Author Topic: what happend to neolithic eden  (Read 8928 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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what happend to neolithic eden
« on: January 04, 2011, 01:16:17 pm »
So I am not so dense that I have completely written off the fact that there have been times and places where the people lived happily and into prosperous old age on farm fresh cooked foods. I have seen the remnant's of such a neolithic Eden in Northern California ,Perhaps its only gone with the wind nostalgia but I talked to people who lived from before the second world war.

There were farms out that way where the children were taught collage level material at grade school age. These one room schools were so much better for educating the young than anything else we have today. A school marm would be put up by the comunity and her sole mission would be to educate the children to the best of their abilities, this gave her the freedom to allow the bright and gifted to study anything at any grade level as soon as they were ready. The state government eventually went in and shut down these schools, even though some of the brightest minds were being produced in the old methods.

These people drank a lot of raw milk and ate cooked meats, everything was organic and fresh. They didn't seem to be affected by the damage of cooked foods .  These people ate cooked foods but since everything was so clean and pure it didn't harm them because they had pristine alimentary conditions. They knew how to balance themselves. The kids would gather dandelions for the 90 something year old Granny to make wine with. The cows were hand milked every morning. They had some type of powdered flower that they spread around the garden to repell bugs.

They practised the most wise forms of folk medicine. This man I talked to was born premature and barely 4 pounds and was sure to die. His grandmother put him in a goose egg incubator and feeds him with a dropper for weeks day and night and he lives. A country Doctor feeds anemic children a remedy of raw lungs and heart. They build their own sweat lodges and will sweat out in the wintertime. They use smoke house to prepare a good amount of their meats.

Its not heaven but when teddy Roosevelt took his tour of northern California at the turn of last century he saw a place he compaired to ancient Athens. So what the F happened and why cant we live as they did. It seems that nothing last and the progressives destroyed those farmland communities that existed throughout that part of the world. Once the kids were taken away from the Old culture and away from the untainted food, Within one generation the whole thing evaporated. The reason that it worked is because the way the generations rely upon each other ,the young worked and the old did all the odd chores while teaching the children the old traditions in the process. Once factory farms came into power then the jobs that the old and young did were gone and so the Old generation went out to pasture and the young were put into kennels(classrooms) This is to force class upon us. They teach us class alright. What is offered in classrooms is as poisonous to our spirit as the cafeteria food is to our guts.     I digress.  

My Idea is that neolithic Edens existed, but you have to recognize it for what it is. There was life,love, hate , death, ignorance, and even in the best of the communities there were some sons of bastards. They had very admirable traits, and had their flaws. What is important and primary to my interest is that they had a better quality of life, they had health and a better capacity to enjoy the precious gift of life and were not subject to the pollution that we must now endure. Is there a way back to that world ? or is it gone forever and just figment of a poor imagination?

I guess I will have to find my own Eden or die trying.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 01:40:02 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline laterade

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 01:46:22 pm »
It is certainly depressing when one wakes up to smell the bureaucrats. The low feeling passes when you realize the opportunity.
There is no way back... but there is no doubt in my mind that if we continue to work toward paradise then it is inevitable that we will look back at these days in confusion, if we even have the desire to look back at all. The possibilities of what could be are absolutely wonderful.
We are living in the most exciting time I could ever imagine.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 02:34:09 pm »
Exciting times yes indeed, but I have an old quiet soul that would be at piece doing simple chores while dreaming my own dreams, in the company of others who lived and felt the same.

I am not sure how well my soul would be in a world where you are surrounded by the technical creations that make everyone ignorant of the ancient arts of good living. I see hell fire on the horizon bringing in the land of the damned so can anyone blame me for looking back at those few lifetimes of the closest thing to heaven that was ever real, at least the closest thing I will ever imagine. These generations of farm folk and hill folk that lived not long ago. They were the best examples neolithic life had to offer, at least in the eyes of this Kentucky Boy.

I am witness to things everyday that I would rather not and new technology is always incroaching on my quest for comfort. Making deals with the technical devil for the access to something called the internet is something I am guilty of, I use their machines to put into mental focus, Ideas and conceptions that would never occur to me otherwise. Is it a usefull tool like a magnifying glass that brings things into focus, or is it a tool for controlling the mind( spiritual possession).

