Intactivism

[Techydude]

With the awareness of the wrongs of circumcision, genital mutilation is regarded as wrong through the works of organizations like Intact America, norm, etc , and a simple google search. Am I the only Raw intactivist? hope not!

[TylerDurden]

No, I previously raised the subject a couple of times, partly to illustrate the point that many things done by hunter-gathers(and modern society) are neither healthy nor necessary.

[sabertooth]

I think I recall reading some  interesting post about how many people now are viewing circumcision as genital mutilation, I refused to let my son be circumcised.

Not only is it not necessary, but it cuts off some of the most sensual of nerve tissue, which prevents the victim from ever experiencing the full intensity of the sexual experience. Perhaps it even curbs some aspects of the sexual spirit by leaving the part of the brain that is connected to those severed nerves unused and atrophied.  

[Techydude]

There is hope as an organization called Foregen is raising money through supporter donations to use regenerative medicine to regenerate everything lose to circumcision.

[TylerDurden]

What is encouraging is that there is now an organisation called "Jews against circumcision", so the old notion that circumcision is acceptable because at least 2 of the world's religions practise it is now suspect.

[Techydude]

Yep, there should be no reason to submit an adult much than an infant to such a painful, traumatic, and permanently changing experience physically and mentally and with all the sensitivity loss. America and Isreal are the only circumcising countries. They need to get in line with the rest of the world.

[laterade]

actup90 is intact 
After reading WHO's bullsh*t explaining that circumcision prevents STDs and UTI, I thanked my mother for not having it done.
The pressure doctors put on people to do stupid harmful things makes me sick.

[kurite]

What is encouraging is that there is now an organisation called "Jews against circumcision", so the old notion that circumcision is acceptable because at least 2 of the world's religions practise it is now suspect.

I was wondering what I was going to do when I had kids. At least I know now its somewhat okay for Jewish people to not get it done.

[laterade]

I was wondering what I was going to do when I had kids. At least I know now its somewhat okay for Jewish people to not get it done.

Somewhat ok...? to not cut your child's pee pee. Tradition is only great when it does not conflict with common sense.
What could your family reasonably say to you in favor of slicing penis?

[kurite]

Somewhat ok...? to not cut your child's pee pee. Tradition is only great when it does not conflict with common sense.
What could your family reasonably say to you in favor of slicing penis?

You don't need a reason other than religion when your family is very religious. It would look like a complete betrayal for my family. I'm hoping by the time I have kids my parents won't care as much. But circumcision is a huge part of Judaism. I realise its gross and is a really stupid thing but a lot of what religion does is stupid. Don't get me wrong I believe in a higher power but I don't believe this higher power would want me to put my life to a halt to pray for 4 hours.

[Techydude]

You don't need a reason other than religion when your family is very religious. It would look like a complete betrayal for my family. I'm hoping by the time I have kids my parents won't care as much. But circumcision is a huge part of Judaism. I realise its gross and is a really stupid thing but a lot of what religion does is stupid. Don't get me wrong I believe in a higher power but I don't believe this higher power would want me to put my life to a halt to pray for 4 hours.

Well you need to let your family know of the evils and injustices of circumcisions. There is the brit shalom which doesnt require cutting as well as i've heard Jewish ancestors frowned upon circumcision. Show them a circumcision happening on a baby (there are videos) and show them how terrifying , painful, and barbaric it is. And tell them to lie down on the table and have some cut part of their genitals off. If they sort of excommunicate you then they were no family to begin with. Doing nothing and letting an evil continue is just as bad as supporting it or carrying it out because you're doing nothing to stop it.  You are lucky to see the truth, show others the truth of this barbaric ritual.'

And I confronted my parents and they confronted me aggressively with no remorse. I hate my parents for what they did to me and that is something a parent wouldnt want from their children. Save yourself the grief by leaving your children whole so they dont have to confront you with their feelings of grief or anger. It is sexism and if it were a girl the same thing wouldnt have been done. Female genital mutilation and male genital mutilation are the same. You would not mutilate your body for anyone and if a religion told me to cut my hand off for the sake of practicing it I would question the sanity of the practice. Jews against circumcision is a smart site.


You can read the facts at circumstitions, intact america, norm, nocirc, etc google them.

To a fellow paleoer what aint broke doesnt need to be fixed and for millions of years our ancestors havent had needed such a process. Its evolutionary impossible for one specific gender of a species to need a surgical removal of something they were born with. And they did just fine before this barbaric invention. Common sense + education = a powerful thing.

[laterade]

You don't need a reason other than religion when your family is very religious. It would look like a complete betrayal for my family. I'm hoping by the time I have kids my parents won't care as much. But circumcision is a huge part of Judaism. I realise its gross and is a really stupid thing but a lot of what religion does is stupid. Don't get me wrong I believe in a higher power but I don't believe this higher power would want me to put my life to a halt to pray for 4 hours.

