Vaccinations on the road to becoming compulsory?

[PaleoPhil]

This year my employer in the healthcare industry is asking us employees to complete an "Influenza Vaccination Verification questionnaire" to "help identify barriers to vaccination and to document vaccines received elsewhere." It sounds like they are moving more toward requiring everyone get vaccinations.

They have a Q&A on flu myths that I didn't read yet, but it's probably like the federal government version at http://www.flu.gov/myths/. One thing it says is:

"Why do some people not feel well after getting the seasonal flu shot?
The most common side effect of seasonal flu shots in adults has been soreness at the spot where the shot was given, which usually lasts less than two days. The soreness is often caused by a person's immune system making protective antibodies to the killed viruses in the vaccine. These antibodies are what allow the body to fight against flu. The needle stick may also cause some soreness at the injection site. According to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), rare symptoms include fever, muscle pain, and feelings of discomfort or weakness. If these problems occur, they are very uncommon and usually begin soon after the shot and last 1-2 days."

I have gotten most of these flu-like symptoms after every flu vaccination I've had (which is three or four, as I recall), although they seem to diminish some with each vaccination. While it's not a real flu, it wasn't pleasant and in one case lasted for over 2 days. So I don't see the point of going through that every year when I haven't had any flulike illnesses in four years and the last one had symptoms milder than what the vaccine produces in me and I don't have direct contact with patients.

Does anyone have good reasons I can give for why I shouldn't have to get an annual influenza vaccination?

[RawZi]

    As for my history, no one that I know of in my biological family has ever had one flu vaccine. We've rarely had flu either.  I don't think anyone had it more than 3 times in their life.  No one has died from flu of my biological relatives including myself nor become permanently injured from flu.  When offered the flu vaccine, all I had to say was a brief polite "I am allergic to eggs".  I got no argument whatsoever.  Why would they not push, if it's important to my good health to vaccinate?  Dh got flu vaccine, passed the flu to us and we all got miserably ill.  He swore off flu vaccine after that, as he felt well before the vaccine.

    Do you eat eggs at work, or does anyone from work see you buy eggs?  If not, try telling them you cannot tolerate eggs.  It was easy for me.  I was vegan, so I knew no one ever saw me with an egg.  Plus, for all I knew eggs might harm me, as I hadn't touched them in decades.

    In my doctors office they were talking about bird flu vaccine a few years ago, everyone terrified of bird flu, pretty anxious to get the vaccine.  When it was my turn to say something, I just said I inoculate myself for bird flu by eating raw birds.  No one responded and they continued to talk about their other fears.  Maybe they thought they misheard me.  Let them be. 

    I haven't been offered flu vaccine since, but I don't have your job.  Do the doctors you work with get flu vaccine injected in to them AND in to their own children?  If not, ask them why maybe?  I hope that can help.   

[goodsamaritan]

google for vaccination exemption forms

[PaleoPhil]

   Do you eat eggs at work, or does anyone from work see you buy eggs?  

Yes, I've eaten eggs in front of many people at work. It's one of the few things I can eat socially at work.

  In my doctors office they were talking about bird flu vaccine a few years ago, everyone terrified of bird flu, pretty anxious to get the vaccine.  When it was my turn to say something, I just said I inoculate myself for bird flu by eating raw birds.  No one responded and they continued to talk about their other fears.  Maybe they thought they misheard me.

Unfortunately, at my workplace I would risk being treated as crazy if I did that (and I've already been laughed at by someone who caught me eating raw meat and she tattled to someone else--luckily they were both just coworkers), but luckily they didn't track bird flu vaccine compliance.

  I haven't been offered flu vaccine since, but I don't have your job.  Do the doctors you work with get flu vaccine injected in to them AND in to their own children?  If not, ask them why maybe?  I hope that can help.  

I don't have to explain to the doctors, it's the administrators who are pushing this on both doctors and me.

I'm going to check out the tracking program at work. I hope it doesn't identify individuals. If it does, I'm not sure that I want to bring negative attention to myself with an affidavit. I Googled and found this http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/vermont.htm, but don't see any vaccine affidavits for adults yet anyway.

[goodsamaritan]

Try this search phrase:

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=90+minute+website&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=vaccine+exemption+form+pdf&hl=en&prmd=iv&ei=HHeyTObjDMOecNTlqegN&start=10&sa=N&fp=9f2370386c77b788

[PaleoPhil]

Try this search phrase:

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=90+minute+website&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=vaccine+exemption+form+pdf&hl=en&prmd=iv&ei=HHeyTObjDMOecNTlqegN&start=10&sa=N&fp=9f2370386c77b788

It brings up mostly the same links. They're mainly for parents of schoolchildren. I may not need a form like that and even if I did, I'm not sure I'd want to make a stink about it at work. I need my job. I'll investigate further at work to see if they're actually tracking individuals or anonymously.

