pet food

[RawZi]

    I would like to dedicate this thread to raw pet food, and I will get back to it later, but i ask one thing for today. Please email me here at my rawpaleoforum inbox telling me of a meat grinder I can put whole chicken in for my cats to eat. I want to get a grinder for this purpose today. You are also welcome to tell me it is a bad idea if it is. I will probably get one today any way.

[ForTheHunt]

I wouldn't give them raw chicken. Chicken raw can be dangerous if it's mass produced stuff.

[raw]

my husband takes care  lots of pets when he was little boy in his country. for dogs, raw meat and bones and for cats, raw liver. they stayed very healthy. in his culture, they don't put dogs /cats inside homes. so these animals run in the wild and get extra exercises to maintain good health. they belongs to the nature.

[RawZi]

    My cats and I both eat raw free range chicken and have been doing so for years. Lower quality chicken at all is nasty.  Birds and mice raw are natural food for cats.  My cats are very old, although only the one is bony and blind.  She does like calves liver.  It is good to see them eat. Cooked food makes arthritis and blinder.  They used to hunt exclusively. They hunted every kind of small animal and ate pigeon eggs.

    Thank you both.

    Waiting to hear about grinders.

[kurite]

I know this doesn't answer your question but why not just feed your cats a chunk of chicken?

[RawZi]

    I give them chicken chunks, scallops, salmon, pork, bison etc. This cat seems to be suffering bone deterioration. I've read from raw foodists in the past where their cats died early from this cause they only gave them raw meat with no bone. When a cat catches a mouse they eat bone too. Chickens are bigger than mice. I need to break the chicken down along with the bone small enough to swallow. Cats are different than people, they don't like fat nor carbs. They do need bone and organ and probably blood to eat.

[yuli]

Cats fed a raw meat diet definitely need bone in their diet.
If your cats are finicky and don't want to eat the chicken bones then you must grind up the bones with meat and serve that to them.
If you have no grinder yet, a calcium supplement MUST be added to the meat (its not as good as the calcium they will get from bones but its better then nothing).
Also a lot of people feeding cats raw add a taurine supplement as well, especially if you grind the meat and bones and have to freeze some for later, then add taurine after defrosting it and serving, even if not frozen adding a little more taurine wont hurt.
My cats are finicky so I am going to wait till I get a grinder to feed them pure raw, they only like the meat nicely cut up for them they dont like chewing bones  spoiled kitties.
Now they get 2 kinds of food, raw meats and organs cut into pieces, and a high quality kibble that has no grains in it.
They have been very healthy so far, my oldest cat is 10 but she acts like a kitten. 
I can't wait to get a grinder too and make a delicious bone/meat mix, then I'll feed that with the meat chunks.

Also I noticed cats like very fresh meat, they don't like it aged. I wait for my meat to sit out rot and dry a bit, then they don't want it any more even though I find it the best. But if I come back with fresh meat from the butcher they are all over it. Finicky fools 

[Sully]

slanker's bison dog cat food mix

[RawZi]

... a calcium supplement MUST be added to the meat (its not as good as the calcium they will get from bones but its better then nothing).
Also a lot of people feeding cats raw add a taurine supplement as well, especially if you grind the meat and bones and have to freeze some for later, then add taurine after defrosting it and serving, even if not frozen adding a little more taurine wont hurt.
My cats are finicky so I am going to wait till I get a grinder to feed them pure raw, they only like the meat nicely cut up for them they dont like chewing bones  spoiled kitties.
Now they get 2 kinds of food, raw meats and organs cut into pieces, and a high quality kibble that has no grains in it.
They have been very healthy so far, my oldest cat is 10 but she acts like a kitten. 
I can't wait to get a grinder too and make a delicious bone/meat mix, then I'll feed that with the meat chunks.

Also I noticed cats like very fresh meat... Finicky fools 

    What calcium supplement do you think would be best until I find a good grinder?  Would coral calcium be it? Bonemeal?  Any idea on what company might make the best calcium a cat could use?  Also, when I mixed a supplement in their food the other day, they wouldn't eat the food, even though I know they were hungry.  Mine are old, mid to late teens.  I'm not sure I have taurine.  I should buy in any case.  I think there are other amino acids and vitamins.  I have a mix to add to vegan catfood.  No, I never gave them a vegan meal.  I bought it, I guess considering it.  I'm sure it's too old anyway. 

    The bony one will only eat if I'm right there AND the other cat isn't eating and in most cases feeding each small bite by hand and even then eats slow.  Gets turned off food easy too, but also is hungry frequently, probably hyperthyroid.  the vet suggested the rx, but said too old to treat.  Should I give raw fresh thyroid? Thymus? Adrenal?  I never give dry food anymore.  Did years ago.  I do give an occasional can of grainfree nonfish freerange. 

    That's so cool, that you say the mix will be delicious.  That's important.  I think they know our thoughts or feelings about the food, it helps.  Yes, my cats too will only eat fresh.  I like highmeat too, but they only want the freshest.

     

[RawZi]

slanker's bison dog cat food mix

    Sully, I bought a pound of USWellness dog cat mix, I think it was from beef.  They wouldn't touch it.  I ate it.  They like bison, especially the older bony one likes it, well usually.  A few days or weeks only likes bison, a few days or weeks only likes pork, will only eat one food for days, avoids the others like there's something wrong.  It's rare they'll ever touch beef, and even then will only eat it one meal.  I should have known.  I will try the slankers, thank you, and add taurine and calcium probably.      

[yuli]

    What calcium supplement do you think would be best until I find a good grinder? 

Ground egg shells, cheap and easy.
The thing is cats need the proper phosphorus to calcium ratio.
Meat already contain lots of phosphorous - but eggshells have high calcium low phosphorous.

Also an interesting article you may want to read:
http://www.pet-grub.com/whats_new_pussy_cat/bones_are_not_the_best_source_calcium_for_dogs_and_cats
Basically it says that wild cats rarely always eat the bones of their pray and that blood, not the bones are their essential calcium source.
Bones are also high in phosphorous too BTW and it says that cats fed too much bones can suffer kidney problems.
So basically adding eggshell is more natural then adding too much bone to their raw meat because it balances more the ratio.

I don't know about the multivitamin I think they get all their other needed vitamins from meat, but if the meat was frozen I would add the vitamin in tiny amounts then.

When I finally devise my ground cat food recipe, I will probably include just a small amount of ground bone and mostly egg shells as the calcium source.
I will also add some high quality - low vit A - cod oil every few days to their meat.
I think my cats would like the ground meat more, they can get finicky even with the meat chunks and well, they are spoiled, ground meat will mimic the canned food they always love so I think they'll go for it. Maybe I'll do half ground half chunks because its good for their teeth to rip, but they don't like ripping so I brush their teeth once a week anyway.