My opinion... If my parents said "cut your child's genitals or you are a trader". I would tell them to shove their s&m club right up their ass.
Please show them "jews against circumcision" if you ever face this issue. This may give you a firm ground to base a stance, and possibly help them feel comfortable in leaving barbaric traditions in the past.

[RawZi]

Yep, there should be no reason to submit an adult much than an infant to such a painful, traumatic, and permanently changing experience physically and mentally and with all the sensitivity loss. America and Isreal are the only circumcising countries. They need to get in line with the rest of the world.

    I did a very hot thread on GI2MR on this.  Members from countries like Bengladesh, Philipines & I forget the other one.  It started with an M and is in Africa.  It wasn't Mozambique, Morrocco or Madasgascar, it's another country.  Anyway, they said all boys are circumcized.  Correct me if those countries are not the ones. This was three years ago, and I haven't talked about it lately.

    I just heard everyone out who was on either and/or both side of the issue.  I wound up making close friends on both sides.  That was one thing I definitely had no problem with there, as for any member.  I just listened, as people talk better that way.  I have read a lot about intactivism for years before that, and Kellogg vegetarian god-father of US circumcision and some about religious, sexist and various cultural circumcision practices including non-physical circumcisions and various female cutting, even positive feeling about all the various circumcisions. I had also viewed interviews from several continents and also from various peoples about their own genital cultural cutting experiences on themselves and others.  There is every kind of view in video.

    Oh, and many youtube videos circumcising babies are very gruesome!

[RawZi]

    I sidetracked myself.  I did argue on GI2MR that circumcision is not raw, if you want to live everything in your lifestyle raw.  Circumcision causes scarring.  The scarring is similar to burned skin.  How raw is that?  

    As for paleo, I agree with things I've seen in forum, some parts from Taylor and parts from others.  Many paleo people may not have circumcised.  Some may have, for various tribal security reasons.  We as raw paleo people of today may copy any of that, or improve upon that if we think we should by stopping circumcision (or starting it???), or if we feel we should change, or we could keep some of the ways without any thought of changes.  I'm not an absolutist.  

    I can't perform a circumcision. I do think I'm overstepping some bounds also by going to some other thinking or living individual and telling them what to do.

    Hey, I'm even friends with transgender people (is that what they call it?), people who change their gender surgically and/or by hormone treatment.  I do not take hormones nor have I nor would I ever surgically alter my gender.  I'm 100% female.  I did take synthetic thyroid hormone a lot shorter time than the doctors planned.  I'll stay the gender I was born if I have anything to say about it.  I understand and respect many ways of life though.

[RawZi]

    The medical doctors don't just take foreskins at birth for the drug companies to sell for non-paleo non-raw products, but they severe the placentas early according to some.  Other people never actually cut the umbilical cord the babies are born with, they let it go the way of nature as in this vid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW9oiBiV0JY
I'm not sure how paleo it was or could be, as the baby would have to be in a very secure place from other animals for days without being moved. 

    Episiotomies are another example of how the surgeons can't get enough cutting enjoyment and cut as many as they can get into their power in some cases.  Moms in shock and pain from episiotomy are warned to have their neonate circumcised immediately.  Hopefully some inner voice will tell them to say no to unnecessary cutting, and get their due respect, or the father or other support system will think out what's best for the child/patient, including entirely possibly leaving him(/her) be.

    In Muslim countries it is done at "some point" in time (8mos-13yrs), rather than during newborn time.   

[Ioanna]

is anyone here not circumcised?

or older than infant at time of circumcision (GS?) that can describe differences before/after?

[laterade]

is anyone here not circumcised?

<--- Connor is intact

[TylerDurden]

is anyone here not circumcised?

or older than infant at time of circumcision (GS?) that can describe differences before/after?

You mean in this thread? I'm not, but then most Europeans aren't either.

[Techydude]

<--- Connor is intact

omg are you Connor from Yahoo Answers :O? And i'm unfortunately cut, but most guys can understand some of what they lost through foreskin restoration and regaining more and more sensitivty they lost to genital cutting.

I wish I were intact and this was never done to me. Can't wait for foregen to make me intact once more.

20% of the world still genitally cuts being Isreal and the US and 80% of the world leave their children intact and whole.

Basically to tell the difference between cut and intact:
@Ioanna:

"Circumcision is sexually diminishing:

 
Hand test: Run your fingertip down the back of your hand. Now run it down the palm of your hand. Clear difference. Notice how even after you stopped touching the palm of your hand you could still feel the line you drew with your fingertip. Your palm has Meissner’s corpsucles (touch-sensitive nerves) that the back of your hand does not. The male foreskin has 20-70,000 of these. “Just a flap of skin”? Obviously not. http://www.wholebabyrevolution.com/The-Lost-List.html "

[Ioanna]

yeah, i remember you posted that in another thread, and that's a lot!.. so do men who are circumcised want/need rougher sex (generally speaking) or circumcision has nothing to do with rough sex?

