Living in the wild

[goodsamaritan]

The dog eat dog part of sexuality and sperm wars is an ever present fact of human life.  
Just watch The Maury Povich show.
There's your dog eat dog sperm wars exposed by DNA testing.

We are too far educated, knowing about paternity testing to go back in the wild.

We may be forced back in the wild by an earth tragedy, which will be a cannibal fest.  Gross.

[Iguana]

I had a look at the link you gave, GS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Wars
I read :

The book is controversial, both because of its explanations of homosexuality, rape, and prostitution, and because several of the hypotheses in the book are not supported by scientific research.

For instance, oral sex is explained as an opportunity for partners to judge each other's reproductive health, and for mates to detect recent infidelity (also proposed by Kohl & Francoeur, 1995 "The Scent of Eros").

That’s very weird and doesn’t fit with the fact that apes, some hunter-gatherers, Polynesians and Inuits (amongst others) don’t care about “infidelity”and even favor it. Note that it shouldn’t be called “infidelity”when it’s not done secretly from the usual partner, but with his/her total agreement or even presence.

Also :

However, this literal sperm warfare has not been observed in subsequent experiments, and is considered discredited.[5][6][7]

Overall, the author of this book stick to conventional  thinking since he doesn’t know (like most people and researchers) that physical love has another essential function than reproduction. It’s absolutely logical that it must have one. With a correct raw paleo nutrition, sexual drives are normalized. I’ve experienced it ever since the first days and most others I know and talked with also have. Consequently all the ambient salad about sexuality has been based on abnormal human behaviour due to perturbations caused by incorrect nutrition and it must be completely reconsidered from scratch.This work was done by GCB and is exposed in a new book, translated in English and downloadable here.

Yes, I didn’t find myself what I exposed in previous posts. Perhaps it is wrong, but at least it fits with everything we know, whit every observed fact and even with everything  that happened in my live and around me.

[goodsamaritan]

Thanks for the book.
Much appreciated!

[KD]

EDIT : The problem with you, KD, is that you write faster than normal people can read. I strongly suspect that you belong to the rare polykeyboarder type (found amongst very few homo sapiens and bonobos) and that you type not only with 10 fingers, but with 20 - hands and feet.  
   

thanks

Sully: just for the record, that began with me but a quick back-read would show that was not my point at all. I was trying to keep the subject on topic by saying what a person today would have to deal with - making all this other stuff total superfluous as they probably couldn't even support a single other person in todays wild if they couldn't take care of themselves. Likely they would have to have a mate that was independent and capable of tasks and roles possibly even traditional peoples did not but wasn't likewise thinking entirely opportunistically to move on to something else. Even if in that past there might have been various divisions of labor to a certain degree, but all the males (and likely the females) would have to have more than basic levels of fitness and strength. In fact its been presented here by TD that paleo women were stronger then some contemporary strength trainers.  If people can't carry a 50 lb box of crap up a 5th floor walk-up without panting, odds are they couldn't maintain a wife in a truly dog eat dog world of equals without lock-and-key type distribution of resources and social hierarchies. This is why I said its easy-peasy behind the keyboard theorizing. Its one thing to have extreme opinions, but you have to follow through with the actual results and ramifications of what one says don't you think? It certainly bothers me that people can just glaze over all the points others bring up and spew the same bullshit over and over.

I certainly concede that what Ingunna presents is possible but there essentially is not enough evidence for it and plenty of evidence to the contrary. People act like we are completely enslaved by societal conventions far too often on forums like this, the fact is some people have all the options in the world for -if not officially by law- poly type relationships to their hearts content, and still choose monogamy. I suspect heavily that the same individuals sucked dry of all modern toxins and programming would not necessarily act differently. Despite how some animals act in nature, monogamy (at least serially) is quite present so it can't be an 'invention' of cooked foods. Only as I tried to point out, the very mechanisms that create wealth and removal from the circumstances of the wild, seem to create spiraling systems that then in themselves are not always fair, but that doesn't mean there is no instinct to be with a single person.

as for SW, I'm glad someone else pointed out how basically its just someones crack-pot ideas that have nothing to do with actual information researched on primitive or modern cultures not to mention does not technically promote polymory specifically or cite homosexuality as a invention of modern toxins or any other nonsense in which its been referenced on this site.

