Disturbing Halal meat scandal

[TylerDurden]

There's been a recent scandal where several big British companies deliberately made sure that all the meats they sold were halal, without telling anyone(except presumably  Muslim community leaders):-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11375523

 This wasn't necessarily an attempt at Islamicisation, it was just a deeply cynical attempt by companies to avoid extra costs. This is absolutely disgraceful - partly because halal slaughter usually involves a great deal of unnecessary suffering for the animals in question, but also everyone should be allowed to choose what kind of meats they should eat, and be told if there are any different practices involved. I'm hoping that this practice gets crushed, as, if it doesn't , then it opens the door to further restrictive practices happening without the public being allowed to be aware of them. Already, it's been grudgingly admitted that many highly-processed foods from abroad contain small amounts of genetically-modified products from the US etc., without there being any real fines/laws for inadequate labelling, and I wonder what's next:- perhaps an effective ban on grassfed meats because EU laws insist on an even lower slaughtering age for cattle than the far too low age-limit they  already have now, or perhaps even a  future ban on any meats being sold raw due to retarded hysteria re  absurd food-poisoning claims etc.?

[yuli]

Those greedy halal-meat eating bastards...how dare they trick people....

But who cares, most people have no clue how their meat comes to their table these days anyway, is eating halal any better then eating meat from factory farms, is one less cruel than the other? I think not. People who ate this and didn't want should've asked what they were eating in the first place.

In restaurants they don't serve only pastured meat, they serve any meat... factory, grain-fed meat etc. and I don't see them always labeling whether a steak was from a grain-fed cow, or if that cow was sitting in a crowded factory and how it was treated etc (at least here I don't see it any place I went to eat, in a restaurant the menu usually just says STEAK, CHICKEN etc, you have to ask about it).

They did say "The chicken we use is Halal and people using the canteen would know if they asked a member of staff directly.", soooo like in any restaurant I would ask them where the meat came from if I cared. Just as people don't know how to read ingredients in food labels they have no clue about anything they're eating, meat usually included, that's why they are 'tricked' so easily, because they don't give a crap anyway.

On another note, I read that the animal can be stunned before being killed halal-style (and it would still be considered true halal since its not yet dead), so if they allow that then its a little less inhumane. I like my meat bloody though.

[goodsamaritan]

Is halal meat a bad thing?

[PaleoPhil]

Interestingly, selling unlabeled halal and shechita (kosher) meat has already been banned by the EU due to the practice being viewed as "inhumane". All Halal and shechita slaughtering have apparently been completely banned in Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand (http://www.shechitauk.org/news-resources/resources/resources/article/label-or-libel-asks-chanoch-kesselman.htmle, http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/faith-leaders-accuse-eu-of-discrimination-over-compulsory-labelling-of-halal-foods-2030348.html).

Beware, Tyler. How long before all meat is heavily taxed and even more heavily regulated in Europe because of the growing view that all meat is "inhumane" and unhealthy from which these regulations spring?

[TylerDurden]

Those greedy halal-meat eating bastards...how dare they trick people....

But who cares, most people have no clue how their meat comes to their table these days anyway, is eating halal any better then eating meat from factory farms, is one less cruel than the other? I think not. People who ate this and didn't want should've asked what they were eating in the first place.

In restaurants they don't serve only pastured meat, they serve any meat... factory, grain-fed meat etc. and I don't see them always labeling whether a steak was from a grain-fed cow, or if that cow was sitting in a crowded factory and how it was treated etc (at least here I don't see it any place I went to eat, in a restaurant the menu usually just says STEAK, CHICKEN etc, you have to ask about it).

They did say "The chicken we use is Halal and people using the canteen would know if they asked a member of staff directly.", soooo like in any restaurant I would ask them where the meat came from if I cared. Just as people don't know how to read ingredients in food labels they have no clue about anything they're eating, meat usually included, that's why they are 'tricked' so easily, because they don't give a crap anyway.

On another note, I read that the animal can be stunned before being killed halal-style (and it would still be considered true halal since its not yet dead), so if they allow that then its a little less inhumane. I like my meat bloody though.

There are some Muslim imams who allow stunning before slaughter - I believe kosher does not allow such an exception at all, according to reports.

Actually, more and more people are turning vegetarian or vegan due to concerns re animal-rights issues and an even larger component are into improving the environment and food-quality re eating grassfed meats etc. I do think all meats should be labelled "grainfed" or "grassfed". To be fair, almost all grassfed meat that I've seen in certain restaurants or grassfed burger-chains has been labelled clearly as such, in order to distinguish it from unhealthy grainfed meats.

[TylerDurden]

Interestingly, selling unlabeled halal and shechita (kosher) meat has already been banned by the EU due to the practice being viewed as "inhumane". All Halal and shechita slaughtering have apparently been completely banned in Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand (http://www.shechitauk.org/news-resources/resources/resources/article/label-or-libel-asks-chanoch-kesselman.htmle, http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/faith-leaders-accuse-eu-of-discrimination-over-compulsory-labelling-of-halal-foods-2030348.html).

Beware, Tyler. How long before all meat is heavily taxed and even more heavily regulated in Europe because of the growing view that all meat is "inhumane" and unhealthy from which these regulations spring?

Well, Britain , unlike other European countries, has been altogether fanatical about adopting EU laws quite strictly - normally, I am not at all pleased with that practice, but , in this one instance, I think it's great. I've heard of various kosher/halal scandals re dodgy practices in the past so I am wary of such entering the food-chain. Admittedly, my own preference for grassfed meats avoids the whole issue, thank god.


