New Puppy Died of Hookworm Infestation How About Humans?

[goodsamaritan]

My new puppy died of hookworm infestation.
I got him Nov 16 at 1:30pm, fed him horse heart and fat
A few minutes later pooped loose liquid stool and I counted three the rest of the day.
Vet says that was a signal that there was something wrong with the dog.
Later on and the next day he wouldn't eat.
I tried giving him raw beef, raw egg, nothing.
I resorted to giving him some beef muscle blood in his water for some nutrition.
So on the 18th in the morning I took him to the Vet.
He was put on IV.
Vet called this morning saying the dog died.
Lots of large hookworms and lots more eggs.

Of course it's unlikely the horse heart caused that in an instant.
But that's not the point of discussion I'd like to get into.

Seems parasite infestation is common in pet dogs.
And quite a lot of dogs die from parasite infestation.
And hey, this dog was allegedly given his dewormer and fed "beef pro".

How about us humans? 
Were it not for our new technology, and shared knowledge, we'd succumb a lot to parasites?
In the family, my wife and my sister and law have had bouts of amoeba, but barefoot dewormer always seems to quell them.
We have zappers and beam ray.
We have dewormers on livestock.
We have freezing technology.
We have cooking for those majority who cook their food.

But what about us raw paleo people?
Of course I can't accept the Aajonus spiel that all parasites are garbage men, look what happened to my dog, the parasites killed him.
So what of us raw paleo people?

(I've got herbal dewormers, zappers, beam ray service, and at the far end... drugs)

[Iguana]

That dog was fed cooked junk before you got him, wasn't he?

[goodsamaritan]

That dog was fed cooked junk before you got him, wasn't he?

Yes, the seller said Beef Pro.

[TylerDurden]

 I simply don't buy into the whole parasite scare. My own experience showed that even eating lots of raw wild game for almost a decade was no problem. My 1 sole experience with tapeworms was of a very minor nature, and did me no lasting harm. I suspect that other issues were present. For example, many breeds of dogs are even more inbred than usual, so that no diet, however raw, could prevent certain serious issues emerging.

[goodsamaritan]

Tyler, you as an intelligent human had the resources and the judgment to use DRUGS for your parasite incident.

[TylerDurden]

Tyler, you as an intelligent human had the resources and the judgment to use DRUGS for your parasite incident.

The only reason I used those drugs was because of the unaesthetic nature of tapeworm segments appearing at odd times out my nether regions - they did not affect my health in the long-term at all. If not for that aesthetic issue, I would have been happy to do what chimps and gorillas do in the wild, which is to happily tolerate their parasites as cleansing agents but to eat various antiparasitical herbs whenever they feel that the parasite-load is too high at any stage.

[goodsamaritan]

I'm not happily harboring these suspected amoeba I may have right now.
(my wife and sis in law were really beaten down by amoeba when they had it, and they are cooked eaters)
I feel fine, but it is irritating.  So it's beam ray time.
And for those who just tuned in, I seem to have gotten this amoeba from a PTA meeting when I ate their cooked food.

[Iguana]

I said previously that I never had any parasitosis in soon 24 years of eating 100% raw including a lot of raw meat and fish. A few others got tapeworm, usually from not totally grass fed beef. A guy I know got anisakiasis from fish, which is more troublesome, but he eats also cooked food.  

If we are careful not to eat meat from animals having access to inappropriate stuff, if we balance our nutrition properly and never eat anything cooked, the chances to get troubles from a parasite are very remote.  

[yuli]

If cooked food gave you parasites I'd be dead a long time ago, especially when I am eating raw meat at the same time

That dog was fed cooked junk before you got him, wasn't he?

That is NOT why the puppy diet of hookworm!!! I have seen countless puppies raised into healthy dogs (not talking of diseased as they get older) on this "cooked junk" - about every dog here where I live, why are they not getting parasite infections or weak or sick? They eat cooked junk then some rotting shit from the ground and they are fine.

The puppy OBVIOUSLY had parasites before, was NOT dewormed, the puppies mother was NOT dewormed, and when the dog was brought to a new place the stress of everything let his already big worm problem go out of hand.

And hey, this dog was allegedly given his dewormer and fed "beef pro".

Allegedly?
ANY sane/honest breeder will give you the PAPERWORK of what the dog was given.
Without this paperwork we can safely assume that this puppy had no deworming and was probably born from a wormy mother dog in bad conditions and not properly taken care of. Thats why it died, because it was already dying/unhealthy when you got it.
The girl already lied to you about the breed of the dog do you really think she took care of it, she just wanted the money.

