Chronic Kidney disease (renal insufficiency) and protein intake

[stoneforest]

Hi guys, 

thank u all for ur help,  especially Sabertooth, Lex, Tyler, Goodsamaritan.  I am now low-carb RAF. A little green salad a few times a week. Now, given that my kidney function is a little weak (Serum Creatinine 1.2, GFR  75), I wanted to know if too much raw animal protein is too strenuous on the kidneys. I'm eating approximately  0.33 lbs of raw beef 3 times daily with about 8 egg yolks and a palm-size portion of marrow divided between the 3 meals. sometimes i'll replace the ground beef with beef liver or wild-caught salmon. The raw beef is about 25% fat. This gives me approximately 340 grams of protein daily.  i would say that my diet is approximately  55-60% fat.

Now, standard protein recommendations are that it should be restricted to no more than 1 gram per kilogram of weight. ofcourse, this is what is recommended given a  cooked SAD.  my weight is approximately 64kg. 
from ur experience or observations of other individuals am i consuming too much protein? should i increase my fat intake?
i hope to gain some weight but dont want to do it at the expense of my kidneys. i do believe the raw animal protein is much easier to assimilate and metabolize.
any advise is appreciated...

[TylerDurden]

Ultimately, we all have different conditions or the same condition caussed by entirely different individual circumstancess, we all have to experiment a lot in the end. I can only ay  that given my own experience, the above raw meat intake sounds fine, but then I never(knowingly) had kidney troubles, just a 100 other issues.

If I were in your position, I would also eat some raw fruits as well, IMO.

[goodsamaritan]

Tyler is right about the organic fruits, especially the hydrating ones.

I would advice against drinking plain water as well, with enough fruit, you don't need plain water, even so called bottled mineral water is suspect. Plain water is hard on kidneys.

You can also drink raw eggs to quench your thirst.

Tap water in the USA has fluoride in it which is deadly to kidneys, not even good for brushing your teeth.

Hopefully you are drug free.

Worst case scenario, distill your own water and squeeze a lemon in it plus add a touch of raw honey to taste.

Too much raw animal protein is tough on kidneys, you need to find your level.

[stoneforest]

are ketogenic diets (low-carb or zero-carb) dehydrating?   

[goodsamaritan]

are ketogenic diets (low-carb or zero-carb) dehydrating?  

In my opinion, only for this case of chronic kidney disease, go with hydrating fruit and raw fat.
with zero carb, you will have to drink a lot of plain water which in my opinion may be hard for your kidneys at the moment.

[Arthas_]

I'm afraid your figures are incorrect. You said you eat 0.33lbs of beef 3 times a day. That is 1lb total. As you said it's ground fatty meat (25% fat), so I assume its 75% lean meat. So let's say you eat 340g of lean meat a day. Lean meat has on average 25% as protein, so your daily intake of protein is 85g. It seems you're just a little over the standard recommendation. Also according to my calculations just your ground beef is 75% fat by calories. You also eat egg yokes and marrow, so I guess you diet is 80% fat if not higher.

[sabertooth]

I do good on low glycemic fruit, mainly just lemon water, I drink the juice of a lemon squeezed in a tall glass of water at least twice a day(I think its good for cleaning the kidneys and keeping hydrated).

There split between the vary low carb group and the more fruit tolerant bunch. Experimentation is necessary to discover which side you may fall on. I am staying on the lower carb side based on my past trouble with carbs in general, but I am healing and seem to be more tolerant of fruit now even though I have no disire to eat more of it.

I think good fat is the most essential element  when it comes to healing the kidneys and rebuilding a damaged being. Once you change over and fully adapt to burning fat as the primary fuel, healing should take place, and while your body makes the change you should be able to find the right carb ratio with trial and error.

  

[stoneforest]

Thanks guys.
I guess i wasnt so clear on the fat content in raw ground beef. i guess i am having a good amount of fat. the only non-animal source of food  i'm having is the juice of one lemon daily and a small bowl of green salad (baby greens) every other day. i am presently in ketosis and very determined to continue this diet for atleast a couple weeks.
still debating whether i should add some fruits in a few weeks or not.  something inside tells me that the ketogenic diet is more detoxifying. my question still lies in whether it is also best for rebuilding nerve tissue/liver/kidneys. perhaps it is best for me to alternate between ketogenic and low carb (moderate glycemic index fruits). insulin, whose release is elicited by carbs, may be conducive to rebuilding. i dont know. i can only follow my gut. for now it's ketogenic.

[raw-al]

I am not sure how you would know that you have kidney issue, but I have heard that bags under the eyes are a sign.

Is this true? or is it a sign of sleep deprivation. It runs in my family.

