No pain no gain?? To detox or not to detox...

[laterade]

Some of us experience symptoms of detox that would motivate many people to ditch these ideas we share immediately...
What keeps you going on with this type of lifestyle?

[TylerDurden]

Well, rawpalaeos usually only experience detoxes when they first transition, and then occasionally as they slowly recover their health. Such detoxes are usually minor and only temporary, so are not a concern. When a detox is very strong or goes on and on, then one can be sure that it is not a detox but a food-allergy/food-intolerance to some raw food, but that can be solved by elimination diets.


When I first started rawpalaeo, the worst I got was that in the first 2-3 days I had constant diarrhea forcing me to visit the toilet at least every half hour. Fortunately, it was on a long weekend. By contrast, I got massive, very painful stomach-aches from eating any cooked animal foods, so a bit of diarrhea was hardly a disincentive to go rawpalaeo.

[rawcarni]

I am really not sure if I believe in this detox-stuff any longer after my recent fruit-desaster (after soem time ZC I reintroduced fruits and got very strong muscle stiffness, cramps, and joint pain). I think it is some type of allergy. My reason for this thinking: I had been eating more than 3years vegan before I started paleo diet. After 2 weeks or so I started ZC. Now if the fruit-desaster happened due to the fact that my body just wasn't used anymore to eating plants (as someone suggested) then why didn't I get any negative reactions eating fish & meat for the first time after 3 years without any animal foods at all? The only thing that happened with eating meat was that it felt a bit heavy in my stomach. But my body didn't react in any negative way. Instead: the more meat I ate the better I felt. so I think that the healthier your diet becomes the more sensitive you react to food that your body obviously doesn't like.
just my 2cents
Nicole

[TylerDurden]

There are differences. I think it takes longer to "un-adapt to raw meats after years on raw vegan diets" than it is to "unadapt to raw plant foods after some time on an RZC diet".  This, I suspect, is merely because an RZC diet is closer to what we normally ate in palaeo times than the raw vegan diet. To determine the difference between allergy and detox or ill-adaptation, it would be a good idea to try eating lots of raw plant foods for at least a month. After all, once one adapts to VLC for long periods (RZC for a much shorter time), the bacteria which help predigest carbs die out, so it takes time to fill the gut with the necessary bacteria. I had to do that when I quit long-term VLC several years ago, and while it gave me some discomfort at first before I got sufficient bacteria of the right sort, I found in the end that I had adapted perfectly to raw fruits/veg.

[Löwenherz]

Geoff, what have been the reasons for you to quit long-term VLC?

[rawcarni]

There are differences. I think it takes longer to "un-adapt to raw meats after years on raw vegan diets" than it is to "unadapt to raw plant foods after some time on an RZC diet".  This, I suspect, is merely because an RZC diet is closer to what we normally ate in palaeo times than the raw vegan diet. To determine the difference between allergy and detox or ill-adaptation, it would be a good idea to try eating lots of raw plant foods for at least a month. After all, once one adapts to VLC for long periods (RZC for a much shorter time), the bacteria which help predigest carbs die out, so it takes time to fill the gut with the necessary bacteria. I had to do that when I quit long-term VLC several years ago, and while it gave me some discomfort at first before I got sufficient bacteria of the right sort, I found in the end that I had adapted perfectly to raw fruits/veg.

So since I am still thinking about what to do: Would you suggest then that I should try to keep on eating fruits for some time now, despite they give me terrible aches?

[TylerDurden]

So since I am still thinking about what to do: Would you suggest then that I should try to keep on eating fruits for some time now, despite they give me terrible aches?

Well, if you do better on RZC, stick with RZC. If, on the other hand, it's worse on RZC, then you should try eating raw fruits for a month or so to see if things improve.

[TylerDurden]

Geoff, what have been the reasons for you to quit long-term VLC?

Well, I was  pretty much fine on long-term raw VLC(as opposed to RZC). The only catch was that my stamina re sports was greatly reduced on such a diet and I found that I slowly developed digestive issues with raw carbs, due to lack of the right bacteria. Since I had previously found it much easier to eat raw fruits than raw meats when in the company of cooked-foodists, I found it better to include some raw fruits, plus I wanted to be able to go mountain-hiking etc. without having to rest all the time.

[goodsamaritan]

Some of us experience symptoms of detox that would motivate many people to ditch these ideas we share immediately...
What keeps you going on with this type of lifestyle?

I did all my detoxes first, then raw vegan, then fasting, then raw fruitarian, then raw paleo diet.
None of it was intentional.
I just bumbled and stumbled along.

[goodsamaritan]

So since I am still thinking about what to do: Would you suggest then that I should try to keep on eating fruits for some time now, despite they give me terrible aches?

Try taking probiotics, a couple of different brands. Overdose on them.  Overdosing is "therapeutic dosing".

Then try eating fruits and other more dangerous stuff.

[rawcarni]

Try taking probiotics, a couple of different brands. Overdose on them.  Overdosing is "therapeutic dosing".

Then try eating fruits and other more dangerous stuff.

Can you be a more specific on probiotics? I am not sure if I ever saw such stuff in German drug stores / shops.
Fruit is apparently the most dangerous stuff for me as I didn't get such reactions from greens and carrots. (Or what do you mean by more dangerous stuff?)

[andvanwyk]

I did all my detoxes first, then raw vegan, then fasting, then raw fruitarian, then raw paleo diet.
None of it was intentional.
I just bumbled and stumbled along.

Hey Geoff. How much fruit do you eat per day on average?

[TylerDurden]

Hey Geoff. How much fruit do you eat per day on average?

  Err, GS is called "Edwin" by his first name. "TylerDurden"(ie "me") is called "Geoff" by first name. I usually eat something like 3-4 raw fruits like 3-4 aw oranges per day on average. But this means nothing since I vary this amount all the time, due to circumstances, and have some days in which I eat no raw carbs at all.

[Löwenherz]

  Err, GS is called "Edwin" by his first name. "TylerDurden"(ie "me") is called "Geoff" by first name. I usually eat something like 3-4 raw fruits like 3-4 aw oranges per day on average. But this means nothing since I vary this amount all the time, due to circumstances, and have some days in which I eat no raw carbs at all.

Hi Tyler,

do you eat any other plant food beside fruit? E.g. salads, Vegetables..?

Aajonus believes that raw vegetables/salads hamper meat digestion. Would you agree with this statement?
He also thinks that fruits are detrimental to digestion of animal food. But my observation is that small amounts of fruits improve meat digestion in my system. Although, I had to learn it the hard way that high amounts of fruit are extremely damaging in the long run (skin, joints etc.). In the case of salads/vegetables I'm not sure about the effects.

Löwenherz

[TylerDurden]

Hi Tyler,

do you eat any other plant food beside fruit? E.g. salads, Vegetables..?

Aajonus believes that raw vegetables/salads hamper meat digestion. Would you agree with this statement?
He also thinks that fruits are detrimental to digestion of animal food. But my observation is that small amounts of fruits improve meat digestion in my system. Although, I had to learn it the hard way that high amounts of fruit are extremely damaging in the long run (skin, joints etc.). In the case of salads/vegetables I'm not sure about the effects.

Löwenherz

I eat small amounts of raw vegetables only rarely - specific vegetables like raw radishes or raw carrots, most veg I avoid due to antinutrient concerns. As for mixing plant foods with animal foods, they seem to require different digestive juices etc., so shouldn't really be mixed, I would think.