I don't believe we have much of anything in common with bonobos, and do see most 'great apes' as a degeneration of human form (which is inherently complex) rather than a model of simplicity, so perhaps that does have something to do with it.

[TylerDurden]

I didn't suggest that palaeo women were more powerful than modern male strength-trainers.

As for bonobos, I recall reading somewhere that bonobos are further away from us, evolutionarily-speaking than standard chimpanzees.  It is difficult, though, to call humans monogamous as paternity fraud, for example,  appears to be much larger than one thinks, according to some studies.

[KD]

I feel pretty confident with my recollection that you posted an article commenting on the size of women's arms and strength in comparison to a modern person, can't find it however.

either way, other than the chance that I remembered falsely, you are skipping over the bulk here, not to mention your other posts do mention the superiority of fitness amongst average people in the paleolithic to even modern advanced athletes, which is basically all that matters per my point.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/infonews-items/more-evidence-that-palaeo-tribespeople-were-strongerfitter-than-us/

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/off-topic/modern-men-are-wimps!/

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/how-big/

of course we all know that all people do not have success with monogamy or its necessarily a default and everything else is deranged. The point is monogamy is not purely a construct of civilization covering up our innate desires and that love goes beyond biological functioning and often behaves dysfunctionally. Even if it was a construct, we don't necessarily live under conditions where people can be responsible enough to welcome all our innate desires. I won't slander anyone by bringing up examples of those again, but picking and choosing elements [edit - amongst the paleolithic or traditional] to ones convenience is not appropriate like it can be with diet preference - which has no victim of other people.

[KD]

Any Neanderthal woman could have beaten former bodybuilder and current California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in an arm wrestle.

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/2009/10/14/2009-10-14_modern_man_a_wimp_says_anthropologist_peter_mcallister_in_manthropology_.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/14/modern-man-is-a-wimp-acco_n_321117.html

ok it was the modern men are wimps thing.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/off-topic/modern-men-are-wimps!/

[TylerDurden]

As I recall, I simply stated that Cro-Magnon humans were as good as or better than modern Olympic athletes. At the time, I naturally was comparing palaeo men to modern men and palaeo women to modern women. The exception re Neanderthal women was based on a scientific study and obviously Neanderthals were far stronger than Homo Sapiens(Cro-Magnon) given past data re bones, being different species albeit able to interbreed etc.

[Cinna]

on a biological level, of course the advantage of having variety of mates is obvious to just about anyone (that is male!), but I can say for certain that as someone fully capable of attracting a variety of females in a modern or probably traditional setting - not to mention per topic a larger probability of survival, I would trade constant shuffling between partners for a true committed love. This is the love that makes us human and not an amoeba. Just about the majority of all humans believe this way, which is why despite the obvious problems, all the otherwise deemed 'alphas' seem to be drawn into at least a series of monogamous relationships, even when they have all the looks and resources to have basically whatever they please in our modern world 24/7.

Let's get married, Knievel. Are you free this Thursday? Wait, not this Thursday, but next Thursday - a week from this Thursday.

We could have bridal registries at Slankers, Northstar Bison, and WF. Daniel Vitalis and Mark Sisson could do the catering... We could have one conventional wedding cake and another hardcore RPD wedding cake (idk, does a pemmican layer cake with marrow/suet/pet food "fondant" sound good? maybe some organ "ganache" in the center?). [If you prefer not to get "married," at least consider having the ceremony/reception - we won't really sign the marriage contract. We'll just have the "party" (reception) for the sake/show of having a party and to get all the wedding gifts (we'll split these). Shhhh... it will be our secret! ] Lmk.

[KD]

Let's get married

where is my necklace made out of crustaceans? Where is my blow to the head with a blunt object? This is soooo non rpd. Where is my courtship? I need to be wooed. I want to swoon in anticipation. ah well.

yes of course!

I think making the cake would e the best part, we could do it together. I guarantee if its a triple layer it will make the 6 o'clock news. Have you seen the Meatza on Dirty Carnivore site?... yuck. Ours will be artistry-come-delicious. Some kind of structure made out of pemmican and suet topped with blood and strawberry sauce. It might even food combine ok. It would be good because and vegans would say what would a RAF wedding cake look like, made all out of meat? and we'd just say yes. Strawberry or vanilla? We'd have to invite all the major prominent figures of the forums and blogosphere and they'd all argue about which diet is best and then pretend to hope the bouquet does not land on them next. I promises for one day I won't chase off any potheads, all are welcome and we'll have an almond flour cake for the less adventurous. It just won't have any little people on it.

