Author Topic: Raw Yam?  (Read 30909 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline technosmith

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 176
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Raw Yam?
« on: February 11, 2011, 04:07:28 am »
Anyone ever attempted raw Yam?

If so, how did it go?

Phil

Offline ForTheHunt

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 04:49:28 am »
Doesn't work.

Read about it on wiki.. carb inhibitors, protein uptake inhibitors.. etc
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline technosmith

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 176
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 05:33:55 am »
Is this the consensus of opinion?

What do you think Iguana? Ever done raw yam?

Offline ForTheHunt

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 05:56:47 am »
Is this the consensus of opinion?

What do you think Iguana? Ever done raw yam?

It's not a matter of opinion it's a fact
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline laterade

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 857
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 06:38:08 am »
Iguana has said in the past that he eats raw yams.
I don't, they are much better boiled in spring water.  ;D

Offline ForTheHunt

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 08:26:57 am »
Iguana has said in the past that he eats raw yams.
I don't, they are much better boiled in spring water.  ;D

Iguana is also quite thin

Raw yams will stunt your protein intake and your metabolism
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline laterade

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 857
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 08:35:23 am »
Yea... I went from 135lbs raw veggie head in May2010 to 145-155lbs primal/paleo in december.
In mid january I started eating cooked veggies (with cultured veggies or butter), now I am coming close to 170.

Offline Sitting Coyote

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 07:34:10 am »
I've eaten raw yams.  It's something I'll eat in small quantities occasionally, but I wouldn't use it as a staple.

Offline Iguana

  • Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,049
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 03:59:20 pm »
Iguana has said in the past that he eats raw yams.

I eat sweet potatoes rather often. Yams, I don't know exactly what it is: the definitions I found on line are not clear.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline 00nightstorm

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 08:02:32 pm »
Sweet potatos or Yams will give me pain so bad in my kidneys that I can't lay down.  I have less reaction eating pizza.

Offline jessica

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,049
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 08:49:53 pm »
raw sweet potatoes make my jaws swell and my head feel as if it were going to ex plode...gross and sweet to me when cooked....i totally avoid them
sweet potatoes are generally orange tubers that are the root of a plant that is similar to a morning glory(they are in that family), they are native to south america, they are also considered night shades
yams are native to asia/africa, they have brown skin which can be thick/woody and are white inside, they belong to a whole different plant family based on how their seeds are formed, germinate, and other factors, but honestly the dichotomizing of plants is pretty ridiculous....african yams must be cooked before consumption

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 08:55:51 am »
...sweet potatoes are generally orange tubers that are the root of a plant that is similar to a morning glory(they are in that family), they are native to south america, they are also considered night shades....
The sweet potato "belongs to the family Convolvulaceae" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_potato), not solanaceae, aka nightshade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightshade) like white potatoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato).

Like you said, true yams are native to Africa and Asia. The so-called "yams" most commonly sold in the USA are actually a variety of sweet potato:

"Why the confusion?
In the United States, firm varieties of sweet potatoes were produced before soft varieties. When soft varieties were first grown commercially, there was a need to differentiate between the two. African slaves had already been calling the ‘soft’ sweet potatoes ‘yams’ because they resembled the yams in Africa. Thus, ‘soft’ sweet potatoes were referred to as ‘yams’ to distinguish them from the ‘firm’ varieties.

Today the U.S. Department of Agriculture requires labels with the term ‘yam’ to be accompanied by the term ‘sweet potato.’ Unless you specifically search for yams, which are usually found in an international market, you are probably eating sweet potatoes!"
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/sweetpotato.html

Quote
....african yams must be cooked before consumption
It seems so--at least for the varieties that are commonly cultivated. Does anyone know if African yam flour (elubo) is edible cold (raw)? I only found this, which suggests that the elubo is always cooked, but I wonder if it really has to be:

Another method of consumption is to sun dry the raw yam pieces. When dry, the pieces turn a dark brown color. This is then milled to create a powder known as "elubo" in Nigeria. The brown powder can be prepared with boiling water to create a thick brown starchy paste known as "amala". This is also consumed with the local stews and sauces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_(vegetable)

Some wild tubers can be eaten raw. For example, the long yam (Dioscorea transversa) of Australia can be eaten raw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwklPPEDbWM&feature=channel
Video subject: Australian aborigines
2:14 the goodfellow (long yam, Garrbarda, Dioscorea transversa) "can be eaten raw"

The Hadza only briefly roast their tubers or eat them raw:

"After a few minutes of roasting, a Hadza grandmother splits the charred orbs to expose the softened flesh of the nutritious, starchy tubers." (ibid)

Tubers eaten by the Hadza are usually roasted for about 5 min (Mallol et al., 2007). Nevertheless, they are quite willing to eat them raw. Hadza women often say they roast them because it makes them easier to peel. This reason for roasting is also noted in the ?lm ‘‘The Hadza’’ (Hudson and Woodburn, 1966). However, the Hadza sometimes say roasting tubers makes them taste better (though to us the change in taste is slight). (Tubers as Fallback Foods and Their Impact on Hadza Hunter-Gatherers, http://www.anthro.fsu.edu/people/faculty/marlowe_pubs/Tubers%20as%20Fallback%20Foods%20and%20Impact%20on%20Hadza%20AJPA.pdf)

