Author Topic: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs  (Read 29525 times)

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Offline technosmith

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Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« on: January 23, 2011, 11:44:36 pm »
Hey Iguana,

Hope you are well.

Just wanted to ask you something.

On a recent post you said "Once you’ve excluded all artificial stuff, cereals, dairy, cooked, processed, mixed and seasoned food, about everything  you like can be tasted. If it smells good to you (and ideally triggers salivation), then why not carefully taste it (in case of doubtful stuff, keep it in the mouth 6 to 10 seconds to allow enough time to spit it if a bad taste appears) and eat as much as you want as long is it still tastes good and no bad feeling appears, just like an animal would do?"

Do you know this approach works even when eating something like berries, grapes, or melon. You know, foods that are quite light and sweet, and you would imagine it would be easy to over-eat. Is the instincto 'stop' clear?

Thanks,

Phil

Offline riy freeman

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 12:38:09 am »
fruit and its water content take up volume so you sense some fullness at some point. but the best guide is if you have indigestion symptoms afterward then you know not to eat so much next time ;)

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 12:53:56 am »
I like overeating watermelon when it starts feeling sweet I drink glass of cold water and continue eating it like crazy!!
I like to do it in the morning and it makes me soo full and relaxed untill evening then I have to eliminate the watermelon its very cleansing in my opinion!

Offline Iguana

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 02:14:44 am »
Hey Iguana,
Hope you are well.

Yes I’m fine, thanks!

Quote
On a recent post you said "Once you’ve excluded all artificial stuff, cereals, dairy, cooked, processed, mixed and seasoned food, about everything  you like can be tasted. If it smells good to you (and ideally triggers salivation), then why not carefully taste it (in case of doubtful stuff, keep it in the mouth 6 to 10 seconds to allow enough time to spit it if a bad taste appears) and eat as much as you want as long is it still tastes good and no bad feeling appears, just like an animal would do?"

Do you know this approach works even when eating something like berries, grapes, or melon. You know, foods that are quite light and sweet, and you would imagine it would be easy to over-eat. Is the instincto 'stop' clear?
Thanks,
Phil

Yes, it works with berries, grapes and melon. It’s just that the amount we can eat without problems is sometimes amazing.

Grapes stops you when you cannot eat their skin anymore. You might still go on by spitting the skin and eating the flesh, but then by doing so you may eat too much of it. My parents ate so much refined and cooked carbs that the couldn’t even eat a single whole grape anymore: they had to spit the skin even from the first grape they ate!

I never had any taste stop with melons: I stop when I feel satisfied and it can be after 3 medium size cantaloupe or galia. Never had any problem digesting it, but then I don’t feel like eating anything else which might make the digestion problematic. 

fruit and its water content take up volume so you sense some fullness at some point. but the best guide is if you have indigestion symptoms afterward then you know not to eat so much next time ;)

Yes, you better stop at the first sign of fullness, especially with modern cultivated and heavily selected fruits. I never had any indigestion with fruits, but of course, fruits should not be eaten shortly after or just before animal proteins or other classes of food.

I don’t think the indigestion symptom would be a reliable indicator, for as I said I never had any with fruits. You would get indigestion with bad associations or if you eat too many different species of fruits in the same meal or “cross eat” a fruit with a different one or other food. (By “cross eat” I mean eating something, for example honey till instinctive stop, then eating almonds till instinctive stop, then eating honey again – which would allow you to eat more almonds and so on.) 

Also, the amount eaten of a specific food can vary wildly form one day to the other according to our current needs, metabolic state and current digestive capacity. So it is useless to base the amount we should actually eat on the memory of the amount eaten last time.

I like overeating watermelon when it starts feeling sweet I drink glass of cold water and continue eating it like crazy!!
I like to do it in the morning and it makes me soo full and relaxed untill evening then I have to eliminate the watermelon its very cleansing in my opinion!