[Sully]

where is my necklace made out of crustaceans?

I got some claws from the cooked crab brohem!

[Cinna]

where is my necklace made out of crustaceans? Where is my blow to the head with a blunt object? This is soooo non rpd. Where is my courtship? I need to be wooed. I want to swoon in anticipation. ah well.

Wait, where is MY necklace? Oh, the blow to your head with a blunt object - that's coming later... And our entire marriage will be a courtship, so don't worry about that.

yes of course!

Excellent! (I hope you cried... b/c if you didn't cry, people might not believe that you really want to go through with this.)

I think making the cake would e the best part, we could do it together. I guarantee if its a triple layer it will make the 6 o'clock news. Have you seen the Meatza on Dirty Carnivore site?... yuck. Ours will be artistry-come-delicious. Some kind of structure made out of pemmican and suet topped with blood and strawberry sauce. It might even food combine ok. It would be good because and vegans would say what would a RAF wedding cake look like, made all out of meat? and we'd just say yes. Strawberry or vanilla? We'd have to invite all the major prominent figures of the forums and blogosphere and they'd all argue about which diet is best and then pretend to hope the bouquet does not land on them next. I promises for one day I won't chase off any potheads, all are welcome and we'll have an almond flour cake for the less adventurous. It just won't have any little people on it.

That's a great idea - to make the cake together. That would make it more meaningful. I had seen the meatza on Dirty Carnivore! (Lol, at least it inspired me to get creative topping ground meat. I LOVE pizza. I'm going to try pineapple, pepperoni, and mozzarella on raw ground beef soon.) Sweet - I'm glad we're on the same page regarding "artistry-come-delicious." The blood and strawberry sauce made my mouth water. (There's a sentence I never thought I would write.) I love almond cake too! If we invite major prominent figures, it's gonna be a circus.   I know you are fond of squabbling, but I don't know if that would be auspicious on our wedding day.

I would also like to be registered at Amazon.com, Apple, iTunes, Agent Provocateur, and Sur La Table (I can get us some Lodge cast iron and the expensive enameled cast iron, Le Creuset, for cooked paleo jags). Btw, I've always loved the combination of hot pink and black... but I'm really open/flexible to your ideas of wedding colors (or themes, et al.), as well. I'm not a control freak... Oh, I also want a cover band that plays hits from the 70s, 80s and beyond (Top 40 dance especially). I'm not sure what I want to wear - I keep going back and forth between a 70s disco gown, cave couture a la Raquel Welch in One Million Years B.C. or Linda Harrison in Planet of the Apes, or a $10,000 gown a la "Say Yes to the Dress"... What do you want to wear? You can help me decide by telling me what you want to wear (if anything). I'm going to ask Ioanna to be a bridesmaid.

I don't mean to take this thread further off topic, so anymore planning ideas, I'll do in your journal.

[laterade]

Any one who would like to form a survival group in the four corners should let me know...  (I live on Arizona)
After winter I should be ready to take off a week or two and see how things go

[miles]

I'm interested. Where are you going?

[laterade]

I'm interested. Where are you going?

I'm not really sure yet, I was thinking Kaibab but Az kind of sucks when it comes to pirates("public" officials). I would like to avoid legalese as much as possible. I would rather travel to a place that has an overpopulation of game, since I have no plan on applying for a license or tag.
I have only started contemplating...Where might you suggest?

[yuli]

Looks like this summer I won't be completely living in the wild but pretty much.
My friends staying at a farm in Quebec in a VERY beautiful place...surrounded by wild....I am going to try and spend at least two months there but I want three months maybe....
The farm is small and has chickens (which are just running around in the yard outside eating plants and bugs) and grows herbs, veggies and some fruit. But its in the beautiful sand dunes area, behind it is a huge sand dune "cliff" you can slide down right to the salty water beach full of mussels.
There are many fresh water lakes where theres plenty of things to fish.
Killing rabbits there is allowed without a hunters license.
So my diet there will be mostly fresh caught fish, seafood, herbs and seasonal veggies, with maybe rabbit or fresh goat or beef if I decide to buy something from the neighboring farms. Oh, and the rocks and cliffs along the beach naturally gather delicious sea salt I can enjoy with my fish and veggies.
Swimming, exploring, fishing, eating the freshest food, probably helping with stuff on the farm (I'll have to or I am an asshole lol)...its going to be a nice summer... something to look forward to! And its CHEAP to do!