According to the report, the most common wild African tubers that the Hadza eat raw (and lightly roasted) are the tubers of legumes, rather than Dioscorea (yam) herbaceous vines, and include:

Staple Hadza Yams (All Edible Raw)
Hadzane name - Scientific name; Notes
------------------------------

Matukwayako  - Coccinea surantiaca or aurantiaca

Penzepenze - Vigna sp. (Papilionoidea Leguminosae); leguminous plants whose flowers have butterfly-shaped corollas

//Ekwa hasa - Vigna frutescens; Perennial prostrate or climbing herb, growing from a woody rootstock; hatitat is seasonally burnt grassland and woodland (http://www.zimbabweflora.co.zw/speciesdata/species.php?species_id=132190); sweet and juicy and can be eaten raw ("Early Hominids Dug Food from the Ground," New Scientist Dec 12, 1985); woody perennial legumes

Do’aiko/Shakeako - Vigna macrorhyncha; woody perennial legumes with round, potato-like tubers; sweet and juicy and can be eaten raw ("Early Hominids Dug Food from the Ground," New Scientist Dec 12, 1985)

Shumuwako - Vatoraea pseudolablab; sweet and juicy and can be eaten raw ("Early Hominids Dug Food from the Ground," New Scientist Dec 12, 1985);  woody perennial legumes

------------------------------

Although the Hadza eat game meat regularly, they also collect berries, honey and several types of tuber. [Anne Vincent, a postgraduate student at the University of California at Berkeley] is in no doubt that with the aid of simple technology--digging sticks--and with a reasonable but by no means excessive amount of work, these people get good value for their tuber-digging efforts. The tubers need little preparation before eating; they can be eaten raw though the Hadza mostly prefer to roast them slightly, and they represent a very good and reliable source of nutrients throughout the year, if needed (World Archaeology, vol 17, p 131).

Tubers of five species of woody perennial legumes are collected (mostly by women) in Vincent's study area around Mangola near the seasonal Barai river and floodplain. All are rich in carbohydrates, are juicy and sweet, and need only peeling before being eaten raw or roasted.

Those of Vigna macrorhyncha and Vatovaea pseudolablab (called by the Hadza do'aiko and shumuko) are rounded--rather like potatoes--and grow no deeper than about 50 centimetres. Vigna frutescens has elongated tubers which the Hadza call // ekwa hasa or // ekwa gadabi [I believe the //'s are click sounds] according to which side of the river the plant grows. The Hadza women need to dig, sometimes down to 1.5 metres, to find these tubers, but can still obtain up to 5 kilograms or more of them for each hour's work. Each kilogram of tuber contains an average of 780 calories. The digging sticks take about 4 minutes to make with the aid of a steel machete, and last for about eight digging trips.

The women think nothing of walking upt to 8 kilometres from camp to dig roots, to gather berries and collect water[,] although, usually they need to go less than 5 kilometres to do so.
("Early Hominids Dug Food from the Ground")

Some domesticated tubers can also be eaten raw, such as jicama (also a legume tuber), yacon, Jerusalem Artichoke and Chinese Artichoke (if you are intolerant of inulin beware that these tubers contain lots of it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4wWdXctTHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFmGvzDfvew&feature=related

So at least five of the species of tubers that can be eaten raw are from legumes: jicama, Vigna sp., Vigna macrorhyncha, Vatovaea pseudolablab, Vigna frutescens. By Ray Audette's definition of Paleo (anything that you could obtain naked, with nothing more than a sharp stick--in other words, unprocessed foods that can be eaten raw), these legumes would appear to qualify as Paleo and thus his and Dr. Cordain's exclusion of all legumes from the category "Paleo" may be incorrect based on Ray's definition. However, just because you can eat something raw, with nothing more than a sharp stick to obtain, doesn't necessarily guarantee that it's healthful (peanuts and green beans are also legumes that can be eaten raw and most Paleos agree that they're not healthful), but it is interesting that the Hadza eat legume tubers as staple foods.

Ancient African hominins probably ate tubers long before the advent of cooking. Researchers analyzed the teeth of Australopithecus anamensis, "a hominid that lived in Africa 4.2 to 3.9 million years ago," and hypothesized that it "consumed a lot of root vegetables, nuts, insects [such as termites] and some meat [and probably mushrooms]." ("Early Humans Skipped Fruit, Went For Nuts" http://news.discovery.com/human/human-ancestor-diet-nuts.html) 3.9 mya is well before even Wrangham's extreme early claim of hominin cooking (roughly 1.8 mya).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMvprzmkz9o&feature=player_embedded
Video dramatization, in Spanish, of Australopithecines digging up and eating raw underground storage organs and then scavenged meat.

