Depression

[RawZi]

Enid the Christian method ur selling will it get rid of my dandruff next time I get depressed?

The use of fresh lime juice is very useful remedy for the treatment of dandruff. Take one lime, and take out its juice in a small utensil. Now you may apply this juice over your hair will help of your fore finger and middle finger. This remedy will not only help to remove dandruff out of your hair, but will also help to make your hair glowing.

[riy freeman]

Depression is not strictly psychological.

Diet plays quite an important role. As far as diet goes I would suggest not doing ZC, and make sure you are getting the essential vitamins. Avoid/limit sugar in most of its forms at costs. Stay away from processed food. (Things most people on the forum do already but anywho...)

Otherwise:

* When you feel ready, work with a physician to wean off the medications.
* Watch comedy shows and or movies and things that make you laugh everyday.
* You have to stop waiting for "your calling" in life to be revealed to you. Opportunity doesn't seek you. YOU seek it. This means that you have to set your own goal for yourself and go after it. This realization was the biggest turning point for me in the past. DO whatever it takes to accomplish that goal. Start small, then gradually work big. You will gain confidence, and with that comes hope for the future. Without hope for a better future, depression will seem never ending.

Dima, hoping for the best for you. If you feel the need to discuss anything, feel free to PM me.
Regards,
Ray

[proteus]

I have found and read all existing forum posts on the subject. I am starting a new topic to get the new/current opinions and experiences from forum members.

I have had a mild form of depression for a long time - it was a fact of daily life and I was able to be functional on day-to-day basis. The depression has gotten worse in the last few months, to the point where I am beginning to consider taking medication for it. Being "out of it" makes it very difficult to stay on a diet, avoid stress, make lifestyle changes, etc. I would like to hear the suggestions and/or experiences of those who were able to alleviate depressive symptoms through RPD. Thanks.

depression is a result of rationality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias

depression can essentially be described as a "failure to be stupid"

as far as i can tell an average person devotes about 90% of his mental energy to deliberately turning himself into an idiot.  my parents do this.  religious people do this.  most people do this.

i would do it too if there was a guarantee that:

1 - i could successfully turn myself into a moron and STAY that way forever
2 - that i could actually survive it

but i don't think i could manage either of the two. 

thanks to the information revolution we now know more than we were ever supposed to.  our minds cannot handle what we know.  we're fucked.

[riy freeman]

I don't agree that its a failure to have an optimal bias.

For example, a person depressed can be thinking that people around them are focusing on their weakness or "defect" (whatever that may be) when in reality, no one is doing that. People are too busy with their own lives. So in this case, the depressed person is viewing the world with the distorted reality, not the other way around.

[proteus]

real depression is realizing that the only difference between yourself and a cockroach is that a cockroach is lucky enough to be oblivious to the reality of the world, and the only thing you ultimately have to look forward to is death.

usually we manage to be distracted from this truth by day-to-day bullshit like video games, work, sex, food, exercise etc, but sometimes we have too much time on our hands and we begin to think and understand things ...

the problem is that once you understand and become depressed then you don't want to do anything and then you have even more time to think !  so it is a vicious circle ...

the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the depressed get more depressed ...

when all else fails people have kids as the ultimate distraction from reality, thus passing on the disease to the next generation.  and that's how the world turns.

[sabertooth]

I fought against the specters of human ignorance most of my childhood, and yes its very depressing to be possessed by certain knowledge so young, especially if one is not shown how to use it constructively . I grew up without a purpose and much of my potential was squandered in trivial pursuits.

 But I still blame a serotonin issue, caused by toxicity and malnutrition as the primary cause of my personal depression, although my failure to be stupid may have made the imbalance worse. The distortion of reality comes when a biological imbalance is not reckoned with in a rational way and then the brain is allowed to blindly guess what is wrong through its own delusions, and such a mind will focus on locating the defects within the self, when in reality there is something biological at work, outside of the conscious mind that can never be dealt with by developing a neurotic rational to explain ones perceived failings.