I haven't seen news stories like there was re: the required bird flu vaccinations in NY or heard from the union re: the influenza vaccinations, so maybe they aren't tracking individuals.

[djr_81]

Phil; I'm in at least 2 hospitals a week in NY & NJ but some weeks as many as 4 as part of my job (architecture specializing in healthcare) and have only seen this requested from one. I haven't bothered to comply and no one has said anything.
I do have documented allergies to eggs so will use that card if/when required but until then ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately it sounds like you won't be able to use that as an excuse. I'm not really sure what else you can use as an excuse.

[goodsamaritan]

Call up Patrick Timpone of oneradionetwork.com, I heard he had some forms or one of his resource persons had it.  I thought Aajonus had it.

[the PresiDenT]

from what ive read and learned outside this forum do this:
-remain under the scene for the vaccine/ignore it as long as u can
-Say that u are allergic to eggs, and if they ask for a test eat as much eggs as u can from NOW to the test. This is  because allergy blood tests work by identifying what is in your blood and how much it reacts (it will have a big reaction on the charts....plz correct me if incorrect)
-as of know in canada at least we have the right to refuse these shots. though i am not sure about the usa
-SAY IT DEFIES YOUR EXTREME RELIGIOUS BELIEF!!!!!!!!! RELIGION DEFIES ALL STANDARD BS!!!!! (look at muslims/airport, omish, mormons, ect) If u aint got faith ladies and gents, get some quick. God is Good 

[djr_81]

-Say that u are allergic to eggs, and if they ask for a test eat as much eggs as u can from NOW to the test. This is  because allergy blood tests work by identifying what is in your blood and how much it reacts (it will have a big reaction on the charts....plz correct me if incorrect)

I had an allergy test with years of no eating multiple foods since my last test (wheat, soy, crustaceans, etc.) and each allergy reading went up.

[the PresiDenT]

I had an allergy test with years of no eating multiple foods since my last test (wheat, soy, crustaceans, etc.) and each allergy reading went up.

ya similar things happened to me. i guess the blood is more reactive to these substances now, as it has not been exposed to it at all. makes sense

[sabertooth]

There may be a day where those who resist the venom may have to forge a doctors note for vaccination verification, in order to appease the masters. If your employer or government requires such , then just print out a vaccine record and cut in your name and put in some out of town doctor on the record.

Resistance no matter what is my take on it. Who is really going to hunt down some doctor and interrogate you if you have an official looking reccord. They will just file it away and move on to the other form.

[the PresiDenT]

There may be a day where those who resist the venom may have to forge a doctors note for vaccination verification, in order to appease the masters. If your employer or government requires such , then just print out a vaccine record and cut in your name and put in some out of town doctor on the record.

Resistance no matter what is my take on it. Who is really going to hunt down some doctor and interrogate you if you have an official looking reccord. They will just file it away and move on to the other form.

lol do u think the g**gle machine aka big bro is reading this now and tagging u lol. i suspect it will all be digital records by then, with everyone having retena scan records or more reliable chips in-body.

[sabertooth]

There is another way to fake it, fish for a doctor you can trust and have him or he fake the shots and there by attaining the digital reccords.

Its refreshing to hear from someone who knows where the machine is going, once everyone is on the government healthcare grid then there will be mandatory physicals, and mental evaluations and all reccords will be entered into the mega database. This is going to happen if things continue on the same course.

[RawZi]

I thought Aajonus had it.

    I remember seeing his vaccine exemption form.  It's probably on the wewant2live site.  I think aajonus recommends this site too in relation to vaccine exemption: http://www.unhinderedliving.com/statevaccexemp.html

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks for the ideas folks. I looked into it and it looks like my response to the vaccine questionaire does go in my records. I think I might choose one of these two reasons that the questionnaire offers:

1) "I am opposed to vaccines for philosophical, ethical, or religious reasons."
But I wonder if that will be viewed as a wacko answer.

2) "I think the influenza vaccine could harm me."
But they may just tell me that it's perfectly safe. The other options are lame.

