triglycerides and cholesterol

[a87.pal]

i recently had some super strange symptoms. I want to know if anyone has seen anything like this happen.

I recently went high-fat zero-carb raw-paleo (well almost, added seaweed and lemons for minerals and digestion and used jerky if I got hungry later in day). Much like Lex's meal plan. Eating one meal a day of 1 pound slankers grass-fed beef pet food(10% organs) and 1/4-1/2 pound marrow (gradually increasing over the course of three weeks) and about 2 liters of mineral water.

First week was fine. End of second week slight pain in upper right chest and back. Got blood tests taken from normal doctor and my cholesterol had gone up from 190(5 months ago) to 230 (all in LDL, HDL went down 5 points). Also I got an abdominal sonogram(no gall stones but one small kidney stone in each kidney). Went to Endocrinologist yesterday (third week still on zero carb) and got blood work (cholesterol went up to 255 all in LDL) and triglycerides went up from 80(one week ago, and 50 five months ago) to 290(today). T3 and T4 showed up in "normal" ranges. Glucose dropped from 100 to 73 over course of week and was 88  five months ago.

to recap:

time frame: 5months ago -> 1 week ago -> today
glucose: 88 -> 73 -> 100
triglycerides: 50 -> 80 -> 290
cholesterol: 190 -> 230 -> 255 (HDL 55 -> 50 -> 50)

no gall stones on sonogram
T3, T4 normal
two small kidney stones (perhaps from long ago)

Starting last night I was getting headaches. And I'm eating all raw veggies/saurkraut/kimchi right now...

[goodsamaritan]

You can dissolve kidney stones with a hundred or more lemons.

I would throw out all cholesterol crap BS out the window and never measure that BS.

I wouldn't bet on plain water.  Maybe dissolve some lemon drops in it before drinking for better assimilation.

Maybe your kimchi has MSG if you didn't make it yourself.

[a87.pal]

if it was just a cholesterol increase, then the result would make more sense to me, but the triglycerides are what is confusing and worrying. Also, I checked and my white blood cell count, and liver (distress) proteins increased too. Top that off with the slight pain in upper right chest and back and it seems like my liver is unhappy with the state of things.

the kimchi has no MSG. But I expect digestion wont be as smooth as zero carb.

[goodsamaritan]

might be the kidney stones acting up.
If you dissolved the kidney stones you might improve the way you feel.
Suspect the mineral water, too much inorganic minerals.
Try distilling your own water then squeeze a lemon / orange in your cup, let it stay for 2 minutes before drinking.

If you saw a chiropractor, he might help you diagnose and fix what you got.

[ForTheHunt]

I'd try drinking more water.

I think RZC don't drink enough water. You should be drinking massive amounts.

You don't have to drink it gradually through out the day, in fact I think that's unnatural.

But once or twice a day you should drink a shitload. It will also help promote bowel movements if you are having issues with that.

But IMO RZC is not the way to go, atleast not for me. My brain doesn't function at all with out carbs.

[a87.pal]

i meant spring water (whole foods brand and poland spring) not mineral water (if there is a difference).

I calibrated consumption to make sure my urine was clear by end of day (I ate meal in morning/afternoon). Generally I would have 1/2-3/4 liter before meal. 1/2-3/4 liter 3-4 hours after meal. and 1/2-3/4 liter later in the day sometime.

I had never done high amounts of water until 3 weeks ago. Before that mainly used raw fruits or juices for hydration.

[kurite]

How long have you actually been on the diet. Your body might just not be able to process all the meat and all the previously stored toxins that are trying to be released. I would definitely try a water fast.

[a87.pal]

I first tried raw meat late last year.

Did A fast/calorie restriction where I went from 128 to 110. Then been doing all raw for about 6-7 months (except for jerky and occasionally smoked fish). Until last three weeks used raw butter and fruits and veges for energy.

Have tried all organs and glands. Had bad reactions to testes and adrenal/thyroid.

I have yet to regain weight from fast.

Since I am in a fragile state, I'm not going to do a pure water fast, instead I'm thinking holding back on meat and fat until blood chemistry stabilizes. And instead using veges and citrus for energy in the meantime (probably 3-4 days). I will continue to drink 2+ liters of water a day.