 I think I am desensitized, to tragedy. A man told me about the time he saw a man cut in half by a steel cable that snapped while trying to pull a redwood tree up a hill. For years after it happened he would wake up screaming in night terrors, so even in Eden there is always things like that happening. I will see bad things all the time but never a nightmare. I do cry over sentimental moments, but other that sentimentality I am numb to most bad things.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 09:36:42 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline laterade

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 03:07:25 pm »
The funny thing about this planet is that we never really get to take a rest. The universe always has something for us to face and accomplish.
I would have loved to have lived the simple life, but I am sure that there would still be discontent, that is only human nature.
This is probably what drove us into this problem, and I am sure it will drive us into the next. Humans naturally feel the need to transcend.
Just like this conversation.  :D
There are more like us waking up every day. Sooner or later the medical/ corporate/ govt. war industries will have shot themselves in the foot too many times to persist. Something like 75 million diabetics... and just look at all of the infertility and cancer. These are bran new problems and I would be shocked if they lasted another 100 years. We are moving through a slow plague. Eventually all will awaken or perish.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 03:35:05 pm »
There never really was a "Neolithic" Eden. After all, when Neolithic times got started, the human race started deteriorating heavily health-wise, with a sheer drop in stature, all sorts of new illnesses started appearing and lifespan shortened considerably too. More to the point, the state of Eden in the Bible is supposed to hearken back to  pre-farming times(ie the Palaeolithic era, not the Neolithic at all).
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 05:20:42 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 04:15:40 pm »
We got information technology and transparency and the new green renewable technologies in the future our energy consumptions will be down 90% or more... so we can start building our own neolithic eden.  We can join forces with the electric universe / free energy people.  We can start.
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Offline wodgina

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 06:01:27 pm »
There never really was a "Neolithic" Eden. After all, when Neolithic times got started, the human race started deteriorating heavily health-wise, with a sheer drop in stature, all sorts of new illnesses started appearing and lifespan shortened considerably too. More to the point, the state of Eden in the Bible is supposed to hearken back to  pre-farming times(ie the Palaeolithic era, not the Neolithic at all).

I think you should reread Sabertooth's post. He was not really saying there was an Eden but highlighting the disparity of better times in the past to now.

My mum always says that things were simpler when she was younger and they just did stuff like get married have kids. That's what people did. There were no choices. They ate lard on bread and fatty casseroles.  Now people don't know what the want and constantly need entertainment/distraction. Things are fragmented.
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Offline wodgina

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2011, 06:49:49 pm »
I enjoy reading your posts Sabertooth.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2011, 07:10:05 pm »
I think you should reread Sabertooth's post. He was not really saying there was an Eden but highlighting the disparity of better times in the past to now.

My mum always says that things were simpler when she was younger and they just did stuff like get married have kids. That's what people did. There were no choices. They ate lard on bread and fatty casseroles.  Now people don't know what the want and constantly need entertainment/distraction. Things are fragmented.
I know, I read it properly. It's just that I am leery of nostalgia, as it is never reflective of the reality. There are always other matters in the past that  negated the positive things. As regards health in the past, my father mentioned  a childhood friend never fully recovering from polio, mentioned how moronic doctors removed his tonsils because it was the fad at the time, and how he would have died for sure if he hadn't hidden away some drugs and antibiotics that his nurse had tried to force-feed him when he was a child, etc. 
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline achillezzz

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2011, 08:08:44 pm »
I enjoy reading your posts Sabertooth.

Indeed he needs to be a writter or something I would buy his books  :)
ermm or I just download his book from warez website!!! yay  ;) Just joking sabertooh is great

Offline sabertooth

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 12:37:46 pm »
I know, I read it properly. It's just that I am leery of nostalgia, as it is never reflective of the reality. There are always other matters in the past that  negated the positive things. As regards health in the past, my father mentioned  a childhood friend never fully recovering from polio, mentioned how moronic doctors removed his tonsils because it was the fad at the time, and how he would have died for sure if he hadn't hidden away some drugs and antibiotics that his nurse had tried to force-feed him when he was a child, etc.  

I am fond of nostalgia its really nothing to be leery about. Much of what we admire about Paleo man could be viewed as nostalgia. I  personally believe nostalgia is indeed reflective of reality in the most significant of ways. I listen to the elders who speak of their childhood with such wonderment and love, while at the same time I know how poor many of them were and how terrible their living situations had been, and yet there is still that glimmer of joy when they tell of things long past, that gives me a feeling of being connected to something real.  Reality itself is non existant outside of the reflexions of individual experience, at least as far as the human mind is concerned. If one individual negates a lifetime of sorrows and chooses only to construct a fragmented Eden of fond and fuzzy memories, then I give praise for the spirit of that individual to be able to transend the bounds of brutal reality. Eden is and will always be nothing more than a memory in the mind of the nostalgic fool, it has no physical existence, its sublime within a spiritual plain.

