Author Topic: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin  (Read 11202 times)

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Offline MrBBQ

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Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« on: December 22, 2010, 06:29:04 pm »
Hey all,

It's a while since I've been around here, mainly out of severely poor health with apparently nowhere to go anymore. I'm in complete turmoil and have no idea if there's a way out for me. I'm so underweight with no possibility to gain any weight.

I have developed serious metabolic problems to the extent that my muscles have wasted, my teeth are crumbling and my sleep cycle is totally nonexistent. My body seems to be in a severely catabolic state and I can't eat more than a small amount of fat without diarrhea, plus I think too much meat/fat and maybe not eating enough has driven me into this hyperadrenal stress state (along with cumulative stress throughout life).

I've been on some forums for adrenal fatigue, although it seems that megadosing on synthetic vitamin C is often the answer, along with other stuff like regularly eating neolithic foods etc. Many people report that adrenal glandulars make them worse etc., so I really feel I'm in a hole here.

Thinking about what to do and what to implement to turn the tide is proving to be massively overwhelming for me, thinking about the myriad of possible paths I could take according to my dampened intuitive sense.

I'm also thinking that I will have to remineralise with calcium/magnesium, although I've tried so many things to do this in the past, I already know it's a challenge, especially on a paleo diet. Dairy makes my teeth brittle.

Ultimately, it seems that most SAD dieters are far healthier than me and I really wonder what a wise move could be in this situation. I seem to be beyond what could be healthy now, so it's probably more an exercise in damage limitation.

Very low carb seems to have pushed me in the direction of low body temperature and metabolic ruin, although I'm not confounding it totally.

Does anyone have any wisdom for me to seek in these tricky times that are threatening my livelihood/life?

I would really appreciate anything you can offer because this thing seems to be taking me under right now.

Please help my soul...

Very best,

Scotty
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

Offline miles

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 06:38:20 pm »
Change to a part-time job.
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Offline MrBBQ

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 07:09:38 pm »
I've just stopped working altogether for now, which is the dire state I'm in - the doctor can only sign me off until I get conclusive test results back from the hospital though...At which point, I may have to give up my job and house - and any semblance of a good quality diet...

I am a paleo casualty, it seems - I feel like an animal in nature that has lost its habitat and simply gets driven to extinction...
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 07:30:22 pm »
I've just stopped working altogether for now, which is the dire state I'm in - the doctor can only sign me off until I get conclusive test results back from the hospital though...At which point, I may have to give up my job and house - and any semblance of a good quality diet...

I am a paleo casualty, it seems - I feel like an animal in nature that has lost its habitat and simply gets driven to extinction...

Hi MrBBQ, sorry to see you're going through a hard time. I'm going through my own problems so I know how frustrating and scary it can be especially when you try so hard to fix things by following numerous paths only to find that things dont improve.

Can I ask what it is you are eating nowadays given your bad response to the very low carb eating - crumbling teeth, poor sleep etc ?Are you still very low carb? The reason I ask is that I have tried eating very low to zero carb for period of time but it never worked and its only after talking recently to people on this forum that I am now going to start adding a certain amount of carbs back in my diet albeit raw paleo carbs. Perhaps adding more raw paleo carbs back in your diet might help things until your doctor comes back with his results.

I dont really know what to advise as i'm not experienced enough but just thought i'd add my two cents.Hope you find the answers you need.

Maybe you could read this thread I posted recently as it has some good ideas and thoughts from experienced people in this forum - http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/raw-complex-carb-options/

Offline yuli

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 07:47:58 pm »
I am a paleo casualty, it seems - I feel like an animal in nature that has lost its habitat and simply gets driven to extinction...

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

What else do you do besides go to doctors, work and worry about yourself? Do you have any hobbies or activities that you really enjoy? Like painting, running, yoga, martial arts, sculpture, writing, reading etc...perhaps get a cat or dog if you enjoy animals.... it just sounds like you need a break to get back to the realm of being a normal human animal, this is all part of a good life, without it, there is no comfort, no habitat and you will feel like you are some kind of dying creature.