I wouldn’t eat watermelon, drink water and eat some watermelon again!  In general, it’s much better for digestion to drink before the meal, neither in the middle of a meal nor just after. 

Cheers
Francois
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline technosmith

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 02:26:10 am »
Hey Francois,

So if you keep it 'raw and pure' you believe that you can eat carbs without any restriction other than to stop when your body tells you its time to stop, either through feeling satisfied or through a loss of taste?

I guess this would also apply to raw fat as well, yer?

Thanks,

Phil


Offline Iguana

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 03:48:11 am »
So if you keep it 'raw and pure' you believe that you can eat carbs without any restriction other than to stop when your body tells you its time to stop, either through feeling satisfied or through a loss of taste?

I guess this would also apply to raw fat as well, yer?

In principle yes. But there can be a problem with some modern cultivated fruits and too easy accessibility of several kinds of fruits on our table. So, it’s better to limit oneself to one or two species of fruits per meal (and two meals a day anyway). Intake of acid cultivated fruits such as oranges or pineapples should certainly be limited – unless organic pineapples are overripe and deliciously alcoholic…  :P

I’ve been eating a lot of fruits since I was 18 years old, so it doesn’t trigger any detox on me whatever the amount I eat.

Yes, it applies to raw fat: if you neither process nor mix it, you can’t eat too much of it. Try to feed on ripe coconuts only… you’ll very soon be fed up of it!

Cheers
Francois
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Hanna

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 12:02:57 am »
Yes, it applies to raw fat: if you neither process nor mix it, you can’t eat too much of it. Try to feed on ripe coconuts only… you’ll very soon be fed up of it!

In my experience, it could be exactly the other way round: If you make raw coconut cream, you can eat less coconut than when you eat the hard unprocessed coconut meat because the coconut cream will be more completely digested, i. e. more of the coconut cream will be absorbed during digestion compared with the unprocessed coconut meat. Accordingly, you will have an earlier instinctive stop with raw coconut cream than with the unprocessed hard coconut meat. At least this seems to apply to myself.  :)

Offline Iguana

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 05:44:26 pm »
Yes it can also be the other way round, of course. Coconut cream is usually not intended to be ingested alone, but to be mixed with other foods in the cooking process. As a rule, cooking recipes are intended to make the food tasting better so that you can eat more of it (to drive the instinctive stop back), not to make it worse tasting in view that you eat less (advance  the instinctive stop)!

It’s quite easy to find processed stuff and mixtures that taste worse than the unprocessed and unmixed stuff.

Cheers
Francois  
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Hanna

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 06:25:44 pm »
Coconut cream is very tasty to me, just as the unprocessed coconut meat. Nevertheless, it has an earlier (or clearer?) instinctive stop to me compared with the unprocessed coconut meat. That´s a fact; I have done some experiments!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 06:35:40 pm by Hanna »

Offline rawcarni

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 06:51:20 pm »
Hi Iguana,
I also have a question re carbs for you: after about half a year or so of ZC with some greens thrown in once in a while I felt a strong craving for sugar-and wanted to start eating cake, chocolate and bread stuff. I went and got myself some fruit and they tasted heavenly. That was 3 days ago. I thought my body was telling me sth. and I better go back eating fruit but now I experience some weird muscle stiffness in my legs and some cramping in my foot. Also my feet tend to become cold after eating fruit. Do you think I should wait until that is over and go on eating fruit or stop it? I feel like eating lots of fruit the last two days. I hardly want any meat at all anymore. But I am not sure what to do now really.
How much fruit do you eat on average? Do you think it's a bad idea eating lots of fruit (because of the sugar)?
Many thanks
Nicole


Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 10:44:54 pm »
Hi Iguana,
I also have a question re carbs for you: after about half a year or so of ZC with some greens thrown in once in a while I felt a strong craving for sugar-and wanted to start eating cake, chocolate and bread stuff. I went and got myself some fruit and they tasted heavenly. That was 3 days ago. I thought my body was telling me sth. and I better go back eating fruit but now I experience some weird muscle stiffness in my legs and some cramping in my foot. Also my feet tend to become cold after eating fruit. Do you think I should wait until that is over and go on eating fruit or stop it? I feel like eating lots of fruit the last two days. I hardly want any meat at all anymore. But I am not sure what to do now really.
How much fruit do you eat on average? Do you think it's a bad idea eating lots of fruit (because of the sugar)?
Many thanks
Nicole

Sounds like your body wants you to find your balance as it swings like a pendelum from one extreme to the other. 