The US, actually, seems to be more anti-meat in general, with mentions of "Meatless Mondays" being introduced in schools etc. The US authorities also tried to ban raw oysters in Florida and raw dairy in many US states.
Come to think of it, I always remember my first trip to the US and finding to my astonishment that I was being asked for my ID, when I was clearly 20 years old, hardly a teenager. Finding out that the US had reverted to a semi-Prohibition-type law forbidding people under 21 from buying alcohol, I was most surprised, to say the least.

At any rate, I don't think we're at too much risk as people like animal foods. We just have to make sure that grassfed meat farmers don't go out of business.

[Brother]

There are some Muslim imams who allow stunning before slaughter - I believe kosher does not allow such an exception at all, according to reports.

This is true. The basic reasoning is that as much blood must leave the animal before storing as possible. And then the imams work with variable interpretations, mostly based on what culture they are from. But that is the basic idea. It comes from this in the case of muslims and "halal":

Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful. (Quran 6:145)

The difference of bleeding between an animal knocked out and one that is not is minimal, since these bodily functions are entirely disconnected to contiousness. The large majority of sane imams refuse to make an issue of it. As long as the basic premise is kept. 1.bleed as much as possible 2.dedicate to God by uttering "Bismillah"(in the name of God) when you take its life.

The only ones who insist on it being done without the use of cashknocker bolt pistols are the scumbags who abuse religion for their own political ends. They are easy to spot. They always make a lot of fuzz about looking the right way, with the funny hat and whole thief of baghdad theme going on there, but as soon as they open their filthy bearded gobs you realise that they do not posses an iota of spirituality and I am hardpressed to point out what humanity is left in them.

I understand why companies are doing what they doing. What I dont understand is why they dont just Kosher slaughter the whole thing since kosher is allowed for muslims as well. For as long as our treatment of animals while they are alive are as asbysmall as it is. I find it incredible hipocrate to mourn the last 10 seconds of the animals life. (not pointed at anyone here mind you)

[Brother]

To add. The argument they are making does not adress what the text states;

Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful. (Quran 6:145)

So their argument for halal slaughtering as we know it today is entirely flawed, because they argue that all meat that has not been said "bismilah" over is by default dedicated to other than God. But it states that those who are muslim should not eat meat that is blasphemously dedicated(*) to other deities. Just like their borg cube in mecca this is just another way to extract money from well meaning religious people. But hey...I'm no scholar, I dont have the ability to read into the text what is not there, like they do.

(*)like an animal slaughtered in a heathen rite, obviously.

what I am trying to get at is basically that both sides of the halal conflict just use it for their own political ends. The arab imams are dishonest about what constitutes "halal" and the western politicians try to make an issue out of a non issue. They know well why the companies do it, as Tyler so rightly points out, but thats not how it is aired is it?

[yuli]

Actually, more and more people are turning vegetarian or vegan due to concerns re animal-rights issues and an even larger component are into improving the environment and food-quality re eating grassfed meats etc.
I do think all meats should be labelled "grainfed" or "grassfed". To be fair, almost all grassfed meat that I've seen in certain restaurants or grassfed burger-chains has been labelled clearly as such, in order to distinguish it from unhealthy grainfed meats.

I can only speak for where I live now, Canada....People here are always turning vegan, or low carb., or all organic or something else, it's been like that since I am living in here. There is always some kind of diet fad going on. MOST people here LOVE meat and will continue eating meat animal issues aside, I am talking about the general population. So as long as most people are interested in meat, which will be forever, and the concern for environmentally healthy food is growing, people will start buying more and more grassed meat or at least organic meat. I am not worried about grassfed meat going out of business because of this. Actually its good that people still buy the grain-fed one which means MORE grassfed meat for ME, lol....if EVERYONE who eats meat starts buying only grassfed there might not be enough because there are too many people in the world, we can't feed everyone grassfed even if they wanted. So the dumber, poorer or indifferent people can keep on eating all grain-fed meat, more for me and quite a few others that do care about animals or just their health.

In most supermarkets, health food markets, meat IS labeled, like free run organic eggs, grainfed organic meat, antibiotic-free, hormone-free meat, wild caught fish, grass fed meat etc....but not so much in restaurants. I am not talking about some SPECIAL restaurant but everyday ones that are everywhere. So people do have a choice when it comes to shopping for their own meat but not so much when eating out, just like it has always been.

I remember when the organic "fad" started there was a big broo-ha-ha about getting stores to label ALL their products that are organic because people started to care. Well people keep on getting more interested in environment but they will always generally eat meat, so its only some time before there is a "grassfed" fad about to happen, lol  

[laterade]

that just makes me sick   

LOL im glad I woke up and started questioning   

[the PresiDenT]

I remember when the organic "fad" started there was a big broo-ha-ha about getting stores to label ALL their products that are organic because people started to care. Well people keep on getting more interested in environment but they will always generally eat meat, so its only some time before there is a "grassfed" fad about to happen, lol  

how do u think we could kickstart the importance of grassfed meat? most people look at u strange when u say that, as they dont see the dif. mind u, most people eat grains so do not see any problem with it... I WANT TO PALEOIZE THE WORLD!!!!

[Alan]

>>>   The basic reasoning is that as much blood must leave the animal before storing as possible

nonsense.  The basic reasoning is that death must be due, beyond a shadow of a doubt, from the knife cut which was accompanied by the bismillah.

for quite some years now, every lamb slaughtered in New Zealand has been both (a) unconscious at slaughter, and (b) had a Halal slaughter.

Schechita does not require or allow, cutting of the entire throat.  It has been demonstrated time and time again that a PROPERLY done schechita slaughter, results in an animal becoming unconscious before it knows it has suffered a cut.  Of course, such PROPER  schehita is time consuming.  We do not want to offer assurances about kosher abattoirs in real-life modern commerce