[CHK91]

Sometimes I wish that someone would beat my head with a baseball bat until I can't critically think anymore. Probably the number one thing that negatively affects my health is news websites. I wish I can be ignorant of it all, yet I still keep coming back to them. Bad emotional health can lead to or accelerate many physical conditions.

Music, video games, and fantasy media are my shelter. It helps me get away from the real world temporarily so my sanity can remain intact. 

[Ninacma]

A significant mood-booster has been lying on the sunbed during winter. I usually get winter depression, but not any more. Nowadays you can probably aquire Vitamin D from the sun, lying outside between 10 AM-2PM. Also, following a paleo diet, I have less mood swings and a slight boost in baseline mood, but I suppose you aren't wolfing down pastries if you hang around this forum anyway.

You could try extinguishing lights at six PM. This helps normalize the circadian rhythm, which is extremely important for mental wellbeing, as much as anything that has been mentioned above. I also recommend this from personal experience.

But as the second poster reported, the psychological factors shouldn't be underplayed. My happiest time was as a high-achieving semi-anorectic calorie-restriction eater. You should definitely lay down the groundwork for your own wellbeing, but you can't delay take-off indefinitely and spend all your time preparing (for happiness). Conventional stuff like challenging yourself, being true to yourself, working hard, meaningful relationships are most important. If you do these things its def. possible to be happy even on a SAD diet, but maybe not as easy? I don't know.

[proteus]

Sometimes I wish that someone would beat my head with a baseball bat until I can't critically think anymore. Probably the number one thing that negatively affects my health is news websites. I wish I can be ignorant of it all, yet I still keep coming back to them.

oh you're only in the early stage - don't worry it will get worse.  the news is nothing.  realizing that it always was this way is not the worst either.  even realizing that there is no solution is not the worst.  the worst is realizing that you are part of the problem. 

wait till you find yourself literally unable to physically move - then you will know what depression is.  think full-body erectile dysfunction due to absolute zero motivation.  just being asleep in a nightmare with your eyes open.

[HIT_it_RAW]

oh you're only in the early stage - don't worry it will get worse.  the news is nothing.  realizing that it always was this way is not the worst either.  even realizing that there is no solution is not the worst.  the worst is realizing that you are part of the problem. 

wait till you find yourself literally unable to physically move - then you will know what depression is.  think full-body erectile dysfunction due to absolute zero motivation.  just being asleep in a nightmare with your eyes open.

That will cheer him up for sure....

I've dealt with depression. For me the realisation that I was depressed was also the cure. This probably sounds crazy but let me try to explain.

I felt very bad for some time, lack of motivation, energy etc. Suddenly I realised I was depressed. I don’t believe in therapy or that sort of stuff I think all that does is change/reshape the outer layer but does not attack the core problem. Eventually people undergoing therapy change the act they perform towards the rest of the world because it is easier to display social accepted behaviour. When long enough exposed to a certain social structure people change their behaviour to match, it’s in our nature. Also I am a convinced atheist. I know there is no-one watching me, judging. It’s just this live here and now, make the most of it.

I realised that I was depressed because somehow my subconscious mind thought it would be beneficial. I think it’s our instinctual heritage to display depression to get empathy. However in our current insane society this primal mechanism doesn’t dork anymore. People are to occupied with there job etc. In primal small group societies a member displaying depression would get more attention because it was vital to the group that all members were performing maximal, all members had specific functions within the group and no one could be missed.  Ones I realised that it was just a survival mechanism to ask for help, and knew that I wasn’t gonna get that help, I wasn’t depressed anymore. I knew that this was the lowest point and it could only get better. Climb that mountain, reach the top don’t wait for others to carry you there it isn’t going to happening.

[CHK91]

That will cheer him up for sure....

I've dealt with depression. For me the realisation that I was depressed was also the cure. This probably sounds crazy but let me try to explain.

