Marijuana RAW PALEO style? (not smoking/baking to eat)...thoughts opinoins

[Brother]

Interesting thread...the general consensus among self-proclaimed experienced stoners (lol  ) is that eating it is effective but less potent, meaning you need to consume a large amount. Since THC it activates with fat, I wonder if eating it with a large amount of (maybe pure raw fat) will increase the effect from eating it raw, that your stomach acids will use the raw weed with the consumed fat to extract & absorb more of the THC...I will try that experiment next time, I usually buy it in small amount so I don`t want to waste all I have to try this now  but I will definitely try this next time and add lot of raw fat with it, will be curious to see the results!

Chew it together with fat, if you take that route. Eating makes it far more potent. When you burn it you destroy most of the THC before it ever leaves the butt of the Rizla paper as smoke. What people often forget when they eat it, is the fat factor. And that because it is so much more potent, the experience is much different from smoking it.

ye olde time favorite here is called "golden chocolate milk". Chocolate milk+butter (prerferbly Ghee for taste and texture)+hash or weed. You can see what is going on in that recipe.

[kurite]

I have never experienced that ever. I have occationally smoked so much that i felt ill, but I suspect the tobacco I use for joints more than the weed/hash for that one. I have tried to eat as much as 10grams of fresh hash without any adverse effects (besides the ones I wanted).

Not smoking it, eating it raw may cause it. I personally don't use it so I can't say from experience.

[Oldtimer]

I think I can help a bit here
I use this herb for my crohns disease orally and other auto immune disorders
First off, any drug consumption can be bad, they have various effects that some like more than others,
some people become dependent to anything that might enter their life, sure those people should not abuse drugs.
Even though cannabis is a drug and its psycho active, nothing contained in it has showed toxicity
smoking makes me sick, smoke of any kind is poisonous and even though hemp relieves the symptoms i get from poisoning, i feel like its not worth breathing poisonous gasses with my medecine
thats why I use it infused in fat
this way it acts like a balm that travels down my digestive tube, right on the inflamation

even before knowing which food made me flare up, i stopped my bleeding with hemp

so before you start bashing on this precious plant, i advise you to do some research on cannabinoid receptors

[kurite]

@oldtimer
I never said that it wasn't a great plant especially for medicine. It helps my bro out with his anxiety a ton. I'm just not someone who likes it or uses it personally. IMO its the safest drug to use as far as conventional drugs go and is wayyyyyy better then getting fat from alcohol.

[the PresiDenT]

I think I can help a bit here
I use this herb for my crohns disease orally and other auto immune disorders
First off, any drug consumption can be bad, they have various effects that some like more than others,
some people become dependent to anything that might enter their life, sure those people should not abuse drugs.
Even though cannabis is a drug and its psycho active, nothing contained in it has showed toxicity
smoking makes me sick, smoke of any kind is poisonous and even though hemp relieves the symptoms i get from poisoning, i feel like its not worth breathing poisonous gasses with my medecine
thats why I use it infused in fat
this way it acts like a balm that travels down my digestive tube, right on the inflamation

even before knowing which food made me flare up, i stopped my bleeding with hemp

so before you start bashing on this precious plant, i advise you to do some research on cannabinoid receptors

i think the problem with marijuana is that the GMO product is gettin known as weed, when the natural plant low in THC and has a level of active ingredients that are even i find weed makes my brain function at a high level nad i am very creative. i just got some stf with my cousin who had it outdoor and clean good seeds. all the weed i used to get that made me effectively crazy was product X indoor usually. so its like saying VEGETABLES are bad or meat, (like vegtarians) when really just the tampered cows in food inc ect are the shit to stay away from, cut natrualy cows are good to eat

[cliff]

i think the problem with marijuana is that the GMO product is gettin known as weed

There is no such thing as gmo weed....

The wild weed in india is supposedly the most potent stuff around, yogis travel into remote locations to secret spots where they harvest charras(hash) which apparently are borderline psychedelic.

I think its odd that paleo geared eaters are somewhat against drug use when pretty much every single indigenous tribe practices some form of drug ingestion.

