Author Topic: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?  (Read 22025 times)

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Offline the PresiDenT

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vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« on: October 19, 2010, 01:48:51 pm »
i have read on many of the search engine results vit E comes from nuts/seeds and spinach in low amounts. Is there any meat in particular or some easy way to get it w.o supplements? ty
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 02:03:12 pm »
I know liver has some vit E but not even close to the amount that some seeds and plant foods have.
Sunflower seeds have a comparatively huge vit E content then most other foods.
So I would say that eating a little sunflower seeds is a good and easy to eat natural vit E supplement. Its not meat but you don't need to eat a lot of them so unless you're ZC go for some of those as a small snack  :)

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2010, 02:52:53 pm »
Raw organ meats have plenty of vitamin E in them, also raw eggs.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 03:10:01 pm »
Organ meats? There is very little of vitamin E in them. Look at the nutritiondata.
Egg yolks, fatty wild fish, cod liver oil are more rich in it.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 03:11:18 pm »
Organ meats? There is very little of vitamin E in them. Look at the nutritiondata.
Egg yolks, fatty wild fish, cod liver oil are more rich in it.
I doubt that vitamin E is needed in such high quantities, so I meant that the vitamin E in organ-meats was enough.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2010, 03:48:22 pm »
I doubt that vitamin E is needed in such high quantities
I doubt it too.
The more PUFA someone eats the more vit. E he/she needs to prevent oxidation of these unstable and reactive fatty acids.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000103000000000000000-w.html -  you see the correlation?
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2010, 03:56:06 pm »
I simply do not believe in the anti-PUFA hysteria such as shown by Ray Peat and other dodgy gurus.
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Offline MrBBQ

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 07:28:19 pm »
It's well established that PUFAs contribute to oxidative stress, including oily fish like salmon and tuna, so eat PUFAs sparingly and one's that come complemented with anti-oxidant vitamins D, A and E.

I'd prefer to stick to ruminant meat rather than oily cold water fish whose fatty acid profile is sculpted for a different ecosystem.

A diminished intake of n-6 requires less n-3, so reduce n-6 to the minimum and automatically reduce the requirement for n-3. It's the same with vitamin E - minimise PUFAs and minimise need for tocopherols/tocotrienols (needed to protect these oily/fluid unstable fatty acids in higher temperature environments i.e. out of cold water).

Sunlight causes oxidation reactions wherever there's high concentration of PUFA in the skin - hence wrinkling (collapse of collagen, GAGs etc.) by the sun...

A good quality non-esterified vitamin E supplement might be worth it if you have high markers of oxidative stress...Saying that, best to eat less oxidative food...

Coconut oil is a mitigator of oxidative stress, if you can tolerate it (and not use it for nourishing over animal fats). Some people are recommending "coconut cream" with its full complement of nutrition, although we must remember that coconuts include the mineral binder phytic acid, which represents anti-nourishment - this is not in coconut oil (only in coconut cream/milk).

Kombucha is also a mitigator of oxidative stress, if you are in a position to consume fermented foods (sadly, they're too acidic for my teeth at the moment). Fermented food increases glutathione peroxidase production/activity, which is an awesome free radical scavenger (like superoxide dismutase).

What about things with high ORAC values like goji, schisandra, rooibos tea etc.?
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 07:56:35 pm »
Sunlight causes oxidation reactions wherever there's high concentration of PUFA in the skin - hence wrinkling (collapse of collagen, GAGs etc.) by the sun...
Thus there is a little sunlight in the north, where more PUFAs are available and a lot of sunlight in the south where there is more SFA.
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Offline miles

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 10:32:57 pm »
Does anyone else find that they can eat a higher level of fat in the form of nuts, seeds and avocados, but that the same amount from animal fat would make them feel sick?
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2010, 02:25:52 am »
I doubt that vitamin E is needed in such high quantities, so I meant that the vitamin E in organ-meats was enough.

No vitamin is NEEDED in high quantities in the optimum conditions, but were are not living in optimum conditions so it wont hurt either.
If someone is looking to supplement or up a certain vitamin there should be a reason and something like vitamin E is not toxic in higher quantities (unless you start gorging on it), it has many, many, many beneficial effects rather. Its the same with vitamin C, we don't need that much, many ZC'ers do well on little vitamin C, but consuming a fruit that has a crap-load of vitamin C, although not needed, can be very beneficial supplement for MOST people.

