Raw milk

[ForTheHunt]

Sadly in Iceland it's illegal to sell raw milk >_>

But thankfully I managed to find a farmer who's has started selling me raw milk. Thing is, I've only spoken to him on the phone so I'm a little paranoid he might be selling me pasteurized milk due to fear of me possibly getting sick or something.

Mainly this is just paranoia in me because I've never met the guy, so I'm wondering, is there any way to test the milk and see whether it's raw or not? I know I could test the shelf life but I want some rock solid evidence if it's possible.

[kurite]

Do they also require homogenization in Iceland?

[michaelwh]

Sadly in Iceland it's illegal to sell raw milk >_>

But thankfully I managed to find a farmer who's has started selling me raw milk. Thing is, I've only spoken to him on the phone so I'm a little paranoid he might be selling me pasteurized milk due to fear of me possibly getting sick or something.

Mainly this is just paranoia in me because I've never met the guy, so I'm wondering, is there any way to test the milk and see whether it's raw or not? I know I could test the shelf life but I want some rock solid evidence if it's possible.

The most rigorous method is to get a lab test for alkaline phosphatase. But if raw milk is illegal, then the lab might start asking you "where did you get this milk?"

A more practical method: let it sit out on the counter. If it eventually turns into a tasty sour yoghurt, it's real milk. If it becomes nasty, it's pasteurized poison. Be sure to use a very clean jar, because a bad taste can come from a dirty jar. Also, be sure to wait long enough. In the fermentation process, there's a middle stage, where the milk is no longer fresh, but not yet fully fermented, and does not taste very good.

But the best thing to do, is to visit the farm and watch his milking and bottling operation.

[ForTheHunt]

Do they also require homogenization in Iceland?

No. Although most milk is homogenized there are still non-homogenized options available

[ForTheHunt]

The most rigorous method is to get a lab test for alkaline phosphatase. But if raw milk is illegal, then the lab might start asking you "where did you get this milk?"

A more practical method: let it sit out on the counter. If it eventually turns into a tasty sour yoghurt, it's real milk. If it becomes nasty, it's pasteurized poison. Be sure to use a very clean jar, because a bad taste can come from a dirty jar. Also, be sure to wait long enough. In the fermentation process, there's a middle stage, where the milk is no longer fresh, but not yet fully fermented, and does not taste very good.

But the best thing to do, is to visit the farm and watch his milking and bottling operation.

Ok thanks, I will give this a try. I'll tell you the results.

[majormark]

If you want to get even more paranoid, you can use a device that measures milk density and you can determine if it has been combined with water.

[TylerDurden]

If you want to get even more paranoid, you can use a device that measures milk density and you can determine if it has been combined with water.

Some nasty UK raw milk sellers just lightly pasteurise the so-called "raw" milk they sell. Not sure how that would affect the taste after fermentation.

[donrad]

I have been experimenting with raw milk for the past year. Once a week I get two gallons of raw milk from a farmer that is still warm from the milking. He milks 4 cows by hand. Pretty awesome little farm.

I bring the milk home and put it into a roaster oven that will maintain a temperature of 98' approx. If I add some of the last batch of yoghurt and leave it for 24 hours I have yoghurt. The longer is sits the more sour it gets. Pure and simple. Predigested and symbiotic. Lasts a month or longer in the frig.

If I add a couple of rennet tablets instead of yoghurt in a couple of hours I have raw cheese. Seperate the whey, wrap in cloth, weight it for a day and I have this fantastic cheese. I rub some salt on it, dry it at room temp for a day and it will last indefinately at 50'. Gets better with age.

The leftover whey is probiotic and makes a refreshing drink. It is also good in my perpetual stock pot. If I have lots I feed the plants in my garden.

Previous post is right on. There is naturally occuring beneficial lactobacillus bacteria in grassfed unpasteurized milk. I do not really need to add yoghurt to make yoghurt it will occur naturally, just takes longer. Pasteurized milk putrifies and stinks.

The government stepped in to require pasteurization about the turn of the last century when businessmen started taking the dairy cows off the small farms and putting them in feedlots by breweries to eat the spent grains. Filthy conditions and an unnatural diet resulted in bad milk. Large dairies today still keep their cows in terrible conditions with unnatural diets.

Join the Price-Pottinger Foundation to preserve our heritage. They  fight for raw milk rights.

[ForTheHunt]

I have been experimenting with raw milk for the past year. Once a week I get two gallons of raw milk from a farmer that is still warm from the milking. He milks 4 cows by hand. Pretty awesome little farm.