The indigenous people of peru say they have received all there knowledge of medicinal plants from ayahusca, medicinal plants that have now been proven by science.

[TylerDurden]

The way I see it, drugs are just a way to get rid of the pain of thought. Waste of time.

[cliff]

The way I see it, drugs are just a way to get rid of the pain of thought. wWaste of time.

This isn't true tho, psychedelic drugs(the ones that most cultures indulge in) don't get rid of pain.

[yuli]

Anything can be used to get rid of the pain of thought, doesn't mean thats JUST what its used for. If a person has problems thinking, regardless or not if they take drugs they will find something to get rid of their pain of thought. There are plenty of thoughtless or ignorant people, or people who can't think for themselves, who do not take drugs.

[KD]

I'm proud to be no expert here, and perhaps learned a thing or two about the infusing and so forth, but I think its believed by some that all plants and herbs have toxic compounds, so saying the plant has 0 toxins - particularly when it IS burned it causes noted chemical effects that say sage or parsley do not - seems to leave one wide open to criticism.

Its a legitimate point (I suppose) that most cultures use some kind of hallucinogenic, however 2 things:

1.) the cultures likely also use tobacco products and or alcohol products as well as teas and other things. does not mean these things have no toxic compounds or that they arent addictive or damaging, particularly when they are removed from their medicinal or ritualistic purposes.

which brings me to 2.) which is how many people are participating in some kind of ritual or spiritual vision quest and how many have a bowl on their coffee table just ready for cartoon network?

[sabertooth]

Marajana is more prevalent than many people want to believe. In colonial America it was widely used by people such as Thomas Jefferson and George washington. I grew up around marijuana culture and have extremely mixed emotions about it.

I know people who have smoked pot daily for most of their lives and have good health and live a good life, without any real problems from it. I smoked it off and on since I was thirteen, there were times when I considered myself a Rastafarian, and there were times when I became disfranchised with it and around the age of nineteen until last year I quit. (when I got sick at about age 21 I wasn't using any drugs and only drank on occasion, and was trying to lead a healthy life.)

Finally, I found a perfect balance, two or three good tokes out of a dugout each day are all I need in order to keep me lifted. It does seem to help my appetite and overall since of well being better than anyother mind altering herb substance.

If you are already THC adapted then there is no real reason to avoid marijuana, I believe there are positive health effects, that are rarely taken seriously. Studies show that marijuana actually protects the brain from alcohol induced damage in binge drinkers. In people with anxiety or are just be Little uptight, it can be very comforting. For people like me who's brain is always working overdrive, it keeps me mellow and more likeable. Some people who are truly mad can become quit docile and civilized after using it. Some of my most fond memory's have been of meandering around under the influence of that beautiful herb

Put that in your pipe and smoke it 

[yuli]

Finally, I found a perfect balance, two or three good tokes out of a dugout each day are all I need in order to keep me lifted. It does seem to help my appetite and overall since of well being better than anyother mind altering herb substance.

Thats exactly what I do, I put a "crumb" size into my pipe and just take one toke, very little compared to how most people smoke it. It's all about balance, just like with the foods you eat you want to obtain a good balance for you.

It is one of nature most beautiful plants, perfect gift from mother-earth in every way! Most animals love to eat it you know, and they don't get poisoned after they eat it. Blame the abusers not the plant...its kind of sad to blame the poor plant, leave the poor plant alone if you don't like it. You plant-haters, lol, just kidding 

[yuli]

Which is how many people are participating in some kind of ritual or spiritual vision quest and how many have a bowl on their coffee table just ready for cartoon network?

More then you think....I know a house full of vegan roommates, they are exceptionally nice, accepting and extremely spiritual people, they all smoke it, they don't own a TV, really, huge house, 8 young adults, not one TV, they are too busy organizing earthly events, great group of people. They are always busy with one thing or another.
I don't own a TV either...you know how many people have a bowl ready for cartoon network? Just as many as the ones that don't have a bowl and are still ready for cartoon network...I know more people that are spiritual and understanding that do smoke it rather then the ones that don't, so what. Its just that every lazy cartoon-watching teenager is also starting to adopt weed, if there was no weed they'd still watch their cartoons, perhaps its better if they are doing that then coke or drinking liquor...