My grandfather referred to it as the "Tucker Puff" (maternal family name)

[PaleoPhil]

For someone with Stage II chronic kidney disease (glomerular filtration rate within 60 to 89 mL/min/1.73 m2) who is on a low-carb RAF diet to severely restrict their water intake to the small amount of fruit they eat seems like courting disaster. With a serious illness like CKD it would be dangerous to rely only on the amateur advice of folks in this forum--healthy skepticism seems in order.

I recommend reading the American Society of Evolutionary Medicine blog of "Dr. T"--a Nephrologist who eats a Paleo diet. He has had success in lowering some of his patients' GFR's with a combination of dietary therapy, supplements and medicine. The problem is, his forum is now accessible by invitation only. Does anyone know how to get invited? Dr. T is an assertive atheist, but if that doesn't bother you, he offers much useful health info.

[stoneforest]

many thanks to all of u,
   
 i just found out my kidney function has declined even further, which precludes me from eating such high amounts of protein. creatinine clearance is now about 60. and i have no diabetes nor any other condition other than neuropathy of unknown origin.

dont know what to eat. i'm afraid the sugar (from fruits) and protein can do me in. nothing left but fat and raw animal fat in large quantities sounds hard to swallow.

i sent an email to Dr. T in hopes of having some access to info on kidney disease. but i cant seem to find any claims on improvement in kidney function anywhere on the internet.

anyone heard any testimonials of improvement in kidney function?

thanks for ur comments

[sabertooth]

sorry that there hasn't been such good results on this diet, Maybe you were too damaged to go cold turkey into ketosis, during the adaption process there is a little extra kidney strain. Have you tried to do intermittent fasting in order to allow your blood to clean out from time to time? Not making a medical recommendation that you should fast. But just consider when the kidneys are having protein?ketone? overload I assume that a series of short fast could help.

[PaleoPhil]

I think kidney disease is one of the diseases one has to be most careful with when changing diets, which is why I recommended talking to Dr. T rather than try to give my own suggestions. I hope he can help. As I PM'ed to you, Billy, one of Dr. T's patients with kidney disease, has reported excellent success following Dr. T's advice.

[sabertooth]

PP is right you do need to seek counsel with a kidney disease expert

There is one thing you may want to concider especially with your kidney problems. CADMIUM TOXICITY
Its a know cause of kidney dissease, as well as numbers of other health issues.

I had a hair analysis done while I was real sick, and it showed I had high cadmium as well as off the charts in aluminium.

I called poison control and the guy told me that high cadmium usually is caused by smoking cigarettes or eatting large amounts of leafy green vegtables. I used to eat a lot of green vegtables and never experience any health benefits from doing so. I often wonder if my high cadmium was from diet or occupation. Its sometimes a contaminate of  fertilizers, as well as used in the matterial I work with as an electrician.

A red flag is waving in my mind when I hear someone with kidney problems who eats allot of greens.
http://www.cadmium.org/env_exp.html
Do some more research on this issue and try to Bring it up if you can find a good doctor,

I am poor and without insurance so when I went to doctors offices with my hair analysis results they treated me like a head case. If you don't have elevated lead or mercury in your blood then they don't consider it poisoning. Even a kidney specialist wont diagnose these types slow accumulated toxicity's even though issues like mild cadmium toxicity are a prevalent cause of many kidney issues (Diagnosed or not).

My problems were a combination of toxicity and nutritional imbalance, I am not saying we have the same issues, or that cadmium is the primary culprit, only I suggest that If you have kidney issues that you should at all cost avoid any additional cadmium exposure, and don't rule out cadmium poisoning even if the medical test rule it out. Most toxic metals will get stored in the tissues so that a blood test will not show any toxic levels even though the tissues are saturated with it, this is especially true with cadmium which is accumulated over time.

[PaleoPhil]

I found the source of the problem I was running into when trying to access Dr. T's blog. I was going through my blogger links, which were out of date. He has a new URL at http://evmedsociety.blogspot.com/.

He warns: "Personal advice will not be given on this site. This site is ONLY intended for educational purposes. Please consult your physician regarding any health guidelines seen in this blog." But maybe people with kidney issues will find useful info at his blog and maybe he'll direct people to more info, I don't know. Maybe BillyE, his patient with a good success story, would help too, I don't know.

[stoneforest]

Thanks Guys,   i will schedule an appt with Dr. T      cheers!

[stoneforest]

hi guys,   
i met with Dr. T.  really personable, knowledgeable guy.  with regard to kidney disease he definitely recommends gluten-free, grain-free, low carb diet. also,  optimal vitamin D levels are greater than 50. he also recommends checking omega3:6 ratio before determining adequate supplementation.

i will keep u all posted and provide any info I can that may be of benefit to anyone.