[kurite]

Dump  the raw butter now! I know its tasty but its just not good for you IMO. What kind of a fast was it? How much are you eating? How tall are you, guy or girl? The more info the better.

[a87.pal]

I dumped the raw butter three weeks ago, and replaced with marrow and zero carb. That led me to this state. I am male 23.

The fast was more of just calorie restriction (< 1000 per day). I was eating everything though from grains to raw fats.

[kurite]

It might just be a transition problem. Eating extremely low cholesterol to high cholesterol and fat is a pretty big difference. I would still suggest a water fast and then start eating with fruit again and slowly transition into eating more RAF.

[djr_81]

I'd try drinking more water.

I think RZC don't drink enough water. You should be drinking massive amounts.

You don't have to drink it gradually through out the day, in fact I think that's unnatural.

But once or twice a day you should drink a shitload. It will also help promote bowel movements if you are having issues with that.

Truly great advice for anyone eating "raw carnivore". Anytime I have problems now I can trace it back to a couple days where I got too little water. So long as I drink enough I feel great.
I drink my water during the morning, usually in 1 quart or so quantities at a time, and try to get in at least 1/2 gallon in before my first meal of the day. I drink much less water after I eat as I have less desire, it sits heavier, and I get less benefit from it.

But IMO RZC is not the way to go, atleast not for me. My brain doesn't function at all with out carbs.

I did have that problem at times in the beginning. I function just fine on fat now. It did take trial & error as well as time to get here though.

[a87.pal]

Do any of you guys know the biochemistry that would cause fasting triglycerides levels to triple in a week? This is really puzzling me.

[Rawdietforhealth]

I am reposting comments from another post I made in the general discussion about VLDL levels.  Hope this helps you:


I started my raw diet a month ago and have witnessed the amazing benefits of this diet on the cholesterol levels in my body. After eating an average of 1 to 1.5 lbs of raw grass fed beef a day, 0.5 to 1 lbs of raw tuna and wild salmon, 2 to 3 fertilized raw duck eggs, 1 to 2 raw tomatoes, 1 raw cucumber, fruit in season, 5 to 6 fresh young coconuts along with the coconut water, raw pumpkin seeds for snacks, and a small portion of organic quinoa or brown rice a day (the only cooked portion of the food I eat), 4 - 5 glasses of raw vegetable juice, my cholesterol levels are excellent.

Before I started this diet, my VLDL levels were over 47, they dropped to 30 in two weeks and now are at an amazing 21 (normal range is 2 - 40)  HDL levels improved from 37 to 51 (normal level should be greater than 40) my triglceride level dropped from 238 to 106 (normal range 10 - 200) my overall chol/HDL ratio improved from 5.86 to 3.51 (normal ratio should be below 4.4).  My uric levels did initially increase but have now been brought back to normal levels as I cut back on nuts, ate a bit more fish in place of too much beef and drank more fluids including water with lime juice. Everything else (except for certain ratios affected by prednisone - see my other post) is within normal ranges.

[Hannibal]

I'd try drinking more water.

I think RZC don't drink enough water. You should be drinking massive amounts.

You don't have to drink it gradually through out the day, in fact I think that's unnatural.

That's true. A lot of water is needed.
But the more potassium and sodium is also needed.
It's good to add about 1 g of good salt to 1 liter of water.

But IMO RZC is not the way to go, atleast not for me. My brain doesn't function at all with out carbs.

RZC is not the way for anyone. In the short term it could be ok for some people. But not in the very long term - definitely not.

[wodgina]

When I don't drink water and eat RZC I can get a euphoric feeling sometimes. Anyone try this?

[pioneer]

You can dissolve kidney stones with a hundred or more lemons.

I would throw out all cholesterol crap BS out the window and never measure that BS.

I wouldn't bet on plain water.  Maybe dissolve some lemon drops in it before drinking for better assimilation.

Maybe your kimchi has MSG if you didn't make it yourself.

Goodsamaritan is right, and your triglyceride levels are high most likely due to you losing fat from the small portions you eat. 1lb of meat and a little fat is a negligible amount of food. When we lose fat, triglycerides dump into our blood for excretion. Remember, the visceral and subcutaneous fat on and in your body is made of triglycerides. People who are losing fat always have elevated triglycerides.