[laterade]

Yuli is very fortunate. I have been looking for an apprenticeship or job on a four legged animal farm or maybe beekeeper for the past month. Still no luck although there are many more places for me to bug. Everyone wants farm experience, which I understand, but four years of herding children does not seem to interest them. Moving into the woods starts to look better and better  LOL

[yuli]

Sometimes if you spend summer camping close to some local-yocals and befriend them you will find opportunities. It all depends on the people I guess. Go to stay at some nice wild area but where there is a little town nearby, you'll find something eventually.

[yon yonson]

I have been looking for an apprenticeship or job on a four legged animal farm or maybe beekeeper for the past month. Still no luck although there are many more places for me to bug. Everyone wants farm experience, which I understand, but four years of herding children does not seem to interest them. Moving into the woods starts to look better and better  LOL

try WWOOFing. it's really easy to get in touch with farmers who need help. i've done it a few times now and it's been great. planning on doing it many more times (probably with sully)

[Sully]

try WWOOFing. it's really easy to get in touch with farmers who need help. i've done it a few times now and it's been great. planning on doing it many more times (probably with sully)

Where gonna get all the grass fed lamb we want!

Edit: And perhaps some wild turkeys.

I mean sheep. Or is it lamb yon?

[yon yonson]

ha, i believe they're one in the same. lamb is just young sheep i think. but beef too! and of course we're gonna forage for grubs and stuff

[Sully]

ha, i believe they're one in the same. lamb is just young sheep i think. but beef too! and of course we're gonna forage for grubs and stuff

Yeah, lamb is young sheep, I was wondering if they slaughter most of them a year or under. Which would make it lamb.

It's going to be great.

[laterade]

Sometimes if you spend summer camping close to some local-yocals and befriend them you will find opportunities.

I wonder If they will mind, finding me camping on their lawn one summer morning(manifest destiny).... LOL I guess i should just find out

try WWOOFing. it's really easy to get in touch with farmers who need help. i've done it a few times now and it's been great. planning on doing it many more times (probably with sully)

Excellent... thanks for sharing!

[sydan66]

I have been planning on leaving into the wilderness for several years now and I'm finally ready…Careful practice and planning has made it possible..Going to British Columbia, Canada..well its 100 miles east of Juneau Alaska just north of telegraph creek, a small town…the Taku river…its a salt water river that comes in off the ocean. just north of there is a fresh water river called Teslin river…it is between there where we plan on going. I did weather geographics on that area and it has the warmest summers in Canada as well as not so bad winters…hasnt gone below -7 in 30 years…average temp there is around 2-38 degrees in winter non factoring the wind chill and 55-70 in summer..trust me Id like to live in a warm climate but unfortunately you need ice and freezing temps to preserve food, hides, water, etc. Shelter with inside heating as well as stocked food and warm clothing will get us through winters no problem. There is also hot springs up there which i was able to get a satellite location on 2 right near where we plan on going…The spot is perfect 40-50 miles from 2 diff towns as well as less than 100 miles from the ocean and Juneau Alaska..salt water is needed for salt as well as a great food source so its a great location. We plan on leaving March 1st 2011…the plan is to meet in Seattle, Washington on March 1st. I spent 2 years in the army and several years studying herbalisms, medicines, curing hides and lots of other survival tactics. We are gonna pan for gold, hunt, etc. Ive been planning this for years just couldnt do it alone and Ive finally found some people to go. So its time to go…So far i have 3 other serious people 3 guys 1 girl total so far and 3 others interested for a total of 6 or 7…If your interested in going with us please email me at sydan66@gmail.com and i will email you where and what time we all will be meeting.Leaving March 1st 2011 Hope to talk to you soon.

Thanks,

Dan

[laterade]

...3 guys 1 girl....

Uh oh...