[sabertooth]

only the really lazy stoners veg out on TV
I don't own a TV either,

I use it at work and it helps me tolerate being a wage slave. I let my spirit leave, while my body does all the work. Working on boom lifts playing with high voltage cables, reading wiring diagrams doesn't require to much spiritual attention so I stone my higher self and let the lower self do all the grunt work. The duality between stoned spirit and sober mind is what enamored me about pot, being altered, but able to maintain functionality, the best of both worlds.

[KD]

you guys have to be the most defensive stoners.

who cares if people have a TV or not or if they are goodhearted and productive spiritual people. The issue is the actual use is far different so you can't justify it by referencing other cultures, other than that who cares. Clearly if you admittedly use it to augment or escape from reality, you arn't eating it for its flavor or nutritional value, so just enjoy and stop trying to rationalize it from that perspective.

if the issue is whether it contains toxic or addictive compounds, the answer is, it does, particularly if you are smoking it (with heat ([duh]). Any heated matter will have an affect on the bodies internal mechanisms like detox. if people could give a shit, that is their business if the 'good' outweighs the 'bad', but it doesn't eliminate the accuracy that even small amounts are harmful from that perspective.

[Brother]

There is no such thing as gmo weed....

Not free flowing, but ofcourse, where there is monsatan http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1322.html

The wild weed in india is supposedly the most potent stuff around

Not a chance. I have no doubt that it is potent, but compared to the hybrids grown in close circuit hydroponic systems there are no natural strain that comes even close.

I think its odd that paleo geared eaters are somewhat against drug use when pretty much every single indigenous tribe practices some form of drug ingestion.

I second that

The way I see it, drugs are just a way to get rid of the pain of thought. Waste of time.

O Rly? http://www.miqel.com/entheogens/francis_crick_dna_lsd.html



 

[yuli]

you guys have to be the most defensive stoners.

its something worth defending, so why would I not, I could say you are the some of the most defensive non-stoners 
if no-one defends it and it is classified as evil we can loose the freedom of having it, we have already lost some of that freedom, would you want me to be prosecuted for it?
So I'll just defend it until you get sick of me and give up, or we could go on forever, I am cool with either way

who cares if people have a TV or not or if they are goodhearted and productive spiritual people.

ummm, you're the one that brought up people on a spiritual journey versus people who are lazy and watch TV all day, I was replying in the scope of the subject

The issue is the actual use is far different so you can't justify it by referencing other cultures

What I said was in reference to my culture - what I am living in today, because thats what relevant to me. And what is wrong with taking example of other cultures? Raw Paleo diet is based on Paleolithic man, to me thats another culture, one we have taken example of once again have we not. What else should I use to justify it other then my experience, people I know in my community, other cultures...should I use those ridiculous anti-weed commercials they show on TV, or studies done by the same people who prescribe drugs for everything, who tell us we should eat pasta and drink pasteurized milk? No thanks.

Other than that who cares. Clearly if you admittedly use it to augment or escape from reality, you arn't eating it for its flavor or nutritional value, so just enjoy and stop trying to rationalize it from that perspective.

You usually don't eat it for nutritional value, its not food, its a herb, and THC is the substance I am trying to absorb when I consume it, I am trying to get vitamins or minerals from it, proteins or carbs, clearly. Its flavor by the way, is amazing, however flavor is a personal matter. Probably the same reason deer will nibble on its buds.

if the issue is whether it contains toxic or addictive compounds, the answer is, it does, particularly if you are smoking it (with heat ([duh]). Any heated matter will have an affect on the bodies internal mechanisms like detox. if people could give a shit, that is their business if the 'good' outweighs the 'bad', but it doesn't eliminate the accuracy that even small amounts are harmful from that perspective.

