet. Some apes are like that too, they spend long periods just hangin around...
When you have good muscle mass already then it makes sense that staying sedentary for a while won't hurt you, and I don't mean not moving at all, just not as much as usual. Otherwise if your muscles waste away so quickly when you don't move then that doesn't seem right. When I start to exercise all of a sudden after being sedentary for a while it doesn't feel problematic for me, in fact it feels more refreshing after a break.

Talking about that...Today I went biking like crazy after working at home most of the week. I am not tired and my legs are in no pain at all, it feels refreshing, I wanna go and do it again ha ha. I think during times like this the muscles may develop faster then lets say, biking every day.

[miles]

It's also not just the thickness of the subcuticular fat layer which affects the visibility of one's sick-pack, but also the degree of water-retention in the skin.

[Sully]

Yup, a person on a raw omnivorous diet can mantain muscle better than a person eating garbage. I exercise everyday, but most of the time I am lounging, or doing very moderate movements, walking etc. I maintain/gain muscle and strength very well on a high raw animal foods diet.

You have to keep in mind, even if you got food. Like myself, I still got energy.

If our ancestors had food and still had energy, they were likely to dance, sing, make trinkets, sew, sex etc.
Not all movement/exercise is focused around the actual hunting or gathering.

You can make baskets, tools, spears, cloths, wrestle, play with kids etc.

[Hannibal]

I am not tired and my legs are in no pain at all

Do at least 300 hindu squats in a raw and you'll feel the PAIN  
Several months ago I performed 400 ones in a row after a 2 months brake - as of the next day I was TRULY disabled
But when I do them regularly I feel quite good.

[Sully]

as of the next day I was TRULY disabled

lol

[Hannibal]

That's what you took away from what I wrote right?

Yeah, I probably missed your point a little bit.

[pioneer]

And Pioneer I don't think anyone mentioned being on any low-body fat train except you. If you're getting fat it's Ok =)

Listen, why dont you analyze my post with a little more respect as it seems you took me out of context. And bro, Im leaner than you so me getting fat is not a factor, seems that you'd rather try to insult than have a serious conversation. It is true though, look at the posts on this topic, its all about being lean. Who said anyone had to be lean to be healthy. Its obviously a tradeoff being either lean or fat.

Seems everyone who responded to me took me out of context. Im just the kind of person who likes to shake things up a bit and tell it how it is. Everyone needs to reread my post. It is obvious that I was trying to say being real lean does not correlate with being healthy, nor does being fat necessarily correlate with being unhealthy.

And don't try to say that my post was not relevent to this topic. The post is hunter-gatherer physiques and what they did instead of modern exercises. Do you guys actually think the ideal hunter gatherer physique was to be lean? Are you kidding me? They wanted to store as much energy as possible. You think they were doing sit ups and working on their abs? You guys think they were trying to watch their weight? Get a six pack? You think the women even cared whether the males had six packs or not? Plain and simple, women cared about which man could bring home the bacon, in which case, the kill. Which male could build the best shelter and provide for his young. Which male could perform better.

[Hannibal]

lol

Every time when I perform them after a longer break the PAIN is really excrutiatinig in the "aftermath"
Not comparable with anything.
Sully, do it and you'll see