Options they didn't give me:
> Influenza vaccines don't work as well as claimed.
> According to the research, vitamin D appears to work better, and it's my antiviral of choice.
> I don't think it makes sense to inject new and poorly understood stuff into people with needles, producing unknown effects, instead of following the tried and true path of getting sufficient vitamin D.
> First do no harm: I don’t believe in injecting stuff into people, especially immune-sensitive people, when it isn’t necessary.

Some references:

Winter flu jabs evidence queried
There is not enough evidence to support the policy of immunising people against seasonal flu, an expert has claimed.
26 October 2006
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6087270.stm

Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children
January 25. 2006
The Cochrane Collaboration: Cochrane Reviews
http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004879.html

Clin Exp Immunol. 2009 Oct;158(1):20-5.
Vitamin D and respiratory health.
Institute of Food Research, Norwich, UK
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19737226?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=8

'Roid Rage: Vitamin D3 -- DO IT (Part II)
NOVEMBER 10, 2009
http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2009/11/roid-rage-vitamin-d3-do-it-part-ii.html

Thumb your nose at swine flu
William Davis, MD
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 29, 2009
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/thumb-your-nose-at-swine-flu.html

[goodsamaritan]

Do you live in a slave camp?

Don't you have the right to just say NO, you don't like it?

Isn't personal choice acceptable in your country?

[PaleoPhil]

We can say no, we're just supposed to give a reason. It's not the whole country, it's just schools, certain hospitals and maybe some other organizations I'm not aware of. At any rate, this was a good exercise to crystallize my reasons for why I prefer not to get influenza vaccinations in the future.

BTW, just to be clear, I don't mean my posts to imply anything about vaccinations in general, whether others should get vaccinations, etc., and I don't want to get into a debate with anyone over the pros and cons of vaccinations. The stuff I posted above is only meant to show that I think there are other rational reasons for not wanting an influenza vaccine and it stinks that I can't choose them, though the "could harm me" one comes somewhat close (but they've written it in a way that sounds like it's based in fear instead of science, because they want to encourage people to get vaccinated).

[goodsamaritan]

We can say no, we're just supposed to give a reason.

True freedom of choice does not demand any reason though.

How about just saying no because I don't believe in that cr*p?

[RawZi]

I can't choose them, though the "could harm me" one comes somewhat close (but they've written it in a way that sounds like it's based in fear instead of science, because they want to encourage people to get vaccinated).

    Yeah, I agree, working with them I would not choose anything in the least that sounded like I thought their medicine might harm someone for an unknown reason or harm someone because it has mercury in it etc.

True freedom of choice does not demand any reason though.

How about just saying no because I don't believe in that cr*p?

    One could need to be careful here in this country.  You have to evaluate your situation for yourself.

[goodsamaritan]

Here's another technique I tell our nannies if the health officials knock on our doors and me and my wife are out of the house:

Just tell them we've already been vaccinated by our private doctor.

Surely they aren't "nazi enough" to rifle through your files or ask you for your "PAPERS" to prove you had been vaccinated ahead of time!

[RawZi]

Just tell them we've already been vaccinated by our private doctor.

    They may say ok, show us the vaccine records next month.  You don't show it next month, they try to vaccinate.  You don't let them, they threaten or something else.

[goodsamaritan]

    They may say ok, show us the vaccine records next month.  You don't show it next month, they try to vaccinate.  You don't let them, they threaten or something else.

Okay.  You guys do live in "nazi" times.  History repeats itself.  Papers please.  Papers.

Can you get a doctor friend to sign a fake certificate?

[Rob]

Why the fear over:

1) "I am opposed to vaccines for philosophical, ethical, or religious reasons."

I chose this to avoid a mandatory vaccine when returning to graduate school. People don't like confrontation. No one will question this. At least that is true where I live.

[Brother]

it was debated here during the "swineflu" scare. Thankfully, our medical professionals told the gobmint to STFU! And then they put the facts on the table: "With our whole system in place 1000 people weakened from other things, die from the normal flu every year. This new one had taken 2 lives, and in both cases they were not entirely sure the "swineflu" was the real cause.

When it was "bird flu" that was the big scare, they actually said the same thing, but the government still went out and spend truckloads of money on vaccines....that nobody really wants. So now they try to load it off in the elderly and weak. I have a felling that forced vaccinations could ignite the growing anger and distrust in the government after 10 years of neocon policies (we dont have neocons, thats why its so strange!).

I had the swineflu. It was a pest. its like a flu that never really gets off ground but stay in the early states for 2 weeks and then goes away in a day or 2. I much prefer the old kind, atleast then you feel like you have a reason to stay in bed!