As for the cholesterol, consider yourself lucky. It used to be a commonly known fact in medicine that we need at least a total cholesterol level of 180 to make hormones. This is a fact and can be found in medical journals and texts. I actually had to raise my cholesterol just to make sufficient testosterone. I am at 199 right now, but would like to get it much higher.

Never!!! let it get under 180...

Seeing that your glucose dropped to good ranges means that something you're doing is right. The glucose is a way more serious issue that lipids. You previously being at 100 fasting is actually known to be pre diabetic.

[RawZi]

Seeing that your glucose dropped to good ranges means that something you're doing is right. The glucose is a way more serious issue that lipids. You previously being at 100 fasting is actually known to be pre diabetic.

    What are normal fasting bg levels?

When I don't drink water and eat RZC I can get a euphoric feeling sometimes. Anyone try this?

    When I started PD and for the next two year almost all that time I kept my carbs extremely low, and didn't drink water.  I did get the feeling of euphoria.  I think water dissapates it.  I haven't tried regular RZC yet though.  What were you eating?  Only lamb meat, lowsugar organs and lamb fat?

... It used to be a commonly known fact in medicine that we need at least a total cholesterol level of 180 to make hormones. This is a fact and can be found in medical journals and texts. I actually had to raise my cholesterol just to make sufficient testosterone. I am at 199 right now, but would like to get it much higher.

Never!!! let it get under 180...

    I agree.  I felt like crap with low cholesterol levels.  I feel much better within normal range.  My hormones are better too.  Before this diet the MDs thought I had addisons and had already been diagnosed as hypothyroid (low thyroid hormones).

http://nyp.org/health/addison-disease.html Addison's disease is the result of an underactive adrenal gland. An underactive adrenal gland produces insufficient amounts of cortisol (a steroid hormone that helps to control the body's use of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates, suppresses inflammatory reactions in the body, and affects immune system functions) and aldosterone (a steroid hormone that controls sodium and potassium in the blood). Addison's disease is considered rare.

    That was too scary for me (addisons) at that time (they had already dxed me with several other serious "incurable" dangerous to my life conditions that would have been added to), so I stopped going to those doctors, and intentionally neglected to tell the next doctor , which was a few years later.

    My son also had low hormones and low cholesterol.  Some of his hormone levels (more than mine) looked like those of a very old person near death.  His cholesterol was the lowest by far I had ever heard of.  After adding raw grassfed butter to his diet, a lot of it, and getting rid of grains and other vegan foods, his cholesterol is still low, but not unheard of low.  All his hormones are at normal levels, except vitamin D.  Some of his hormones are within the upper ranges of normal, like they should be at his age.

[pioneer]

    What are normal fasting bg levels?


    My son also had low hormones and low cholesterol.  Some of his hormone levels (more than mine) looked like those of a very old person near death.  His cholesterol was the lowest by far I had ever heard of.  After adding raw grassfed butter to his diet, a lot of it, and getting rid of grains and other vegan foods, his cholesterol is still low, but not unheard of low.  All his hormones are at normal levels, except vitamin D.  Some of his hormones are within the upper ranges of normal, like they should be at his age.

Normal fasting BG levels are 70-99 however it is considered that anything over 95 is pre diabetic. I used to have levels over 95 and I felt like hell all the time until this diet.

As for the vitamin D, I know there is some notion by RPD and Primal dieters that supplements are bad, but let me tell you, in this day in age, some of them are absolutely essential. Vitamin D is one of them. Have your son consume at least 5000iu vitamin d a day in the cold half of the year when he is not out in the sun. Since hormones are pretty much just wittled down cholesterol and vitamin d is pretty much cholesterol, a vit d deficiency could def contribute to low hormone levels. Vit d is just one of those things you can't avoid as you either are getting enough or you aren't. It's not like you can cure a vitamin d deficiency without getting vitamin d.

Trust me, there are a lot of medical journals that prove increasing vitamin d increases testosterone and other hormones.

How old is your son? His conditions seem very similar to mine, which I have struggled for years with until this diet and various supplements. Maybe I could help. For one thing, as he goes through puberty, you want to make sure he fully develops into a male. Checking testosterone total, free, and bioavailable, along with SHBG, estrogen (estradiol & estrone), prolactin, cholesterol (total & LDL/HDL), and LH would be a wise decision later in puberty. You want to make sure his male hormones are in high ranges or he'll have problems.