I partly agree with this. First I don't find it addictive, my use has not increased over time, it has decreased actually, and I am a long time user. There is periods I will have to go on a trip, I am travelling, going on summer vacation or any situation I just don't have it for a long time, I don't feel like I am detoxing or in withdrawal. Its no more addictive then fruit, some people eat too much fruit too it can be addicting.
If you are talking from the perspective that it contains some toxic compounds (mostly when smoked) then, ok, it does. But I find having fear of some small amount toxic compound in an otherwise healthy diet is unrealistic, for some who are weak or ill then ok, but from a healthy perspective thats like being afraid to eat that fresh tomato growing in my garden because its a nightshade. It becomes similar the irrational fear of germs but from an inverse perspective, if you now what I mean.

[KD]

I never made that comparison, all I said was: Are people actually engaged in practices of indigenous people? and used the cartoon network to show the vast difference in practices, not that all stoners were a bunch of useless degenerates. Ancient peoples did not use weed to get them through the day, this should be apparent, therefore despite any rationalization, this type of use qualifies as 'abuse' in that sense.

also, if smoking didn't have any toxic effect or addictive quality, you folks wouldn't pride yourself on only using a small amount as it would not matter if it did indeed carry no repercussions. This is pretty textbook type rationalizing for all substance users. As far as drugs having positive effects that outweigh bad, I could earnestly use this excuse to rationalize lots of prescription drugs in additional to other illegal ones (which are really just better highs than pot really), or even things like pornography to suppress loneliness or spousal abuse to get rid of rage. Doesn't mean the overall outcome is good or that there are no consequences of which for (smoking) pot are well documented. The whole 'natural' angle doesn't count either if the substance is altered in any fashion, as even something as basic as oxygen can make one high or fatal given the proper concentration.

I wasn't speaking of detox from the drug, I was speaking of regularly ingesting any type of drug that you heat or is already heated or processed on a regular basis - or even minor things like teas or cooked foods or condiments throughout the day - will be more detrimental to a raw paleo eater than a regular person, even if the actual toxins form these things is negligible. I hear you on wanting to create a balance, but that doesn't mean you cloud the truth of the matter.

as for freedom fighting, I think in the rules here it requires all 'che' shirts left at the front door.

[yuli]

I never made that comparison, all I said was: Are people actually engaged in practices of indigenous people?

There are many spiritual practices engaged in today that mimic the same reasoning as for why indigenous people had practiced certain things, if you are not aware of that its ok. Not everyone is interested in just cartoons, video games and Britney Spears you know. Just because you see some lazy stoners you judge everyone who consumes it that they must be involved in lazy activities and escaping reality, lol...Who are you to judge that whatever I am practicing mentally when I am using weed is just an excuse. Anything can become an excuse by that reasoning.  
Are we engaged in practices of the Paleolithic man? Not really, unless maybe if you live as a hunter gatherer, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't run barefoot, try to eat raw etc...just because times have changed doesn't mean there is no place anymore for something that was obviously once beneficial. That would be sad...

and used the cartoon network to show the vast difference in practices

yes I know thats why you used the cartoon network, its logical you use that example to illustrate it in a negative way, yes unfortunately some people have lost their spiritual side and are rather empty, this actually happens to people that don't smoke weed or take drugs, gasp!

not that all stoners were a bunch of useless degenerates.

Were? You mean now all people who smoke weed are useless degenerates, I feel bad for you if thats the way it is where you are. Or do you use the word "stoner" to illustrate the fact someone is smoking huge amounts of weed and is lazy couch potato, then ok  

Ancient peoples did not use weed to get them through the day, this should be apparent, therefore despite any rationalization, this type of use qualifies as 'abuse' in that sense.

I do agree if someone can't get through their day without weed perhaps yes they should think about making some positive changes in their life. I for one do not need anything to get me though the day, I love my job and my life, so I use it for a totally different reason...I mentioned I have long stretches without it and one way or another I have no problems getting through a day and enjoy life with or without it.

also, if smoking didn't have any toxic effect or addictive quality, you folks wouldn't pride yourself on only using a small amount as it would not matter if it did indeed carry no repercussions.

I am sorry, I didn't mean to pride myself for using it in small amounts anymore then I "pride" myself in eating fruit or honey in small amounts...I was just stating it thats all because some people do use it in huge amounts and I find it too powerful a herb for that. Its something that requires a little fine tuning to get it right.