I felt very bad for some time, lack of motivation, energy etc. Suddenly I realised I was depressed. I don’t believe in therapy or that sort of stuff I think all that does is change/reshape the outer layer but does not attack the core problem. Eventually people undergoing therapy change the act they perform towards the rest of the world because it is easier to display social accepted behaviour. When long enough exposed to a certain social structure people change their behaviour to match, it’s in our nature. Also I am a convinced atheist. I know there is no-one watching me, judging. It’s just this live here and now, make the most of it.

I realised that I was depressed because somehow my subconscious mind thought it would be beneficial. I think it’s our instinctual heritage to display depression to get empathy. However in our current insane society this primal mechanism doesn’t dork anymore. People are to occupied with there job etc. In primal small group societies a member displaying depression would get more attention because it was vital to the group that all members were performing maximal, all members had specific functions within the group and no one could be missed.  Ones I realised that it was just a survival mechanism to ask for help, and knew that I wasn’t gonna get that help, I wasn’t depressed anymore. I knew that this was the lowest point and it could only get better. Climb that mountain, reach the top don’t wait for others to carry you there it isn’t going to happening.

Thank you. Much more encouraging. 

[babetteq]

So, I see a bunch of people saying "don't go zc for depression" except that's what has cured my depression. I say cured because it's almost 2 years and it hasn't come back. This depression started when I was about 8-9, and carved out my life like a river carves a canyon. I spent most of my teen and young adulthood being suicidal and when it got too bad I'd have psychotic episodes. So, I kept it medicated. Within about 3 months of going very very low carb-zc I was off antidepressants and am still a fully functioning, well respected professional.

When I worked in a supportive residential building for people with a)out of control addictions, b)out of control mental health issues, and c) had to have been homeless for at least a year (this was the criteria for getting in) we had high crisis in the building. All th time. Fights, psychotic breaks, overdoses, suicidality....

Then we finally got the funding for a kitchen. This kitchen served crap food once a day. Overcooked pasta with thin tomato and ground beef sauce, with anemic salad & jello. 911 calls went down to almost 0. Maybe once or twice in a month instead of 3-5 times a week. The drop happened in the first week of serving the food.

I wonder what would have happened to the residents if we could be serving quality, paleo food, lightly cooked or raw (they may not have complied with raw...). The difference was SO significant that it is almost impossible not so say food & mental health are inextricably linked. Between my experience and then those in this resident (other supportive housing agencies have replicated this with similar results now), I'm a believer man.

[Busgrw]

So, I see a bunch of people saying "don't go zc for depression" except that's what has cured my depression. I say cured because it's almost 2 years and it hasn't come back. This depression started when I was about 8-9, and carved out my life like a river carves a canyon. I spent most of my teen and young adulthood being suicidal and when it got too bad I'd have psychotic episodes. So, I kept it medicated. Within about 3 months of going very very low carb-zc I was off antidepressants and am still a fully functioning, well respected professional.

Hi Babetteq,

Congratulations on being cured. Any chance you could share some info on what your diet is like on low carb-zc?

Thanks

 

[BakeyMan]

real depression is realizing that the only difference between yourself and a cockroach is that a cockroach is lucky enough to be oblivious to the reality of the world, and the only thing you ultimately have to look forward to is death.

usually we manage to be distracted from this truth by day-to-day bullshit like video games, work, sex, food, exercise etc, but sometimes we have too much time on our hands and we begin to think and understand things ...

the problem is that once you understand and become depressed then you don't want to do anything and then you have even more time to think !  so it is a vicious circle ...

the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the depressed get more depressed ...

when all else fails people have kids as the ultimate distraction from reality, thus passing on the disease to the next generation.  and that's how the world turns.

to me, you understand even less when you focus on death and "reality".  Looking at cave paintings (and the few remaining modern HG populations) you get a sense that our ancestors didn't fear death like we do, not because they were ignorant or anything, but because they lived in the moment, and death was all around them. Now that we just sit on are ass all day, we're isolated from nature, we forget that birth and life in the moment are something to appreciate also.  when you really ponder about death without being caught in the fear of non-existance, you realize its not that big of a deal.  your just not around anymore, so what?  why not just enjoy the time you do have? I think the "truth" your speaking of is a distraction as well.