I bring the milk home and put it into a roaster oven that will maintain a temperature of 98' approx. If I add some of the last batch of yoghurt and leave it for 24 hours I have yoghurt. The longer is sits the more sour it gets. Pure and simple. Predigested and symbiotic. Lasts a month or longer in the frig.

If I add a couple of rennet tablets instead of yoghurt in a couple of hours I have raw cheese. Seperate the whey, wrap in cloth, weight it for a day and I have this fantastic cheese. I rub some salt on it, dry it at room temp for a day and it will last indefinately at 50'. Gets better with age.

The leftover whey is probiotic and makes a refreshing drink. It is also good in my perpetual stock pot. If I have lots I feed the plants in my garden.

Previous post is right on. There is naturally occuring beneficial lactobacillus bacteria in grassfed unpasteurized milk. I do not really need to add yoghurt to make yoghurt it will occur naturally, just takes longer. Pasteurized milk putrifies and stinks.

The government stepped in to require pasteurization about the turn of the last century when businessmen started taking the dairy cows off the small farms and putting them in feedlots by breweries to eat the spent grains. Filthy conditions and an unnatural diet resulted in bad milk. Large dairies today still keep their cows in terrible conditions with unnatural diets.

Join the Price-Pottinger Foundation to preserve our heritage. They  fight for raw milk rights.

Awesome. I just started experimenting with this stuff aswell. Tell me though, your rennet, is it natural calf stomach rennet? I'm having a hard time getting my hands on that stuff. I can only find the GMO microbial crap.

Also, you should try kefir. Then you don't have to buy yoghurt. Kefir works really fast, and you'll have strong yoghurt over night if you have a decent sized culture.

[donrad]

Awesome. I just started experimenting with this stuff aswell. Tell me though, your rennet, is it natural calf stomach rennet? I'm having a hard time getting my hands on that stuff. I can only find the GMO microbial crap.

Also, you should try kefir. Then you don't have to buy yoghurt. Kefir works really fast, and you'll have strong yoghurt over night if you have a decent sized culture.

I just use Junket rennet tablets. They work fine are cheap and readily available at grocery store. And they have a long shelf life.

My original yogurt about a year ago was started with both kefir and yogurt cultures. I add some old to new and it just keeps going. Just like in our intestines the abundance of good bacteria keep the bad ones from thriving.  I have heard of cultures being passed down through generations.

If you just leave the raw milk warm sit it will first turn to what is commonly called yogurt (different peoples have different names around the world) and eventually the acidity will coagulate the protein to form cheese. This is the way it was done for thousands of years. Over time humans have just added a lot of refinements and variations. Some is rather smelly, I personally prefer fresh cheese because it is mild and melts nice. The aged smelly stuff was developed so there would be a milk food in winter when the cows dried up. The best milk, butter, and cheese comes from cows eating lush spring grass and is also highest in omega3 (you can tell this by the nice yellow color).

[ForTheHunt]

For generations? Interesting. Makes sense though

But you should check your rennet tablets.

Theres 2 types of rennet. The stuff that's made from enzymes from calf stomachs. Then there's genetically modified mold rennet, which is probably what you have.

It's basically a type of mold that has been gene spliced to produce these calf enzymes. And the thing is, those molds create byproducts called mycotoxins and honestly the research on this stuff is very little. So I'd avoid this like the plague and try to find the original stuff.

[ForTheHunt]

Here's a picture of my milk experiment;

For those of you who didn't read the original post - I've been buying raw milk from a farmer but wanted to make sure it was actually raw, since selling raw milk is actually illegal.

So to the left you have organic pasteurized milk (not homogenized) and then on the right you have the 'raw' milk. Both glasses have been out at room temperature for 3 days.

And from the looks of it seems raw because there difference is quite clear.

Wouldn't you say donrad, that this is a normal reaction for the milk on the right?

[donrad]

The one on the right looks normal for raw unpasteurized. There is even a nice layer of butterfat on top.

Pasteurizing and homoginizing is a real hassel for farmers. I am sure they would prefer not to.

In the US the get around the law in illegal states by selling shares of the cow to people who want raw milk. It is not illegal to have raw milk from your own cow. You just pay the farmer to milk it.

[donrad]

If I get a gallon of cold milk and keep it in the frig, the cream will rise to the top. I skim the cream and it is called crem fresh. This is great as a sauce and in coffee. Eventually it becomes sour cream. The skim milk is a great drink and eventually becomes somewhat tart but does not taste spoiled.

I leave my whey out after cheese making for a day to let the lacto bacteria take hold. Pre refrigeration ancestors would use this to start the pickeling process to preserve vegetables in crocks. It works great. My pickel bucket is wonderful. Works with cabbage to make kraut also. Less salt is needed when you use whey.