MrBBQ good fish oil does contain lots A, D and sometimes E. Does it not?

I don't think that eating some fatty fish a few times a week or taking some fish oil will give you too much PUFA, thats ridiculous, unless those are the ONLY things you eat! THere are too many other nutrients in other foods that balance it out. Just about every fat I eat has lots of omega-6 - I doubt I am getting harmed by this PUFA intake, in fact it makes feel very good. I have tried gorging on PUFA filled diet for small stretches and in no way did I feel like I was consuming bad fats, given I was also eating other things with a lot of vitamins.

Also many tribes lived on a LOT of fish, and were healthy, is that not true? I believe someone can thrive on seafood/fatty fish and plants alone, just as someone can thrive on red meat & its fat too.

Does anyone else find that they can eat a higher level of fat in the form of nuts, seeds and avocados, but that the same amount from animal fat would make them feel sick?

If I eat too much fat from either animals or seeds/nuts I will feel unwell, so I try to consume a lot of fat but no go overboard on it. If I eat too little fat I'll also feel bad too. Sometimes I crave the fat from land animals/red meat, sometimes I crave the fat thats in seeds, plants or fish...I believe they are all beneficial fats when taken in equilibrium. Especially that even the grass-fed organic cows we get are still not as perfect as truly wild animals living on a truly natural diet. I have eaten the right quantity of fish fat and seeds and felt awesome energy, just as I would with land animal fat, even better at times as it sated me longer for SOME reason (really can't explain why). So I doubt one is better or more toxic, anything is toxic when done in excess....I do notice fish fats and nut/seed fats are more forgiving when eaten in excess for me, but red meat fats are less forgiving (although good and potent). Meaning if I eat the correct amount of red meat fats I feel incredible, but if I eat too much or too little I am not a happy camper.

------------

BTW here is comparison of vit E content:
1 large egg yolk >> 0.4 mg E ( 0mg omega3, 0.6g omega6 )
1/8 cup (0.125 cup) of sunflower seeds >> 6.2mg vit E ( 0mg omega3, 4.0g omega6 )...wow

Now for vit D and omega 3:
1 tbsp Salmon oil >> n-3 : 4.8g >> n-6 : 0.2g >> vid D >> none
1 tbsp Cod liver oil >> n-3 : 2.7g >> n-6 : 0.1g >> vit D >> 1360 IU

So if you eat a little cod liver, then later a little sunflower seeds = You have the PERFECT omega 3 and omega 6 ratio, as well a nice amount of vit E and vit D...whats wrong with that.
I did that a few times, had some cod liver oil and ate some sunflower seeds, I felt very good... not at all sick...only had good energy.

Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2010, 02:30:17 am »
Thus there is a little sunlight in the north, where more PUFAs are available and a lot of sunlight in the south where there is more SFA.

Also I don't live outdoors in the sun all day, actually its usually evening by the time I go outside and bike, run etc So given I am not getting optimum sun, this is why I feel nice when taking omega-3 rich foods with extra vitD and why I like the sunflower seeds to increase vit. E as well.
Again none of this is needed in high amount, but my conditions (and most people) are NOT natural, so why not offset bad conditions with super foods...nothing wrong with that IMO it helps me.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 03:06:24 pm »
I like the sunflower seeds to increase vit. E as well
That's pointless.
When you eat sunflower seeds you eat lots of PUFA (omega-6), so you need vit. E to prevent oxidation.
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 03:44:59 pm »
That's pointless.
When you eat sunflower seeds you eat lots of PUFA (omega-6), so you need vit. E to prevent oxidation.

No its not pointless because I get shitloads of omega-3 as well extra vit E, I eat best quality cod liver oil and/or flax oil close to when I eat the sunflowers, which balances out omega 6, and even my cod liver oil has some extra vitamin E on top of that, as do my meats that are grass-finished and the plant I eat, so really it all balances out. Oh and I often sprinkle the sunflowers on my veggies (and no I have no bad digestion from this), and these veggies often provide vitamin E even further.

Peoples precious coconut oil and avocados contain loads of omega-6 and no omega-3, avocados contain less vit E and lots of omega-6, and coconut oil doesn't even have vit E, so I guess those are what now, death?
I mean look at the RATIO of vit E : n-6 in an egg yolk and sunflower seed. The sunflower seed has a very high ratio!