I don't know what kind of diets you have tried but seems you tried a lot of stuff and you are overly mechanical and technical the way you go about eating, once you loose the sense of what your body really wants to sustain itself no measuring of fats or carbs or ketones is gonna help ya...Eat what you enjoy for now and eat substenant foods, eat lots of live and fermented foods, more complex carbs, keep eating the raw meat, only add as much fat as you feel like eating and don't eat only fat by itself. Keep eating raw but add simple cooked tubers if you can tolerate them and you will gain more weight quickly. Add a few fresh greens to keep your stomach clean, if you need take the vitamin C and take vit D, I know people here are against them but I think it'll do ya good, any extra you'll just piss it out. Add some sea salts and sea vegetables for minerals, you eat raw eggs still? put the ground egg shell with the egg and eat the whole thing. I have no professional knowledge but thats what I feel you need from the little I know about you and my own experience.

Good luck on your journey

Offline wodgina

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 08:01:27 pm »
I like Yuli's advice.

do you own your house or renting? you know there's plenty of other jobs out there and you said your parents would put you up.


You could try 'don't give a fuck mindset' just give up the fight...completely...on your health...you crumbling teeth...your diet... everything. I know someone who got so ill and skinny from IBS that his lung collapsed and ended up in hospital. He hit rock bottom he took a job 3 days a week and then rebuilt himself by just not caring what people thought of him anymore. He now drinks coke and eats KFC, now thats success!

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline cliff

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 11:08:15 pm »
http://www.180degreehealth.com/

overfeed anyone?  Let the flaming begin lol

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 12:06:27 am »
You need a professional healer.  Sanatorium maybe.  Check in and let him do his thing on you.
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Offline KD

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 12:17:39 am »


I've been on some forums for adrenal fatigue, although it seems that megadosing on synthetic vitamin C is often the answer, along with other stuff like regularly eating neolithic foods etc. Many people report that adrenal glandulars make them worse etc., so I really feel I'm in a hole here.


Ultimately, it seems that most SAD dieters are far healthier than me and I really wonder what a wise move could be in this situation. I seem to be beyond what could be healthy now, so it's probably more an exercise in damage limitation.


http://www.180degreehealth.com/

overfeed anyone?  Let the flaming begin lol

all the MS stuff is starting to get a bit obnoxious, but in the case its totally appropriate. I mean you cannot or likely cannot get better in this state trying to micromanage a diet and lifestyle that is based in absolutes about what is healthy or will fix X Y and Z at the same time. I think again most people share the same sentiment as before, eat whatever kinds of foods you can eat, get the rest you need by any means possible, and try things one at a time (like vit C or whatever, not an expert in that) while trying to maintain some overall sense of fun, purpose etc... That in itself should be challenging enough.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 01:31:21 am »
Hey there buddy,

I almost sent you a private message the last time you posted. But what I did was send a private message to someone else because I was concerned about you. We've had great talks back and forth off this forum for which I am very grateful for your time and advice. I always appreciated your intense search for pathways to achieve extreme health. Your knowledge of very intricate details of liver flushing and herbal remedies is quite superior. I almost liken you to Nikola Tesla, the true mad scientist of the 20th century, because of your ability to create new health alternatives.

All that said, I think it is exactly because of your genius and your ability to come up with these new health initiatives that you are becoming sick. One of my great math professors told me in college that if we didn't like the grade on the test he was handing back then he advised "to do something different". I think you could gain substantially from this advice. Just do something different.

For whatever reasons (which aren't really that important right now) you can experiment with something completely different. I have undergone this sort of experiment with wild success. I no longer post on message forums. Rarely if ever look at anything relating to diet. Rarely use the computer at all. As well as eating everything, having no limits about it and feeling good about what I am doing. Sanity has been restored to me as I was attempting to control my diet as a means of controlling my life which had no control. I have no dietary constraints, I just eat whatever I'm in the mood for. No regrets, except for when I eat 7 donuts. 3 donuts and I'm still good :)

I do like Matt Stone's advice about extreme dieting. You are young and will live no matter what you eat. You can always come back to RPD. If anyone has tried all the combinations of RPD I think its you. Perhaps its time to do something outside RPD.

Offline MrBBQ

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 03:47:16 am »
Matt Stone made the interesting point of eating "to appetite" and for a time, I gained some nice weight eating the pseudo-paleo tubers, feeling much more energised than usual. However, my teeth suffered more than fruity raw paleo, so I toned it down again.