An 18-21 year old male should have very high testosterone, like over 800 at least.

Sounds like everything you are doing with him is great though. Plenty of meat, eggs, butter, fat of any kind raw is great. We make hormones from eating fat, which I'm sure you already know.

I was not able to begin healing my hormonal deficiencies until I began sleeping regularly and soundly. Make sure your son gets in the habit of going to bed and waking up at the same time every day and getting 8-10 hours of sleep per night.

[Rawdietforhealth]

I have now been on a raw food diet for about 10 weeks. My cholesterol levels have steadily declined with VLDL going from 47 to now around 33, LDL dropped from 160 to around 75, but what worried me is that my HDL which was up to 51 is now at 29 so my overall cholesterol level is now at 138 which is actually too low. I have been eating plenty of fat, coconut meat, raw eggs, raw fish and some beef fat.  Over the past week, due to holidays, I did cut back a bit on eggs from having 2-3 to having 1-2 a day and cut back on fresh young coconuts from 6-8 a day to 3-4 a day since it was hard to get more during the past week in the Philippines. I assume cutting back on raw eggs and coconut must have contributed to my drop in HDL cholesterol.  I hope to get more organic duck eggs tomorrow since I am out now due to the holiday season here.  I am increasing my intact of olive oil and actually taking some fish oil supplements in the meantime.  The only other supplements I added over the past month were ginger, turmeric, and boswellia to help reduce swelling in my eye and get me completely off the steroids I was taking before. Any other advice out there about increasing HDL cholesterol?

[pioneer]

I have now been on a raw food diet for about 10 weeks. My cholesterol levels have steadily declined with VLDL going from 47 to now around 33, LDL dropped from 160 to around 75, but what worried me is that my HDL which was up to 51 is now at 29 so my overall cholesterol level is now at 138 which is actually too low. I have been eating plenty of fat, coconut meat, raw eggs, raw fish and some beef fat.  Over the past week, due to holidays, I did cut back a bit on eggs from having 2-3 to having 1-2 a day and cut back on fresh young coconuts from 6-8 a day to 3-4 a day since it was hard to get more during the past week in the Philippines. I assume cutting back on raw eggs and coconut must have contributed to my drop in HDL cholesterol.  I hope to get more organic duck eggs tomorrow since I am out now due to the holiday season here.  I am increasing my intact of olive oil and actually taking some fish oil supplements in the meantime.  The only other supplements I added over the past month were ginger, turmeric, and boswellia to help reduce swelling in my eye and get me completely off the steroids I was taking before. Any other advice out there about increasing HDL cholesterol?

My suggestion is to get your hormones checked to make sure they are in sufficient quantities. sometimes there are people who thrive on lower levels. HDL increases with exercise easy. As long as you are eating plenty of fat and cholesterol, I feel you should be alright. I would take out the tumeric as it is a fairly strong estrogen.

[ys]

i would do another test just to confirm the numbers.  a lot of times labs contaminate samples and resulting in goofy numbers.

if numbers are indeed low, i would do liver tests because liver is the only place where cholesterol get's synthesized and packaged into LDL/HDL for transport.

if liver tests are OK i would not worry about it at all.

[Rawdietforhealth]

It used to be a commonly known fact in medicine that we need at least a total cholesterol level of 180 to make hormones. This is a fact and can be found in medical journals and texts. I actually had to raise my cholesterol just to make sufficient testosterone. I am at 199 right now, but would like to get it much higher.

Never!!! let it get under 180...

Seeing that your glucose dropped to good ranges means that something you're doing is right. The glucose is a way more serious issue that lipids. You previously being at 100 fasting is actually known to be pre diabetic.

Pioneer, I will check on my hormone levels but based on the quote above with my total cholesterol at 138, I am quite a bit lower than the minimum level of 180. My fasting blood sugar is also now at 101 but it jumps from 86 to 102 during the last three tests I took.

[Rawdietforhealth]

YS, my SGPT/ALT and SGOT/ALT are both normal.  Uric jumped back to 8.47.