[BakeyMan]

The distortion of reality comes when a biological imbalance is not reckoned with in a rational way and then the brain is allowed to blindly guess what is wrong through its own delusions, and such a mind will focus on locating the defects within the self, when in reality there is something biological at work, outside of the conscious mind that can never be dealt with by developing a neurotic rational to explain ones perceived failings.

This makes sense.  I never thought about depression this way.

[wodgina]

That will cheer him up for sure....

I've dealt with depression. For me the realisation that I was depressed was also the cure. This probably sounds crazy but let me try to explain.

I felt very bad for some time, lack of motivation, energy etc. Suddenly I realised I was depressed. I don’t believe in therapy or that sort of stuff I think all that does is change/reshape the outer layer but does not attack the core problem. Eventually people undergoing therapy change the act they perform towards the rest of the world because it is easier to display social accepted behaviour. When long enough exposed to a certain social structure people change their behaviour to match, it’s in our nature. Also I am a convinced atheist. I know there is no-one watching me, judging. It’s just this live here and now, make the most of it.

I realised that I was depressed because somehow my subconscious mind thought it would be beneficial. I think it’s our instinctual heritage to display depression to get empathy. However in our current insane society this primal mechanism doesn’t dork anymore. People are to occupied with there job etc. In primal small group societies a member displaying depression would get more attention because it was vital to the group that all members were performing maximal, all members had specific functions within the group and no one could be missed.  Ones I realised that it was just a survival mechanism to ask for help, and knew that I wasn’t gonna get that help, I wasn’t depressed anymore. I knew that this was the lowest point and it could only get better. Climb that mountain, reach the top don’t wait for others to carry you there it isn’t going to happening.

Great post. I agree with the last part completely.

Dork on!

[TylerDurden]

Me too. Applies to things like anxiety etc. as well.

[sabertooth]

Not only would people in primal societies who show distress and depression be given extra loving care, and empathy from others, but they would be less likely to let negative emotions build up over long periods of time because the issues would be dealt with in the present moments of communal living. When people genuinely care for your well being you can tell and just growing up and living your entire life in a place were you feel cared for would do a lot to prevent depression. 

People in the modern world are often raised in broken homes and live in working class prison communities. Many don't get the antidepressant benefits of a caring community that makes one feel needed. Their life's troubles get no special attention. Often the others in these modern communities do notice that something isn't right, but they have often been neglected emotionally themselves and are not capable of providing the emotional support that is needed.

The Lord knows I felt very isolated and alone as a teenager living with only my mother step dad and brother and sister. There just wasn't any compassion to be gotten, no sympathy for my personal struggles.
Kids at school were cruel animals that would taunt you if you showed emotional weakness and the teachers were so overburdened with keeping up appearances that they could not provide the personal attention that young people need to feel accepted. I felt at times like my existence had no real value among others around me and no matter what I did it wouldn't matter much.

So I had to put on a front get over the fact that modern society can totally suck. Such people with negative feelings seem to be a burden to a modern society that has not the time, place, or need for emotion..  

 

[babetteq]

Congratulations on being cured. Any chance you could share some info on what your diet is like on low carb-zc?

My rule is animal and seasoning. So I do mainly beef, game (deer, elk, moose, umm had cougar once or twice) some pork (because I"m not made of money) and less and less chicken as time goes on. I don't find I want it and when I eat it anyway it's unpleasant to me. I can't really describe it. I have an aversion to it. Seeing as there is no law about whether I can eat chicken or not, I choose not. I use whipping cream for yummy sauces, not raw, but often over raw things. I try to eat liver once a month. I hate it. I eat heart and kidney. It's pretty simple. I'm not making fancy ..I don't know, ... marsupial kiev with raw wild honey & cheese fermented in tibet before the war or anything. The offal I try to get into me once a month. I figure that's fine. It seems to be.

The change in mood happened very quickly. It was 3 months  before I decided to try going off the meds because going off of them was scary for me. But when I did, by that time I felt SO much better I was pretty confident. If it was just placebo I would have cycled down by now. I know my depression.