I know that the mineral content of my paleo diet was not enough because as soon as I experimented with nettle/oatstraw infusions, I felt my teeth mineralising and strengthening from the copious minerals in those plants (something that I had to quit due to side effects from the herbs).

So while I was trying to find a nice source of balanced minerals (calcium, magnesium, silica), I was suddenly presented with the onset of severe adrenal fatigue - something that could have plagued me initially since my raw vegan days of hair falling out and eating insufficient calories (but only in the early stages).

Most people around here talk about "adrenal fatigue" as if it's just lack of energy, although adrenal fatigue has much more wide-ranging effects like severe insomnia (due to dysfunctional cortisol), water/sodium losses (due to low aldosterone production), catabolism of healthy tissues (due to chronic high cortisol) and plenty of other neurological manifestations.

If one's body is breaking down each day with noticeable effect, is it simple to not be concerned/alarmed, even though one knows that this could feedback into the stress loop?

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater and putting one's paleo principles in the background seems half-sensical, especially when one has desired to heal. After all, isn't that what drew people to paleo in the first place - a more optimal approach to life?

Self-presentation in this life is important for securing pleasurable work, new relationships etc. and my will to improve my teeth and now recover from adrenal fatigue is part of just being meticulous from the perspective of Weston Price and most people around here healing themselves etc. Most people from the naturopathic colleges here don't even know about phytic acid, let alone AGEs, PUFAs etc., so I'm not sure if there advice is complete.

@PaleoDonk: I did enjoy our discussions myself and I appreciate your kudos/comradeship. I seem to remember that from your pictures, your skin, hair and teeth aren't as "unhealed" as mine, so you have the buffers to enjoy the wider limits of donutdom. Respectfully, your point about not stressing over diet is appreciated, particularly at this time, although it seems to be reckless to introduce "any old thing". Funnily enough though, I've found myself becoming stressed about what to eat next and how it might affect me. I really wonder if I can keep a well-stocked paleo cupboard with enough calories and minerals all the time.

Sometimes, I suppose the answers do "come from nowhere", but I have read so many success anecdotes over the years and rationalised many parts of my diet, which others have claimed successful.

The question is, can one implement the "wisdom of ancient tribes" in this domesticated ecosystem successfully? In my case, I'm not certain...yet my demineralised teeth will tell their tale...
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2010, 07:43:56 am »
Whats more impressive than your ability to completely outdo everyone here with your knowledge of alternative medicine is your ability to somehow show tremendous care and love with your posts. It is rather uncanny to be able to achieve this over the internet and I surely wish to emulate that style if I ever start posting again.

As for any help. I certainly have no new ideas within rpd to help you. But I'm wondering what exactly are you looking for? Some key element of the puzzle(a burning bush?) that will miraculously pull your health from the edge? Do you believe that there is a solution(within the rpd construct) from this forum that will put you on track? I'm not sure there is, but perhaps you can elaborate on what you are looking for.

Also, how long of a search are you willing to do if your health continues down the path you believe it is?

Are you still liver flushing? I think this could potentially be dangerous especially the amount that you've done. I'm not sure there are many that have ever flushed as many times as you and remain on a high fat diet. We don't know how multiple liver flushes will effect the ability to handle fats at the level of an average rpd.

Also, I'm by nature very skeptical of peoples self description of their problems and their own ability to categorize how they look. I did post some pictures of myself a while back looking for people to tell me something was wrong. They did the opposite. Perhaps you can post pictures of yourself so that we can objectify your ailments and see if you have been too harsh a critic.

Offline King Salmon

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 11:51:01 am »
He now drinks coke and eats KFC, now thats success!

I have no dietary constraints, I just eat whatever I'm in the mood for. No regrets, except for when I eat 7 donuts. 3 donuts and I'm still good :)



Wow,talk about going full circle.I tried that.Didn't work.Best thing I've found is to isolate the "root problem" then deal with it in a direct way.In other words,once you isolate the problem,you can then isolate the "antidote".
My problem was that I was misguided about fruits(amongst other things).Once I "fixed" that,I improved.Good luck on your journey.
"Eat the best of what's available and call it a day"

Offline miles

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 01:01:41 pm »
My problem was that I was misguided about fruits(amongst other things).Once I "fixed" that,I improved.Good luck on your journey.