I could earnestly use this excuse to rationalize lots of prescription drugs in additional to other illegal ones (which are really just better highs than pot really), or even things like pornography to suppress loneliness or spousal abuse to get rid of rage.

Nah, I have met too many highly intelligent and very healthy (physically as well as mentally) people and too little people who are regularly consuming prescription drugs or "hard" drugs regularly who fit those qualities. Actually almost all the people I know that smoke weed (either often or on occasion) range from health-freak to moderately healthy and stable, and most of the people I know on prescription drugs or addicts of hard drugs do not posses those traits (regardless of whether or not they consume weed)...just like if you ate a raw paleo diet but you sat on the couch 24/7 and took heavy prescription drugs the raw paleo wouldn't do too much/as much for you then  

I wasn't speaking of detox from the drug, I was speaking of regularly ingesting any type of drug that you heat or is already heated or processed on a regular basis - or even minor things like teas or cooked foods or condiments throughout the day - will be more detrimental to a raw paleo eater than a regular person, even if the actual toxins form these things is negligible. I hear you on wanting to create a balance, but that doesn't mean you cloud the truth of the matter.

Everyone has their own balance, my balance is raw paleo but I don't claim or want to do it 100%, I just don't need to. If people want to do it 100% (useful when curing a disease I think) then kudos to them. But I don't find it detrimental to consume these negligible toxins, ESPECIALLY on raw paleo, oh well, good for me, I am still achieving balance, and if you are still going to say I am clouding the truth, I think I know my body better then you do...teas don't hurt me either, weird eh, I must be some sort of freak if am continuously eating raw paleo meals but I drink tea, smoke some weed, have a beer with friends on the weekend, and I feel heathy as I get older, wow dude! Trips you out doesn't it   ha ha

as for freedom fighting, I think in the rules here it requires all 'che' shirts left at the front door.

Freedom fighting? Oh I see, so when we list reasons for why its safe to eat raw meat for people who say "heeelp I need to justify my way of eating to .....insert name of person who is bitching at you for eating raw meat...." we are not helping them fight for their freedom? Or are you saying we are not allowed to defend anything here that is not raw paleo? Then any threads with references to weed, or tea or dairy should be deleted immediately. Or wait, you want me to read people writing about how weed is so evil and keep my mouth shut, heh heh, no way, if you guys don't like it then by all means, ask the moderator to kick me off this forum, because not being able to do that in the "Off Topic" forum is gay, I thought this is what the Off Topic forum is for...to discuss non-rawpaleo matters, discussion means seeing it from both sides

[cliff]

1.) the cultures likely also use tobacco products and or alcohol products as well as teas and other things. does not mean these things have no toxic compounds or that they arent addictive or damaging, particularly when they are removed from their medicinal or ritualistic purposes.

Having toxic compounds doesn't necessarily mean something is bad, most shaman highly revere tobacco and believe it is the most important tool they posses.  The tobacco indigenous shaman smoke is much more potent in the harmaline chemicals unlike commercial tobacco.

Likewise with alcohol, these are very important beverages to indigenous people.  They are not the same thing as Budweiser or Jack Daniels in anyway.  Daniel vitalis says when governments go in and interfere with indigenous cultures the first thing they get rid of is there "brew", health decline follows.

2.) which is how many people are participating in some kind of ritual or spiritual vision quest and how many have a bowl on their coffee table just ready for cartoon network?

This is a very good point.  It doesn't counter the many beneficial uses these substances may have tho. 

[KD]

ok yuli, clearly you have the better ability to mince word here.

The only thing I can add is I don't think you understand the meaning of defensive, because it isn't reflecting positively on your argument.

cliff:

you are right, thats why I don't believe using medicines are default bad, only that people should admit they are using drugs/medicines which are exactly the same as other drugs and medicines. there is 0 difference between someone that uses zanex for their anxiety or pot. the pot in the end is indeed more natural and probably safer, but its exactly the same thing. I would actually recommend zanex over pot in most circumstances. Thousands of NA folks can attest there is no difference between alcohol and pot addiction, this doesn't mean some folks can't limit themselves and claim health benefits from a glass of wine with dinner, and it doesn't mean people can't claim smoking pot isn't addictive and doesn't affect their long term health. However, The very reason pot is becoming acceptable AS medicine is because it works exactly the way other drugs work.