I am aware there are many biological factors that could keep a seeker from being able to reach the place of Eden. Sickness, poor upbringing, even neolithic foods can distroy any attempt that the spirit makes to construct the neo Eden. The earth has been crawling with those damned souls who never had a chance to even peek at what Eden has to offer. That being said, I believe that there are isolated terrestrial environments which are inhabited by humans that do provide the greatest opportunity for the power of imagination to envision Eden, and I believe Eden existed in small pockets throughout all of human history, though I agree the Neolithic age has put a damper on things. Yet I contest that Paradise still would pop up from time to time among people who were the salt of the earth. Even in our own time pieces of Eden can be found. Eden is real, it may only be witnessed by a small number of people and last only for a short while.  Eden emerges through the accumulation of fond memories and  that carried our ancestors through the darker days of life. The biblical Eden seemed to tell the story of mankinds fall from grace , My Eden is the attempt to recapture that lost innocence and return to heaven on earth. Perhaps Eden isn't the best word to describe what I have in mind, but its close enough to use to get my ideas across.

To be able to negate all the stupidity and brutality and cultivate a mind full of hope and dreams is a noble aspiration. I will continue the tradition of seeing things in hindsight and no matter how bad things were in reality they were never too bad( according to my memory). If I can free myself from the hindrances that hold back the minds ability to construct paradise while at the same time building up my endocrine system with this wonderful diet so my mind can maintain a balanced and effervescent peak, I see no reason that I cant create my own personal Eden, and one day I will tell my grandchildren about how wonderfull it was, even if it wasn't exactly as I remembered it.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 01:09:58 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2011, 05:47:27 pm »
My 75 year old father in law never expected he would see 2011.

He grew up during the times life expectancy was 50.
He said he never expected in his youth to live more than 50.
He never expected to reach 2011.
All his law partners had died of cancers.
He is winding down his law firm for lack of partners.
He just got over 10 years of back pain when he met the most wonderful holistic TCM master acupuncturist to treat him.

I bet, many of us will be more than centenarians.
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Offline zeno

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2011, 01:55:20 am »
Contary to sabertooth's nostalgia expressed here, HSBC has other plans for the future. I found this advertisement in a recent edition of The Economist.


Offline Löwenherz

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 03:28:19 am »
My Idea is that neolithic Edens existed, but you have to recognize it for what it is.

Nice idea... tsss. I imagine such Eden in Morricone Wild Western atmospheres and pictures.

Regarding cooked food intake I guess that there is no way back for many of us due to an alarming increase of mytochondrial dysfunction. In such cases the body loses its ability to get rid of toxins very fast.

So, let's go directly to Paleo Eden.  :)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 04:07:45 am »
I agree with you, Sabertooth, that radical modernist Progressivism has created problems, selling people a bill of goods and possibly creating more problems than it solved, and I also think that Tyler is right to be wary of nostalgia, which has a tendency to distort the past.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
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Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 02:33:15 pm »
Sabertooth,

what do you think of the Mormons?

I don't know much about this group, I just heard that they live a very traditional lifestyle which sounds interesting..

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2011, 04:15:05 am »
Sabertooth,

what do you think of the Mormons?

I don't know much about this group, I just heard that they live a very traditional lifestyle ....


Unfortunately for them, they don't.  Mormons eat the SAD just like nearly all Americans.  I hear they go in for raw veganism in some cases, like a lot of fundamentalist Christian groups have started doing in the last 10 years or so, but they definitely don't live a traditional lifestyle.

On another note, I always find it odd when I hear of conservative Christians eating a raw paleo-style diet.  How can they be so evidence-based in one area of life, but such  unquestioning followers of established accepted dogmatic authority in another?

Offline sabertooth

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2011, 09:38:04 am »
Turn It Off

This sums up a few of my sentiments regarding the Mormon faith.

The Mormon people themselves are generally good people at least the ones that I have met. I can sympathize with people who follow more traditional faiths in the face of all this modern complexity.

Its kind of ironic that Mormons were brought up,

I was taken in by a Mormon when I was living as a vagabond in northern California. A truly remarkable human being . His stories are what I have based much of my ideas of Eden in this threads opening post.

He helped run an autistic hospital and raised over a million dollars for charity, before going insane and was forced to retire on 800 a month( He was a uni-polar maniac with an IQ of 160). Basically his mind burned with such intelligence that it never shut down.

 We collected recyclables in the middle of the night for extra money. He told me stories about his life being raised on a dairy farm in northern California during world war two.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 09:47:17 am by sabertooth »
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: what happend to neolithic eden
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2011, 04:37:44 am »
I find the religious diversity in todays America very interesting, not to say astonishing in such a "modern" industrial country.

Maybe you should start your own family farm!? Here in Europe you could find many old farmers without successors, I don't know the situation in your country..

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