Blaming the fact that he ate some dog kibble on this is just insane. No matter how bad it is to feed your dog kibbles. It just as insane as saying that bit of raw horse gave him such a big problem of worms in that time.

[goodsamaritan]

If junk fed dogs need to be dewormed and backed by paperwork,

then humans fed on junk (cooked) need to be dewormed as well.

Us being on raw paleo become stronger and are able to resist the worm load, are able to detoxify our poop efficiently so the parasite load is low and manageable... sometimes symbiotic.

Does this make sense?

[miles]

eat various antiparasitical herbs whenever they feel that the parasite-load is too high at any stage.

Do you think this is important?

[KD]

 the very existance of both medical, tincture, and herbal treatments for parasites in our largely cooked food world leads me believe that cooking is not a cure all against destroying all harmful parasites. Similarly in nature the ever presence of parasites in animals is enough to accept that some level of parasite 'infestation' is quite normal. While it is true that even on 100% natural diet form birth, animals will succumb to overload of parasites and death, its should be possible to maintain certain habits that keep these things in balance. I guess in some cases as in nature, some kind of herb or protocol is needed in addition to just diet.

 I think the issue being brought up with cooked foods - ironically I think is also in origin with Aajonus - is that eating cooked food moves slowly through the system and can decay, providing food for parasites to thrive when they would likley wither and die in a clean burning system. The thing with this however is it doesnt jut apply to cooked food or even limited to raw fresh meat eating. Plenty of raw vegans can get issues with parasites as many of these things are all around us, and the 100% raw fruits and veg etc...can equally provide food for these guests (similar to cooked food) without adequatly nourising the body.

 Since the precatutions to remove all contact from parasites being fairly impossible (don't kiss any babies), and possibly be even too sterile for ones system, I choose the nourishing option. The idea that all parasites will die off on their own once they fullfill their garbage collecting function I remain skeptcal of.


So the actual cooked food could but likely does not contain the poor matter/parasite, but I guess not cooking any food could be seen as a deterant in other ways.

[yuli]

If junk fed dogs need to be dewormed and backed by paperwork....

They don't need to be dewormed and backed by paperwork to be healthy, they just need to have a healthy mother and be raised in healthy conditions. If you don't want to de-worm them ok but then make sure you control any infestation that may arise even on a raw diet. A badly bred dog from unhealthy parents will still be unhealthy on a raw diet.

The reason why the breeder MUST give you paperwork is because then the breeder is SURE of their dogs health and genetics, they are not trying to hide the fact that they don't take care of their dogs especially the mother dog, or breed dogs that should not be bred.

Buy a puppy with paperwork and health guarantee from a proven breeder, and I guarantee you, even if it was fed kibble up until you got it and after it will still be healthy, yes even on cooked junk, like most puppies are when they come from breeders who know their shit.

If you get a healthy dog and you switch it to raw then it will be EVEN healthier    But it would not get worms from eating some kibble....

Thats all what I meant to say.

[miles]

You can even get hookworms through un-damaged flesh, e.g. your feet, apparently.

[TylerDurden]

Do you think this is important?

It is known that chimps and gorillas use those herbs whenever they feel sickly. So it makes sense.

[laterade]

How can you be sure that is the parasites that killed it?
Just because you find them there doesn't necessarily make them the cause of death. That is simply the doctors opinion based on his frame of reference. Once they find parasites they are bound to stop looking and declare cause.

[goodsamaritan]

I'm no VET so I'm just relaying what the VET said.

[yuli]

How can you be sure that is the parasites that killed it?
Just because you find them there doesn't necessarily make them the cause of death. That is simply the doctors opinion based on his frame of reference. Once they find parasites they are bound to stop looking and declare cause.

Hookworm in young puppies is deadly:

"The hookworms appear quite frequent in dogs’ diseases. In the majority of cases, the puppies are the ones that get infected. The hookworms are some small internal parasites which are able to cause death, especially in the puppies."

"Newborn puppies infected with hookworms usually present with acute disease. They often are healthy in the first week of life, but then deteriorate rapidly in their second week, with severe anemia from blood loss, soft tarry and bloody stools, diarrhea, weakness, pale mucous membranes and possibly even sudden death. "

The puppy had all the symptoms of infestation...

The puppies can get hookworm from the mother before they are born and from mothers milk.
Although an adult dog can deal with hookworm young pups can't deal as well, that is why its important to de-worm the mother.