[donrad]

Feeding pasturized homoginized milk from factory cows to babies and children is cruel. It makes them very sick and they cry a lot. They also do not develop well. Their bones, teeth, and joints will not form and grow correctly.

[TylerDurden]

Raw milk discussions should only be placed in the hot topics or weston price or primal diet  forums. Moving it from the general discussions forum.

[raw-al]

Thanks Don etc,
I am interested in a source for natural rennet also. However thanks for the suggestion, we will try in the meantime.

We get raw cheese now from our farmer, but I would like to make my own cheese. Lots of books and videos but they all cook the milk or use pasteurized milk or use heat.

We used to make paneer which is a cooked cheese. Not paleo but boy is it good. Also easy to make.

[PaganAngel]

I just got some raw goats milk today... But I accidentally left it in the freezer in my mom's house! Is it ok to freeze raw milk or would it make it less digestible once I thaw it?

[ForTheHunt]

I just got some raw goats milk today... But I accidentally left it in the freezer in my mom's house! Is it ok to freeze raw milk or would it make it less digestible once I thaw it?

It's OK, the taste and texture will be off, but the nutrition and enzymes will still be there

[TylerDurden]

Freezing for short periods is fine. There are some claims among some RVAFers that long-term freezing for more than a few weeks damages the enzymes, and thawing meats at least does quickly lead to nutrient-loss which is why one should eat meats as quickly as possible once thawed. Note sure how that applies to raw dairy.

[B.Money]

I saw some more posts on raw milk under the introductory form and instead of cluttering up his thread I decided to post here.


In california there are two main raw milk suppliers, organic pastures, and claravale dairy. I have spoken to the owners in person and in e-mail and they mention feeding their cows something like 5lbs of corn a day. They made it sounds like 100% grass fed milk does not really exist in any quantity for sale, and if it did the taste would be terrible. He goes on to mention certain times of the year when the cows eat more pasture than normal, people complain about the taste of the milk every year.

Not sure if anyone realizes this/cares/or if this is just a farm-by-farm issue, but I found it interesting, being that 100% grass fed meats are highly regarded here.

[raw-al]

Our dairy cows are grass / hay fed 100% and there is no taste or quality problems whatsoever. I know what they are fed as we visit the farm to pick up the milk and the others in the cowshare group also go there.

What telephone # did you call and or email address did you use so others can check this out?

[RawZi]

In california there are two main raw milk suppliers, organic pastures, and claravale dairy. I have spoken to the owners in person and in e-mail and they mention feeding their cows something like 5lbs of corn a day. They made it sounds like 100% grass fed milk does not really exist in any quantity for sale, and if it did the taste would be terrible. He goes on to mention certain times of the year when the cows eat more pasture than normal, people complain about the taste of the milk every year.

Not sure if anyone realizes this/cares/or if this is just a farm-by-farm issue, but I found it interesting, being that 100% grass fed meats are highly regarded here.

    What do you mean by "here".  United States or a specific state?

    Who are OP's dry corn suppliers?  Are you sure it's not corn grass?

    Anyway, I visit my cows in the grassy fields every couple of days.  It's not OP in California, but my milk is fantastic stuff.

[cliff]

I saw some more posts on raw milk under the introductory form and instead of cluttering up his thread I decided to post here.


In california there are two main raw milk suppliers, organic pastures, and claravale dairy. I have spoken to the owners in person and in e-mail and they mention feeding their cows something like 5lbs of corn a day. They made it sounds like 100% grass fed milk does not really exist in any quantity for sale, and if it did the taste would be terrible. He goes on to mention certain times of the year when the cows eat more pasture than normal, people complain about the taste of the milk every year.

Not sure if anyone realizes this/cares/or if this is just a farm-by-farm issue, but I found it interesting, being that 100% grass fed meats are highly regarded here.

Claravale has a pretty legit reason as to why they do this imo, cows in nature eat grass and when they would be naturally lactating grass would be full of grain seeds.  Now I'm not too sure on the validity of that but I have had 100% grass fed milk/butter/cheese and OP's stuff, I personally prefer the OP stuff.

[B.Money]

Our dairy cows are grass / hay fed 100% and there is no taste or quality problems whatsoever. I know what they are fed as we visit the farm to pick up the milk and the others in the cowshare group also go there.

What telephone # did you call and or email address did you use so others can check this out?

Claravale farm I talked to the farmer and wife in person and they mentioned basically thats just how all dairy cows worked from the beginning. The organic pastures e-mail was from their site: (carolina.m@organicpastures.com)

RawZi- I just mean that we all strive to get 100% grass fed in general on this site as a whole. Not sure about their suppliers or corn grass--if anyone has any more info on this that would be good. Where do you get your milk, a private seller?