I do get into zero carb for a few days when I'm stressed.  I don't know why, but my body just wants meat when I'm stressed. 

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Offline Susan

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2011, 05:24:39 am »
I do get into zero carb for a few days when I'm stressed.  I don't know why, but my body just wants meat when I'm stressed. 

When I'm stressed, I know, I have eaten to much carbohydrates. After a day or two eating only herbs, nuts or meat a celestial peace is inside me and nothing can disturb it. :)

This stuff contains a lot of fats and I think this is the reason why my nerves are strong again.

Unfortunately I'm still attracted by sweet stuff but the experience that they cause stress inside and outside me makes it easier to avoid it.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 06:21:19 am »
Same here. Though, of course, if I continue long-term withholding carbs, I get even more stressed.
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Offline Louna

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2011, 06:37:51 am »
Same...
Fruits are ok before physique activity for me.
If I am not active physically, and eat too much fruits (specially high glucidic ones), I tend to be very distract excited and next tired.
Fat calm me and my insulin.

Sensible balance to find.

Some of my fruitarian friend say they experienced big tiredness of the body and mind with meat.
So I don't know really what to conclude for them.
But for me I know !

Offline Iguana

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2011, 04:37:53 pm »
Hi Iguana,
I also have a question re carbs for you: after about half a year or so of ZC with some greens thrown in once in a while I felt a strong craving for sugar-and wanted to start eating cake, chocolate and bread stuff. I went and got myself some fruit and they tasted heavenly. That was 3 days ago. I thought my body was telling me sth. and I better go back eating fruit but now I experience some weird muscle stiffness in my legs and some cramping in my foot. Also my feet tend to become cold after eating fruit. Do you think I should wait until that is over and go on eating fruit or stop it? I feel like eating lots of fruit the last two days. I hardly want any meat at all anymore. But I am not sure what to do now really.
How much fruit do you eat on average? Do you think it's a bad idea eating lots of fruit (because of the sugar)?
Many thanks
Nicole

Looks like the others have comprehensively answered; both firsts links from Hanna give to opinion of GCB on this matter. Sorry, I've been busy and couldn't reply myself, but please let me know if you still think I should answer.

Cheers
François
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline rawcarni

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2011, 05:38:37 pm »
Looks like the others have comprehensively answered; both firsts links from Hanna give to opinion of GCB on this matter. Sorry, I've been busy and couldn't reply myself, but please let me know if you still think I should answer.

Cheers
François
Yes I woild LOVE you to answer! From reading your posts the last two days you seem to be a very wise man from whom I could learn a lot.
Many thanks
Nicole

Offline rawcarni

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2011, 05:56:21 pm »
I just wanted to add: Thanks for all the suggestions anyone -still I am undecided about waht to do. Re the suspected mineral imbalances: of course I have been thinking about that too. The cramps: you see this is really NOT my biggest issue: its more like i have a constant tightness/stiffness in my legs. Besides I have joint pain. And today on my run my foot did fell numb again. So I am wondering if that's more of an allergic reaction to the fruit rather than some imbalance of nutrients.
Cheers
Nicole

Offline Hanna

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2011, 08:32:51 pm »
>>So I am wondering if that's more of an allergic reaction to the fruit rather than some imbalance of nutrients.

I had a very strong pollen allergy in the past (before I began to eat a raw food diet). When I eat too much fruit / sugar, mild pollen allergy symptoms return. I´m even under the impression that I react mildly allergic to some foods and especially to certain fruits during the pollen season in case that I eat too much of these foods and too much sugar in general. But that doesn´t mean that I cannot eat any fruit at all.