Sure something else could have killed the puppy, but I bet it was the weakness and sickness brought on by hookworm, as puppies are known to be the ones to die from it. Perhaps if the puppy was treated from birth it could have survived.

That the girl didn't even check her dogs at the vet before selling them, she was the initial reason why the puppy died I guess.

[Hannibal]

Seems parasite infestation is common in pet dogs.
And quite a lot of dogs die from parasite infestation.

The reason is simple - these dogs have got weak organisms.  
The stronger ones survive, the weaker ones die - that's a law of Nature.
Do you imagine the situation when so many weak animals would survive? They must die!
Otherwise the whole ecosystem would be a total disaster.

[Josh]

Or it could just be bad luck. The paleo people had a high level of infant mortality, but if you survived to adulthood, normal life expectancy.

Something to think about.

[TylerDurden]

Admittedly anecdotal, but a member of another forum mentioned how he noticed that the wild animals he saw killed routinely were often filled with large numbers of parasites  but were right healthy up until the point they were shot.

[sabertooth]

I had a pup die because of worms, It was a doberman Pyrenees mix we named Zeus,It was only 8 weeks old. The mother had been habitually dewormed with chemical treatments, and was dosed in early pregnancy as well as fed dry kibble, the pups were placed in a pin were they lived in their own filth . There are so many factors that contributed to the infestation but I blame the systematic use of dewormers which is know to be harmful to fetuses and when used often enough can be damaging. I got the dog home and within a day I noticed worms in the stool , and then it started to cough them out, by that time it was to late and the dog died. I wasn't worried at first because my other dog a great Pyrenees named aslan we picked up off a goat farm and its mother had never been dewormed and was feed kibble but also goat scraps, the pup had the same worms in its stool , but after a few weeks they seemed to disappear and he grew into a healthy beast on a diet deer scraps and kibble. So I think terrain has everything to do with whether you become infested or not. A dog born on a farm and never dosed with the wormer shouldn't have to worry about dieing of worms if its well nourished and nursed for long enough then the immune system should purge troublesome worms.

I am not concerned with hook worms or tape worms because from what I have learned about them is that they only seem to infest people with poor diets and preexisting immune issues, I do often wonder about  trichinosis, which is fairly common even in cooked neat eaters, Its said that 7 persent of autopsies in the southeastern US find trichinosis, and that 20% of the population is infected with it at some point in their life, so its prevalent even in cooked meat eaters, and as one ages and the immune system weakens they can get out of control and cause premature aging and early death. I knew an Indian healer woman who's father had died of Trichinosis, She was the one who said I was infested with parasites, Which I was. I had blood parasites, fungal infection, and lord knows what else, but trichinosis is a candidate,its only diagnosed in the acute cases and moist people with it are asymptomatic. All that doesn't bother me now that I feel well I don't mind the company, ,except for the trichinosis which I know I must have some of the little buggers hidding out in my tissue just waiting for me to get old and weak to emerge and wreak havoc. I think that paleo people had trichinosis as well but the purity of the diet and the strength of the immune system could keep it in check

[Hannibal]

I am not concerned with hook worms or tape worms because from what I have learned about them is that they only seem to infest people with poor diets 

That's not true.
TD has had tapeworm recently.
But he recovered quite fast and that's what is important.
Everyone of us could have parasites - that's obvious for me.

[TylerDurden]

Just to recap, I had a couple of days of issues with the tapeworms somehow managing to hurt my bladder, so it hurt to urinate. That stopped completely after 2, maybe 3 days and I experienced no issues at all after that. I did have the rather unaesthetic aspect of tapeworm segments coming out the other end afterwards, but that had no effect on my health as such. Apparently, according to online reports, tapeworms are usually harmless in almost all cases. I might be worried if I was on a SAD diet and eating a little raw meats, especially if old-aged,  but otherwise I am not bothered re parasite scares.

[sabertooth]

That's not true.
TD has had tapeworm recently.
But he recovered quite fast and that's what is important.
Everyone of us could have parasites - that's obvious for me.

I am sorry for not making a clear distinction between the word infested from infected Anyone could pick up a worm under the right circumstances, but usually only the people who are already in some way unhealthy are likely to become    infested, which means a pathogenic infection that cannot be contained by the bodies defences. 20 percent of the population is proved to have had at least a small number of trichinosis, but only people who are already in some way enfeeble(either by age or nutrition ever become so infested they die. Although I suspect that such parasites could cause mild symptoms that mimic conditions like fibromyalga and chronic pains that have no explanation.