It's just I hardly think that a salad with balanced fat ratios and plenty of vitamin E (from vegetables, sunflowers and further intake of cod liver oil) is pointless... In my book thats called tasty yet nutritious live food.
Like is every single molecule of vit E in a sunflower seed used to neutralize the evil PUFA, and absolutely no vit E is used by my body to benefit it, even though the ratio is so high, I don't get it I must be crazy then for sure.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 04:04:39 pm »
coconut oil doesn't even have vit E
You know why? Bacause it constists mainly of SFA, which are very stable and do not need vit. E to prevent their oxidation.
That's a simple biochemical fact. :)
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 04:43:06 pm »
You know why? Bacause it constists mainly of SFA, which are very stable and do not need vit. E to prevent their oxidation.
That's a simple biochemical fact. :)

Yes that true...I forgot that...
But that still doesn't explain that why you said ALL the vit E in sunflower will be used to neutralize PUFA when the RATIO of vit E to PUFA is better then lot of other foods...

Ratio of E/n-6 in a egg yolk >> 0.67
Ratio of E/n-6 in a sunflower >> 1.55

Sunflower has higher ratio of E to n-6 then egg yolk, more free E's in your body from sunflower...ya see

Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 05:46:04 pm »
But that still doesn't explain that why you said ALL the vit E in sunflower will be used to neutralize PUFA when the RATIO of vit E to PUFA is better then lot of other foods...
The RATIO of vit E to PUFA is a nonsense.
PUFA in sunflower are much more unstable than those in animal products.
IMO there aren't any sufficient amounts of vit. E that would prevent all of the negative effects of vegetables's PUFA. 
Quote
Sunflower has higher ratio of E to n-6 then egg yolk, more free E's in your body from sunflower...ya see
Wishful thinking, yuli. ;)
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2010, 06:43:17 pm »
IMO there aren't any sufficient amounts of vit. E that would prevent all of the negative effects of vegetables's PUFA.

I don't think so, you mean eating 4g of fat from a plant source will have significant negative effects...I don't know man, unless you ONLY eat fat from these plant sources (thats called being vegan and not healthy in long term), I do not. In that case we should never eat seeds or nuts or avocados because they have too many negative effects. Well if they do I ain't feeling it, I prefer to be extremely omnivorous and spontaneous in my eating (meaning I have some days with hardly any animal products and some days where I am zero carb, and feel good on both those days) and a lot of people live on a healthy raw yet highly omnivorous diet and do extremely well, so the plant fats they are getting must not be that bad or they are in equlibrium with the animal product and become beneficial.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2010, 06:52:55 pm »
Avodados are different, 'cause they consist mainly of MUFA which make those tiny amounts of omega 6 practically harmless.
Yuli, I don't say that 4 g of sunflower oil will kill you. All I'm saying is that we must be careful. :)
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 07:57:27 pm »
All I'm saying is that we must be careful. :)

Yes I am being extremely careful to not take a whole cup of sunflower seeds and stuff it down my throat, its hard you know... as I dream of having a whole bag of just plain raw sunflower seeds to myself, how great is it to eat a whole bowl of just sunflower seeds as a pose to eating that nice meat on my plate, I work very hard to prevent myself from doing that. lol  ;)
But sarcasm aside.... for me sunflowers are either put on as a salad garnish, or taken in as a small handful when I am on the go and thats all I have...
Or if I am running around all day and I know I may get hungry, I will grab a little with me and along with a piece fruit or another poison of my choice... ;D

Offline the PresiDenT

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2010, 04:47:09 am »
wow guys, did not mean to start war lol. i just find that sunflower seeds DO NOT digest/absorb well if u catch my drift... but i will try a few options. ty
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Offline yuli

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2010, 05:04:36 am »
Nah its not war its just discussion, its how I learn  ;D
I believe the natural form of vitamin E is called Alpha Tocopherol, you could theoretically add a natural Alpha Tocopherol supplement, thats whats added to my cod liver oil by the way.
Although some say that vitamins are best absorbed when they come from real foods, and its mentioned people who are deficient in it are the ones that have some conditions where they can't properly digest dietary fats (Chron's disease?), they say those are the ones that should supplement.
As long as you are properly digesting whatever you are eating you should be absorbing the required vitamins from your foods.

Offline the PresiDenT

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Re: vit E w/o seeds/nuts or spinach...sources?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2010, 05:46:33 am »

As long as you are properly digesting whatever you are eating you should be absorbing the required vitamins from your foods.
everything cept nuts/seeds. specially seeds
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