Author Topic: Helminthic worm therapy  (Read 15211 times)

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Offline Josh

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Helminthic worm therapy
« on: December 18, 2010, 08:06:47 pm »
Has anyone here tried Helminithic therapy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy

i.e. deliberate 'infection' with hookworms or whipworms, to cause and regulate immune response.

Just curious about it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 08:33:32 pm by Josh »

Offline Caveman

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 10:22:01 pm »
Now this is interesting!

More and more have I learned to embrace nature and of all of its tiny inhabitants which can and do help us survive.

I hope we get a good discussion going on this. Probiotics never seemed to do a thing for me, and I took very large amounts from many different sources, but it seems there must really be something to this parasite "Therapy". I honestly doubt it's possible to be rid of all parasites. Unless you know you are dying of a certain parasite, cleansing is out of the question for me.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 10:22:47 pm »
    I know a couple of people who ate raw unwashed intestine just for these purposes.  I've eaten truly raw tripe (no bleach).  I think it smelled like intestine and looked like it had feces on it.  It probably didn't have any worms or worm-eggs.  I tried to clean it in the kitchen, but that would be done better in a yard with a power hose, then hung to drip dry well.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 10:28:34 pm »
Probiotics never seemed to do a thing for me, and I took very large amounts from many different sources, but it seems there must really be something to this parasite "Therapy".

    Anyone find it so hard after lifelong vegetarianism or the like to get the intestines functioning well eating raw (or cooked) meat, and have to do helminthic therapy and or highmeat to fix that?  Please post here, or if you're too shy to do that, then please private message me.  Thanks.  I'm thinking of trying it at home.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 10:39:08 pm »
What would the paleo people do if they get parasite? just die or suffer?
how their bodies go rid of parasites? AV says its myth but people still get parasites?
Is it because the handling of meat ? how they cut it (careful with intestine because of bacteria)?
meat by itself cant contain parasites right its all about the butchers right?
I need this info thanks

Offline RawZi

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 10:44:37 pm »
AV says its myth but people still get parasites?
Is it because the handling of meat ? how they cut it (careful with intestine because of bacteria)?
meat by itself cant contain parasites right its all about the butchers right?

    I think dangers of parasites are mainly from factory farmers.  A pastured raw meat eater  who doesn't eat grain or too much fiber or dumb sugars should not have a problem from the parasites, only a great detox maybe.  Of course if you're extremely old or extremely young or very feeble, I would recommend to be more careful than what I would eat.  I do pastured raw highmeats (white red and ocean) etc, not worrying now.  
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline miles

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 10:52:56 pm »
What would the paleo people do if they get parasite? just die or suffer?
how their bodies go rid of parasites? AV says its myth but people still get parasites?
Is it because the handling of meat ? how they cut it (careful with intestine because of bacteria)?
meat by itself cant contain parasites right its all about the butchers right?
I need this info thanks

Many people and animals have parasites, on any diet.

Meat can contain parasites or their eggs.
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Offline achillezzz

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 11:11:50 pm »
If I ate meat with parasites and/or their eggs what I do then??
and how often people get this parasites I don't wana get them grrrr
how to minimize the chance to 0 of any dangers from raw meat?? or atleast to the lowest point im so angry on this parasites..
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 11:42:06 pm by achillezzz »

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 12:15:26 am »
how to minimize the chance to 0 of any dangers from raw meat??
Don't combine raw meat with the plants, don't drink water during and after the meal.
Meat only with fat.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 03:39:59 am »
Don't combine raw meat with the plants, don't drink water during and after the meal.
Meat only with fat.


Why no water is it because of the Hydrochloric acid that can kill parastites for me if they are there???
Hanibal what do you think about chewing meat untill its liquid so parasites dont have places to hide theory
And why meat with fat????