Vitalis is a good person to bring up because his perspective is entirely based on balance and tradition. RPD/Primal etc...I believe are processes that go beyond tradition into unraveling and repairing various constructs. It may be true that what he presents represents the way to be the most rounded and 'healthy', or that these beverages and medicines do complete their particular way of life, but they can definitely impact 100% raw diets (which he doesn't see as necessary or necessarily healthy anyway). So in service to this topic within this forum, even though you can't weigh the advantages of the same person smoking or not smoking, you could certainly say the person smoking would be more challenged in regards to healing and progress enough to make someone wish to shed it entirely.

[yuli]

ok yuli, clearly you have the better ability to mince word here.
The only thing I can add is I don't think you understand the meaning of defensive, because it isn't reflecting positively on your argument.

OK, if you have had enough of me then fine, I shall not taunt you with my word-mincing abilities (which I had no clue you were measuring), or god forbid, being defensive...

And if you would recommend Xanex or other pharmaceuticals over pot then....ummmm...thats a little scary I guess....

[KD]

mince words means soften, so yes, you missed the sarcasm there. your last post literally had no content in it other than taking some kind of baby like personal offensive and objection to generalizations I didn't even make. It isn't the first time that constantly bringing up in every post centered around how liberated and comfortable you are from percentages and stereotypes or some neigh invincibility to garbage and so forth doesn't exactly project that impression properly at all and does quite the opposite, just a pointer. As for the pharmaceuticals never being more appropriate than pot, you've obviously never worked with people that have had debilitating problems, so yeah all your 'umms' and so forth do not make me feel stupid. Its precisely the point that pot would be more suitable than other substance for a 'paleo' or natural lifestyle that i'm objecting to, and little else. To the body, drugs are drugs. People can comfortably practice all kinds of crap and remain healthy or gain health, doesn't mean it is ideal or is some kind of mystery drama.

[yuli]

Mincing can have other meaning, I didn't know which one you were referring to, my English is good but not my first language so I sometimes miss things like that...

I will make sure to not bring up how 'liberated' I feel next time since it angers so many here, I didn't know that...
I'll just keep my childish excitement to myself regardless how good I feel, or else an angry cavemen will come running after me.   
 
I didn't know that you striving for something ideal, whatever that may be, I was talking about it in terms of general well-being. Do we actually know what is ideal? If people can practice this "crap" and still gain health, fitness, live a long and happy life and avoid disease that can also be quite ideal, don't you think?

[Brother]

you guys have to be the most defensive stoners.

setting people straight when they spew the usual horseshit government propaganda or variations thereof, is not being defensive. I find it interresting how people are willing to wholeheartedly accept in dodgy science if it correlates with their pet oppinions.

The issue is the actual use is far different

Different from what? Hindi prophets? those guys eat and smoke so much weed i am surpriced they can sit on the ground without being tied down by ropes. Rastas? who used what how?

which is how many people are participating in some kind of ritual or spiritual vision quest and how many have a bowl on their coffee table just ready for cartoon network?

It is obvious to me that you do not understand how these things work. Again, there is the fucking puritan spirit that dictates that somehow, sitting down doing breathing exersizes and meditating is far superior to doing some drug and watching tele. O Rly?! thats just not how it works. The brains chemicals gets altered either way and the best way to ensure you get the kind of thoughts you want, is to do things that you like to do obviously. If thats tele. well.

Also, I think you may have missed my post on toxicity since you keep saying that it has toxic properties. It does not. One of the key definitions of "toxic" is that it causes injury or death. The only death related to weed that I have been able to find (that is not directly rooted in its legal status and violent criminal gangs such the the police and cripps fighting over it). was a truck driver who hit a wall and had 3 tonnes of hashish come flying from the back and it killed him. This is not toxic, i means that hash is pretty well compressed and hit as hard as a rock.

Too set off allready existing psychological problems is not technically injury, since the injury is allready present. When you smoke it, sure.. cancers and such comes to mind. But we agree that most things you burn, will turn toxic to various degrees.