In a conversation on another board we're talking about whether a lot of the mood, behavioural symptoms we see in the courts, downtowns and schools are more about deficiencies than kids not being spanked early enough or something.

Sabertooth, I too believe that we are not a kind culture to the people around us, or often our children and that plays a part in our depression. I think it can't be ignored though that women while they're pregnant (and before) and men when they're in their fertile years have been exposed to lots of horrid toxic chemicals that we're only guessing at the results from. I remember reading a study on girls born to moms who smoke cigarettes. A huge number of them (70+%?) developed depression at puberty. Nicotine fixed that depression. There is a piece of depression I think that is not all psychological.

Maybe one day we'll learn to be nicer to each other and kinder to the world we live in.

[proteus]

the way i learned to deal with depression is by accepting:

1 - the utter pointlessness of my life, and therefore the fact that any problems i may have ahead of me in my life ultimately don't matter, because in the long run it's still just a matter of getting old and dying.

2 - the fact that i am nothing but a piece of shit, always was and always will be and i never deserved a life any better than the shit i got in the first place.

our ultimate fear is that of truth.  once you accept the truth you have nothing left to fear.

we are born in total ignorance.  in the first years of our life our parents stuff us with lies and pink illusions and we proceed with our own false hopes and dreams.  then gradually as we come into contact with reality it begins to chip away at our castles in the sky and every time another dream of ours gets shot down we find ourselves on our knees crying ...

that is until you realize it was ALL just a dream - it was never real - there is nothing to lose because it was never there to begin with

[Techydude]

1) Writing in a journal
2) Screaming in a secluded place, feels good
3) Lots of sun

These help me, i'm clinically depressed.

[riy freeman]

proteus u sound depressed

[goodsamaritan]

the way i learned to deal with depression is by accepting:

1 - the utter pointlessness of my life, and therefore the fact that any problems i may have ahead of me in my life ultimately don't matter, because in the long run it's still just a matter of getting old and dying.

2 - the fact that i am nothing but a piece of shit, always was and always will be and i never deserved a life any better than the shit i got in the first place.

our ultimate fear is that of truth.  once you accept the truth you have nothing left to fear.

we are born in total ignorance.  in the first years of our life our parents stuff us with lies and pink illusions and we proceed with our own false hopes and dreams.  then gradually as we come into contact with reality it begins to chip away at our castles in the sky and every time another dream of ours gets shot down we find ourselves on our knees crying ...

that is until you realize it was ALL just a dream - it was never real - there is nothing to lose because it was never there to begin with

My style is positive thinking.

The purpose of life is to make more life.
So I live in that direction, heal people, make new life, raise those cute little lives.
And since I do not believe in an immortal soul, my immortality is through my descendants.
Yes, sex has a purpose, to make more life.

[eveheart]

I don't know Proteus personally, but (language being part of the false illusion) I took a different read of what he wrote.

1 - the utter pointlessness of my life, and therefore the fact that any problems i may have ahead of me in my life ultimately don't matter, because in the long run it's still just a matter of getting old and dying.

"Don't sweat the small stuff; 100 years from now, it won't matter, anyway."

2 - the fact that i am nothing but a piece of shit, always was and always will be and i never deserved a life any better than the shit i got in the first place.

"Life is not fair, but it is just." Do not regret the shit; learn from it.

our ultimate fear is that of truth.  once you accept the truth you have nothing left to fear.

"Know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

we are born in total ignorance.  in the first years of our life our parents stuff us with lies and pink illusions and we proceed with our own false hopes and dreams.  then gradually as we come into contact with reality it begins to chip away at our castles in the sky and every time another dream of ours gets shot down we find ourselves on our knees crying ...

that is until you realize it was ALL just a dream - it was never real - there is nothing to lose because it was never there to begin with

The key word is until... once one sees illusion as illusion, suffering is transcended.

JMHO

[Sully]

Great post. I agree with the last part completely.

Dork on!

Agreed, I like that last part as well.