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 03:57:08 am »
Why no water is it because of the Hydrochloric acid that can kill parastites for me if they are there???
Yeah, strong HCL kills a lot of parasites.
Quote
Hanibal what do you think about chewing meat untill its liquid so parasites dont have places to hide theory
I don't know.
I chew it as much as I like.
Quote
And why meat with fat????
It could be lean meat without the fat, if you like.
But if you look at the composition of an animal you'll see that eating meat and fat is the most natural option.
Have you seen my wild boar cuts or mutton ones? Meat and fat are combined with each other so eating them separately in separate meals would be quite rediculous. ;)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline Stancel

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 06:56:19 am »
What would the paleo people do if they get parasite? just die or suffer?
how their bodies go rid of parasites? AV says its myth but people still get parasites?
Is it because the handling of meat ? how they cut it (careful with intestine because of bacteria)?
meat by itself cant contain parasites right its all about the butchers right?
I need this info thanks

I was a vegan when I found out I had hookworms. The most common cause of this parasite is actually walking barefoot on soil. The larvae enter the skin and make their way to the intestines.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2010, 10:11:40 am »
I have done my fare share of raving against probiotic supplaments and their ineffectiveness. Its all baloney, scientist have found that healthy guts are infested with strains of bacteria and have cherry picked only a few of the countless liveforms that inhabit the gut and have labled it pro biotics and have sold it as some wonder supplament, while ignoring all the other factors involved in symbiotic relationships which are really what is responsible for healthy gut ecology. People who live on paleo foods are not going to need a gut loaded with acidophiles bacteria, that primarily feed off of vegtable matter and dairy. High meat is the ultimate digestive tonic and should provide all the beneficial bacteria paleo people require

I think that trichinosis and blood parasites are much more prevalent and harmfull than medical science has acknowledged.

There were major genetic changes that focused on the immune system during the rise of paleolithic man.
We humans have a longer gut that is less acidic than other predator animals which makes us more vulnerable to worms in general, so evolution  gave our guts an extremely powerful immune system to provide protection against carrion worm and other parasitic infections, as humans began to become more carnivorous. The problem is that now we live removed from those primal conditions so that now young children are not exposed early to worms and other symbiant organisms and therefore are not able able to develop the iron guts as our paleo children did, and even if modern kids are breastfed there is little chance that the milk is loaded with antibodies against such parasites, because of the sterility of modern life.

This powerful immune system developed by our carnivorous ancestors is being abused and misused by the neolithic diet, along with the sterilize the world mentality of our time. This notion is in tune with what worm therapy is dissigned to do, which is to stimulate the immune system of the gut in  order to purge it of other more harmful organisms,  it may even help heal the damage done by eatting the wrong foods, by letting the immune cells exercise their fury upon true invaders instead of exhausting itself with autoimmune reactions to the wrong foods.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 10:17:55 am by sabertooth »
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 03:48:01 am »
I seem to recall Aajonus talking about trichinosis (sp) being studied in a couple of major east coast US universities in research for I believe cancer.

I can't comment on the historical references but ST your reference to stimulating the immune response does make sense. I believe that a number of writers including AV suggest that certain harmful organisms multiply when the body has an excess of toxins that it is unable to use. They serve as garbage trucks and or break down the toxins into something that allows the body to rid itself of them.
Cheers
Al

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 03:55:28 am »
I seem to recall Aajonus talking about trichinosis
I recall Aajonus talking about trichinosis as the best detoxification on Earth; which a heckuva bullocks of course :D
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline yuli

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 04:12:56 am »
I recall Aajonus talking about trichinosis as the best detoxification on Earth; which a heckuva bullocks of course :D

No there is an even better one, just kill every living human. Best detoxification for Earth LOL

Offline raw-al

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2010, 04:15:22 am »
I recall Aajonus talking about trichinosis as the best detoxification on Earth; which a heckuva bullocks of course :D
Why?

Cheers
Al

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2010, 08:00:49 am »
It is estimated that 10% to 20% of the adult population of the United States suffers from trichinosis at some time. In many people with the disease exhibits no symptoms and is discovered only at autopsy. In others it causes diarrhea and other gastrointestinal symptoms as the worms multiply in the digestive tract. When the larvae circulate through the bloodstream, the patient experiences edema, irregular fever, profuse sweating, muscle soreness and pain, and prostration. There may be involvement of the central nervous system, heart, and lungs; death occurs in about 5% of clinical cases. Once the larvae have embedded themselves in the muscle tissue, the cysts usually become calcified; however, the infestation usually causes no further symptoms except fatigue and vague muscular pains. There is no specific treatment.