Please explain.
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Offline King Salmon

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2010, 12:40:06 am »
Please explain.

I was sold on the idea that juicing fruits was good for me.I developped candida due to too much sugar intake over time starting as a teenager.I thought that fruits were "cleansing".It just made me worse.I had to switch to meat & fats as soon as possible....years later.
"Eat the best of what's available and call it a day"

Offline dsohei

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2010, 02:30:02 am »
go see a good doctor - naturopathic and or biological/functional/integrative medicine. get all the bloodwork and nutrient testing done, hormone panels, etc. better to spend a few thousand dollars now then to suffer and get worse.
sometimes i think that after a certain point of un-health, even healthy diets such as RPD cannot reverse the tide quickly enough and we may need sensible targeted medical intervention.

Busgrw

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2010, 04:00:47 am »
go see a good doctor - naturopathic and or biological/functional/integrative medicine. get all the bloodwork and nutrient testing done, hormone panels, etc.

Hi dsohei.

Have you got any examples of these as I wouldn't know where to start. Any good places in the USA (assuming you live there) that I could look up the websites of to get an idea of what to look for in the UK.

Thanks.

Offline miles

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2010, 12:41:16 pm »
King Salmon: You said you eat bell peppers, are you concerned at all about them being nightshades?

Last night I cooked a sweet potato and a potato, I ate them and it made me feel terrible. I had muscle pains, tiredness, weird feeling like something was moving in my gut, and slept for ages afterwards. Do you think this was because the stuff was cooked, or because of the potato(nightshade)?

I want to get virtually all my energy from raw animals, but to also have some micro-nutritious plants alongside as my ideal really. But whenever I eat some plants like lettuce, cucumber, mushrooms or whatever, I then(so far) can't help moving on to fruit.

I kind of feel best if I eat only meat, but there's always something niggling now that I should eat some plants, instinctively, so I do. I'd like to eat plants without many carbs in. Once I start I always end up having some fruit, and it kind of makes me feel less good when I do. However, it's all relative, as I still feel very good and I'm reminded of that especially after last night trying the cooked sweet potato & potato. I just feel it'd be even better if I could stick to low-carb plants.

p.s. To the instincto people who say I shouldn't be thinking about whether it's low-carb, high-carb or whatever, it's just a way of describing that type of plant. If we didn't know what carbs were there would be some other term I could use, like 'the plants which make me feel refreshed but don't give me energy' or something... It's nothing to do with any study on carbs being bad or something, just the way I feel, instinctively. If you go all the way (Iguana)Instincto(not instinctive, which is just a part of paleo) would have us not using any words at all to describe anything.

Even with how the cooked sweet potato and cooked potato made me feel is relative, I wouldn't mind eating them again if I needed the energy, so it was only 'terrible' relative to how I normally feel. I certainly wouldn't want to feel like that regularly though and would do everything I could to find another food-source.

By the way Iguana nothing against you or Instincto. I would welcome your comment and respond to it, but I anticipated it before you made it that's all. So please continue to make such comments!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 12:59:04 pm by miles »
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Offline yuli

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2010, 12:54:41 pm »
miles you could be allergic to nightshades,
I've been eating nightshades since ever so I feel used to them, can't notice any weird effects. I also like red bell peppers a lot...
Perhaps you felt bad from the potato cause you ate a sweet potato with a regular one and thats A) a ton of complex carbs to eat for someone whos used to only eating meat and fruit, so you may need to only have a bit.... B) You eat your food all raw, when you get used to 100% raw you stomach wont know right away to digest it when you eat a bunch of cooked items....its more complex to digest then raw meat and fruits. C) regular potato is not sweet potato, I usually eat them separately....D) I dunno if you did this but when I eat potato I always it it with a ton of butter and/or a fermented dairy such as kefir or sourkraut. Dunno if that makes a difference but it something to consider.

Maybe you just need to find the veggie you like, not everyone can eat the same ones, a good example are nightshades

Offline KD

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2010, 01:10:54 pm »
miles you could be allergic to nightshades,
I've been eating nightshades since ever so I feel used to them, can't notice any weird effects. I also like red bell peppers a lot...
Perhaps you felt bad from the potato cause you ate a sweet potato with a regular one and thats A) a ton of complex carbs to eat for someone whos used to only eating meat and fruit, so you may need to only have a bit.... B) You eat your food all raw, when you get used to 100% raw you stomach wont know right away to digest it when you eat a bunch of cooked items....its more complex to digest then raw meat and fruits. C) regular potato is not sweet potato, I usually eat them separately....D) I dunno if you did this but when I eat potato I always it it with a ton of butter and/or a fermented dairy such as kefir or sourkraut. Dunno if that makes a difference but it something to consider.