I eat vegetables and/or greens almost everyday and I think this is very important in order to stay "balanced" - unless I eat lots of animal food!

Offline Hanna

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2011, 09:47:57 pm »
Apropos fruit...

Quote
fructose is ten or seventeen times as good as glucose at AGE formation, depending on which AGE you look at and which model you use. (...) Bear in mind that, while fructose is only present in the systemic circulation in trace amounts (which are probably bad for you) it will be present in copious amounts in the portal vein from gut to liver after each fruit meal.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/AGE%20RAGE%20and%20ALE%20%281%29%3A%20The%20AGE%20of%20LDL

So there are good reasons to limit sugar intake whether fruits are "paleo" or not.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2011, 09:58:21 pm »
Hi Iguana,
I also have a question re carbs for you: after about half a year or so of ZC with some greens thrown in once in a while I felt a strong craving for sugar-and wanted to start eating cake, chocolate and bread stuff. I went and got myself some fruit and they tasted heavenly. That was 3 days ago. I thought my body was telling me sth. and I better go back eating fruit but now I experience some weird muscle stiffness in my legs and some cramping in my foot. Also my feet tend to become cold after eating fruit. Do you think I should wait until that is over and go on eating fruit or stop it? I feel like eating lots of fruit the last two days. I hardly want any meat at all anymore. But I am not sure what to do now really.
How much fruit do you eat on average? Do you think it's a bad idea eating lots of fruit (because of the sugar)?
Many thanks
Nicole

Well, I don’t know!
 
It depends on many parameters such as whether the fruits are wild or intensively cultivated, acids or not. GCB stance is that the culprit is not the sugar contents but the acidity of some varieties of fruits cultivated in temperate areas.

We don’t have any experience with people having eaten no carbohydrates at all for long periods. This would probably have been an extreme an very unusual situation for our ancestors primates and anthropoids, so it’s quite possible that the sudden return to a more natural situation could be troublesome.

GCB told us about a cow having been fed grain and denatured food for her whole live; when put to grazing, she died  shortly afterwards. Fish is a normal food for ducks, but I hardly feed my ducks with fish and there’s none in the water  flowing out of my spring. One day, I found very cheap sardines and I bought a lot. There were many left for my ducks and they gorged on it very quickly. The next morning one of them was dead: she was full of sardines in the stomach and even in the beak!  

I am really not sure if I believe in this detox-stuff any longer after my recent fruit-desaster (after soem time ZC I reintroduced fruits and got very strong muscle stiffness, cramps, and joint pain). I think it is some type of allergy. My reason for this thinking: I had been eating more than 3years vegan before I started paleo diet. After 2 weeks or so I started ZC. Now if the fruit-desaster happened due to the fact that my body just wasn't used anymore to eating plants (as someone suggested) then why didn't I get any negative reactions eating fish & meat for the first time after 3 years without any animal foods at all? The only thing that happened with eating meat was that it felt a bit heavy in my stomach. But my body didn't react in any negative way. Instead: the more meat I ate the better I felt. so I think that the healthier your diet becomes the more sensitive you react to food that your body obviously doesn't like.
just my 2cents
Nicole

Why no negative reaction to fish/meat and reaction with fruits? I don’t know, but it seems that fruits is the class of food which triggers the more detox reactions. Since we know that cooked and typically Neolithic food (cereals and dairy) brings abnormal molecules into our body (intoxination), then we should admit that detoxination can occur. Otherwise there would be no hope to heal and get to a normal weight again for the sick and obese people while on the contrary experience shows that sick and obese people can regain a perfect health and weight under instinctive paleo nutrition.