I have also read that at least 7% of autopsies in my part of the world discover trichinosis, so I think its a prevalent issue that is ignored. The  majority of people afflicted only have mild symptoms and if your immune system is healthy then perhaps a small load could help stimulate a cleansing immune responce, sadly many people are not so resilient and as they reach elder years they are less able to contain the infection and I believe that a good number of elderly people suffer from the debilitating symptoms of trichinosis, and are just written off as having nerve issues of age induced senility. Its just a hunch, I could be mistaken and those 10 to 20 percent of us who have contracted it are entirely unharmed by it and the symptoms of initial infection are so mild they are mistaken for food poisoning or some cold, its worth debating, although in the end there is nothing you can do about it , besides attempting to avoid highly contaminated meats and keeping yourself healthy.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2010, 08:16:23 am »
Trichinosis is very rare in developed countries like the US:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis

I suspect that you have confused trichinosis with toxoplasmosis, given the above comments as they fit the latter condition more:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2010, 08:42:51 am »
No Tyler I am not mistaken, trust me on this one, I live in the southeastern united states and I remember my own mother telling me about the study where 7% of autopsy's find trichinosis. The studies have been buried under what whitewash the mainstream has put out , (I have noticed this type of thing happen since the beginning of history). The main stream will bury some of the facts of life that they don't want us to know, especially for something like trichinosis which there is basically nothing they can do. The conventional treatments are often more harmfull than having the worm.

Although toxoplasmosis is also a universal and prevalent issue, I have even heard on a national public radio show about how the majority of humans have had it and that it may be responsible for a large percentage of diagnosed mental illness,.

This is why I made the stand alone statement about how Trichinosis and blood parasites are not taken as seriously as they should be, If you are immune suppressed to the point you have a trichinosis infestation, then I have no doubt that you are also susceptible to bloodparisites.

So the main issue I am raising ties back into the Idea of how immune suppressed individuals may need exposure to more harmless organisms like hook worms and whipworms to prime the immune system in a way to strengthen it against the more harmful ones like Trichinosis and toxoplasmosis. This is where my intersest in the subject has left me.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 08:56:47 am by sabertooth »
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Offline laterade

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2010, 01:30:23 pm »
I recall Aajonus talking about trichinosis as the best detoxification on Earth; which a heckuva bullocks of course :D

Where did AV say that Trich was a good detox?
Sounds like typical AV crazy talk but I would like to hear his reasoning.

No there is an even better one, just kill every living human. Best detoxification for Earth LOL

Fuck that... I think I may fall into that category.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2010, 10:57:55 pm »
Where did AV say that Trich was a good detox?
Sounds like typical AV crazy talk but I would like to hear his reasoning.

Fuck that... I think I may fall into that category.
Re fu...... LOL

AV mentions it on his video set. I know what you mean about the crazy talk but he does spin a pretty good web on the subject. He mentions that you can but it on the web. Along with other stuff that escapes my memory for now.
Cheers
Al

Offline laterade

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 11:58:27 pm »
Not to say I think he is incorrect... I agree with most of his crazy talk, but it is still crazy talk LOL
I'd rather take an approach similar to his and fail, than to take the doctors war approach at all.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 12:48:48 am »
Re fu...... LOL

AV mentions it on his video set. I know what you mean about the crazy talk but he does spin a pretty good web on the subject. He mentions that you can but it on the web. Along with other stuff that escapes my memory for now.
Sorry I noticed a typo. I meant to say...
He mentions that you can get it on the web. (trichonosis) He shows a vial full of it on the video I believe.
Cheers
Al

Offline raw-al

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Re: Helminthic worm therapy
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2010, 12:50:20 am »
Not to say I think he is incorrect... I agree with most of his crazy talk, but it is still crazy talk LOL
I'd rather take an approach similar to his and fail, than to take the doctors war approach at all.
I agree.
Frinstance leeches have been used by Ayurveda for thousands of years.
Cheers
Al

 

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