[Techydude]

yeah, i remember you posted that in another thread, and that's a lot!.. so do men who are circumcised want/need rougher sex (generally speaking) or circumcision has nothing t
o do with rough sex?

Well being cut myself, I dont have a foreskin to manipulate and I feel less so for sex I have to use lube and you know work a bit harder to get off. But most people don't realize there's a huge difference between ejaculation and orgasm. I hope to get my sexual function back after foreskin restoration and get what intact guys experience, orgasms, some mutiple orgasms like women experience cause they have all the sensation and are intact too, unless they're victims of FGM (* 97% of Egyptian women today are circumcised, FGM still practiced in Egypt, FGM previously practiced in Africa, worldwide, US and FGM legal in US until 1997 google Patricia Robinette or youtube Patricia Robinette).



Basically being intact or not has an effect on women, cause a lot of the women I know who are intactivists say that until their husbands started restoring, they had painful sex you know cause of lack of the foreskin and gliding action and had to use a lot of lube and the dryness was blamed on them, but because we dont have a foreskin and the glans is keratinized and dry from circ, we can't scoop up the natural secretions in the vagina until foreskin restoration or being intact making sex with cut guys painful. Most women say intact sex is better, you can read up on that here Sex as Nature Inteded site =): http://www.sexasnatureintendedit.com/



Genital cutting has a profound effect on men and women. If a guy had sex with a circumcised woman you'd probably notice some differences and dryness too cause if a circumcised woman was a victim of labiaplasty to remove the labia, the vagina would be exposed to air and dry out and make an increase in lack of female sensation in sex and dryness just as male genital cutting causes men dryness and a loss of sensation. It really blew my mind when I first found out and was a lot to accept but I stepped out of denial and did and am fighting to end this practice and regain sensation through foreskin restoration and become intact once more through foreskin regeneration and undo all the trauma from this mutilation and focus my life on health and healing

If you wanna find out more about genital cutting of males and females if you're curious: www.circumstitions.com www.thewholenetwork.org www.norm.org www.nocirc.org

[Ioanna]

hmmmmm... my relationships have mostly been with europeans, and i always thought that was a cultural thing i was attracted to, but now i think it may have something to do with my perception of the intimacy. 

[Techydude]

hmmmmm... my relationships have mostly been with europeans, and i always thought that was a cultural thing i was attracted too, but now i think it may have something to do with my perception of the intimacy.  

Haha bet you had a good time . We all do, I just wish I could experience the pleasure that nature gave me but was taken away. That's why im an intactivist fighting to end this practice and fighting for the genital integrity of all males and females to keep them whole and intact as nature and evolution made it to be.



Fun fact: Did you know many mammals have foreskins? If evolution found it unnecessary we would've evolved out of foreskins! Genital cutting of males and females is an insult to evolution paloers! If I was meant to have a prepuce, labia, foreskin, etc i'd be born with one, oh wait I was but it was taken away.

[Brother]

is anyone here not circumcised?

I'm not. I am married into a muslim family. I would never allow mutilation of my children and whenever the subject come up I just tell them to show me where in the Quran such a practice is ordered. Then they start verse mining and come up with "You shall be like Abraham he was an oustanding example". To which I answer that in the Quran I can learn about many things Abraham did that indeed do portray him as the archetypical and likeable 'fuck the man' rebel all the 'messengers' appear to be. But nowhere did I see anything about him mutilating his penis. Then they say ;"but according to the Bible!..." at which point I stop them and say that normally they insist that the Bible is full of errors and that's why the Quran was send to correct it. Then they say, "yes, but there are still things in the Bible that are true, they (christians) just changed some of it to fit their needs". Then I say, but since circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran, which is meant to supercede the Bible, how do they know that the information about circumcission in the bible was not part of what the christians and jews changed?.

At this point I am either kalled a "kaffir" (disbeliever) or told that I dont know arabic well enough to have an opinion. The more clever ones slither back to the starting point on how the practice itself proves its validity. Anyone going near a child of mine with a knife will find it lodged into their forehead and i don't care what our relations are.

[laterade]

omg are you Connor from Yahoo Answers :O?

I was on there forever ago, you would have to cite a specific Connorism.

At this point I am either kalled a "kafir" (disbeliever) or told that I dont know arabic well enough to have an opinion. The more clever ones slither back to the starting point on how the practice itself proves its validity. Anyone going near a child of mine with a knife will find it lodged into their forehead and i dont care what our relations are.

You tell those MFers.
I don't need to speak arabic to make a decision to cut my child's pee pee or not. I would rather burn in hell.