Maybe you just need to find the veggie you like, not everyone can eat the same ones, a good example are nightshades

yeah my first experience with cooked starch after another stint of another 6 or so months with all raw mostly RAF was awful. They were in fact red potatoes. have had less problems now with yellow jewel yams here and there with sauerkraut and raw fats as oposed to eating them separately. I personally think a combination of much of the above is likely.

 peppers (a non sweet fruit) are going to be fairly differnt than tomatoes (a juicy non sweet fruit) or potatos indpendent of them being 'nightshades'. most nightshades just happen to have alot of drawbacks - as well as perhaps assets - associated as individual foods due to various properties.

Offline dsohei

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2010, 01:33:49 am »
busgrw- yes, there are many names for these types of doctors and you need to do your research but here are some words you can google
naturopathic functional medicine, biological medicine, functional biological medicine, preventative medicine, etc
here are some luminaries in the US, take a look at the websites so you know the general idea
mark hyman http://drhyman.com/ he has written some great books
http://clearcenterofhealth.com/ this is where i go, as you can see they have various practitioners and combine modalities- chinese medicine, M.D.s, osteopaths, etc.
here's a place in San Fran http://www.sfpmg.com/

a good place should either have many methods available, like a collective of healers, or if it's just one doctor, they should offer full blood testing, nutrient testing, hormone panels, etc. they will have extensive knowledge of autoimmune conditions, food allergies, and hormonal imbalances.
it should be very professional and they will take time to answer your questions, this is NOT like the typical medical establishment that treats people like fools. these doctors are educators and generally use nutrition and nutritional supplements to heal, along with hormones if necessary and other adjunctive methods such as chiropractic, acupuncture, exercise, etc for whatever is needed.. sometimes the techniques are very cutting edge and "weird" to the general uneducated public.

Offline dsohei

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2010, 01:37:04 am »
one more thing, when interviewing doctors, find one that supports, practices and promotes a strict paleo/primal diet or weston price style eating/GAPS diet. these docs understand the value of high quality raw and cooked animal foods, and you wont have to explain yourself too much. it helps if the doctor is athletic and/or NOT a plant-based diet proponent.

Offline Angeline

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Re: Desperation For Health & Metabolic Ruin
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2011, 04:09:03 pm »
I've read that you have done lots of liver cleanses. After 18 months of numerous liver cleanses, short fasts, and various detox protocols, I found myself in the hospital in a state of psychosis. I was 48 years old with no prior episode of psychosis. Soon after the psychosis, I went into a deep depression. Too much cleansing and detoxing had left me in a state of severe mineral/nutrient deficiency with a very sick body full of fungus. I went through such misery. As I read over what has been discussed, it sounded to me like you are in a state of severe mineral/nutrient deficiency. Probably gut dysbiosis. I think it would be good to find a naturopath who can run tests. I saw a naturopath who ran a lot of tests and diagnosed me with a candida overgrowth, leaky gut, vitamin D deficiency, and hormonal imbalance. Her protocol of herbs and supplements didn't help me much but her diagnosis led to a lot of research focusing on specific issues. It was clear I needed to be nourishing rather than cleansing, and in order to be nourished I needed to heal my gut. I found 3 websites that led to my recovery: www.truehealth.org, www.gapsdiet.com, and www.homodiet.netfirms.com. At that point I was not able to tolerate raw foods. I began eating lightly cooked, wild caught fish daily. I ate bone broths with lightly cooked grassfed meats and vegetables. I had to completely eliminate fruit, honey, and all starch. They immediately fed the fungus and my scalp would start itching within 30 minutes. I felt best on a high fat, sufficient protein, low carb diet. When I felt better, I was able to gradually replace cooked foods with raw. Several family members and a friend have since used the same approach for a variety of health problems with good results. It sounds like you are extremely depleted and weakened. I was. I rebuilt much faster than I thought I could.

 

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