So what I would try in your case is to start a gradual transition, with per example a single well chosen kind of fruit (as wild as possible) per day initially and in limited amount at first. If meat is currently not attractive anymore and if I were nevertheless hungry, I would eat other stuff such as vegetables, nuts, coconut, avocados  - and perhaps eggs and seafood if it’s still attractive.  Then progressively allow myself more fruits.

Hope this helps!
Francois
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 10:05:37 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline rawcarni

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 05:32:58 pm »


We don’t have any experience with people having eaten no carbohydrates at all for long periods. This would probably have been an extreme an very unusual situation for our ancestors primates and anthropoids, so it’s quite possible that the sudden return to a more natural situation could be troublesome.


Why no negative reaction to fish/meat and reaction with fruits? I don’t know, but it seems that fruits is the class of food which triggers the more detox reactions. Since we know that cooked and typically Neolithic food (cereals and dairy) brings abnormal molecules into our body (intoxination), then we should admit that detoxination can occur. Otherwise there would be no hope to heal and get to a normal weight again for the sick and obese people while on the contrary experience shows that sick and obese people can regain a perfect health and weight under instinctive paleo nutrition.

Hope this helps!
Francois

Thanks Francois! But these things you mention I kinda doubt b/c: I live in Germany and as you are living in France I think you can very well follow my thoughts: wild fruit are to be found only during short periods of the year-and its almost only berries in the woods. They taste very sweet however (just for those ZC guys who claim that cultivated fruit tend to be ways sweeter...). Wild apples and pears do taste sour and also very starchy. Once I had some and I could only stomach one...Wild herbs are available during longer periods-and some of them actually taste really nice. (I used to collect lots of them  ;)). BUT: What would my anchstors have eaten during the most months? I doubt they would have collected apples and stored them somewhere for the winter & summer...Those berries: well it would take you loads to meet your energy needs and you'd send the whole day eating. And then it would be only during a short period of the year. So I kind of think they would have eaten meat mostly? As bark from the trees isn't too attractive to eat and there are almost no plant foods which are edible around in winter, I was thinking that meat must have been the staple.

Re the detox-symptoms: I tried to eat a raw vegan diet after some time having eaten cooked vegan: I had the same symptoms-so that made me think wheather its some sort of allergie? (B/c on my vegan diet I would also eat fruit of course, but not in hose massive quantities I ate when trying to transition to raw)

Thanks again for your thoughts!
Nicole

Offline Iguana

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2011, 06:08:37 pm »
Hi Nicole,

Our ancestors settled in Europe rather recently: as far as we know, they essentially populated Europe after they mastered the fire.

I told you “as wild as possible” because, as you say, really local wild fruits are not available here in winter. Nevertheless, there’s still enough choice of acceptable fruits such as persimmons, kiwis, cherimoyas, apples not too intensively cultivated and almost wild tropical fruits such as litchis, papayas, soursop, cempedaks, jackfruits, most varieties of durians, various kinds of sapotillas and so on.

Cheers
François    
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Susan

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 02:59:07 pm »
Why no negative reaction to fish/meat and reaction with fruits? I don't know, but it seems that fruits is the class of food which triggers the more detox reactions.

My experience is that meat/fish is the class of food which leads to the most detox reactions.

We don't have any experience with people having eaten no carbohydrates at all for long periods.

Even if you only eat meat you will incorporate some carbohydrates.

The human organism is well adapted to stay without or with small amounts of carbohydrates. On the other hand an overload of carbohydrates cause a lot of troubles even eaten raw. That's my observation.

I don't live anymore in tropical regions and after some years of eating 100% raw I feel much better reducing the amounts of fruits especially in winter.

We don't have to look back we have to look foreward. Even if our ancestors have eaten more carbohydrates due to the environment they lived it could NOW be better to reduce the supply of carbohydrates.

Offline rawcarni

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Re: Question for Iguana - Instincto carbs
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 04:32:18 pm »

We don't have to look back we have to look foreward. Even if our ancestors have eaten more carbohydrates due to the environment they lived it could NOW be better to reduce the supply of carbohydrates.

I have the same feeling.

 

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