Translation of a comment from Spanish:
"When there is the seasonal fruits and tubers roots [a primate] group seeks to replace them. The Australopithecus [dominated by adapting] a varied diet [and had] different adaptations for feeding: hands became agile and dexterous since they no longer were used for walking, thick enamel on teeth [developed] to help them withstand [tough], dirty food, and grit. The australopithecines may have used basic tools such as digging sticks. They were not born with that skill."

'Australopithecus occupied a very similar environment to Paranthropus but had a varied diet all year round - including fruits, tubers, probably some insects, termites and animal prey,' says Dr Gabriele Macho, honorary professor in palaeoanthropology at the University of Bradford. ....

[T]he Australopithecus had all-purpose teeth, suited to vertical crunching and lateral grinding. 'Their teeth were more versatile and more resistant to wear,' she adds. 'Their diet probably included tough vegetables and tubers soiled with dirt, as well as some meat.' Such a high-quality diet was the pre-requisite for the subsequent evolution of our large brains
. (What did early humans eat? 10 August 2009, http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=502)

Some scientists believe that humans have more salivary amylase than other primates like chimps because our ancestors ate more underground storage organs:

"John Novembre et. al. reported in the October 1, 2007 issue of Nature Genetics that human saliva has significantly more of the enzyme amylase compared to chimpanzees.  Amylase breaks down starches into glucose which can be readily used by the cells of the body.  With more amylase, humans get more useable calories from starchy vegetable foods such as tubers, corms, and bulbs.  The authors suggest that this would have been a distinct advantage for early humans because these foods are readily available.  They believe that natural selection favored additional copies of the gene responsible for amylase production (AMY1) in our early hominin ancestors but not in apes." (Analysis of Early Hominins, anthro.palomar.edu/hominid/australo_2.htm)

Even chimps eat raw tubers:

"Chimpanzees prefer to dig for tubers and roots even when aboveground snacks are plentiful. ... Anthropologists had thought the roots and tubers only served as fallback foods for chimps during the dry seasons when sustenance was scarce." (Did our ancestors prefer meat, or potatoes? Findings show that our relatives liked to dig up underground foods, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21775270/ns/technology_and_science-science).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline jessica

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,049
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 11:19:20 am »
thank you phil for a much more in depth nerd analysis of tubers!!!!!
jicama are delicious, they are definitely my guilty pleasure...they dont even grow in this state and or country and i buy them and eat them...they are the only thing i eat that isnt organic....they are starchy and delicious!
are jerusalem artichokes considered tubers or roots? read up on em if you havent heard of them before, they are the roots of a sunflower plant and contain no starch but inulin, they are seriously delicious too, i planted a ton in the easement behind my moms house last week, hah they are known to take to be invasive and hard to get ride of in a farm setting but honestly if they spread and grow in a town i am not too bummed on that, they would grow there naturally....

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 11:54:44 am »
You're welcome Jessica!  ;D

They are Helianthus tuberosus, apparently so-called because the root is a tuber.

The yacon is apparently also a relative of the sunflower.

I tried jicama but didn't like it at all, even with lime.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

  • Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,049
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 04:52:33 pm »
(peanuts and green beans are also legumes that can be eaten raw and most Paleos agree that they're not healthful),

Good comprehensive post, Phil. But we have no problems with raw unprocessed peanuts. What makes “most Paleos agree that they're not healthful”? On what basis they classify foods as healthful and not healthful? Always the same old and obsolete dietary way of thinking.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline jessica

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,049
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2011, 08:16:19 pm »
oh man i gotta see if i come across any yacon and if it would grow here...!

it is believed that peanuts and other legumes contain toxins, antinutrients and allergens.  i think that this is true but the reaction that occurs in each individual is differs, as well as with each food in particular. 

i know for myself i cannot touch peanuts or soy, they give me a horrible rash, dark circles, bloating, poor ass mental state and mood swings, zero energy and cravings.  however i can eat green peas all day long with no issues, i can also tolerate most dried beans, as well as mesquite flour, however there is a limit and there is no way i these could be a staple...even know i dont choose to eat them because they give this really lethargic heavy feeling, although i know i am fed you know.......bleh, so to each there own for sure, but as with any generalization it has some basis in that a lot of people react poorly to these foods and i think because of the proliferation, poor quality and processing of these foods that people in general have better health in the absence of them...sometimes its not what you are consuming but what you are not comsuming that counts i guess

Offline cliff

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 09:14:44 pm »

it is believed that peanuts and other legumes contain toxins, antinutrients and allergens.  i think that this is true but the reaction that occurs in each individual is differs, as well as with each food in particular. 


All plant foods contain toxins and antinutrients to some extent.  Peanuts do seem to have there problems, high pufa and lectin content being the biggest two but we have hunter gatherers such as the !kung who heavily eat mongongo nuts which are also a very rich source of PUFAs and other toxins/antinutrients no doubt.  Hunter gatherers would not eat these foods raw imo though as they all know the value of proper processing.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 09:34:45 pm »
PUFAs are NOT toxins, they are nutrients.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 12:04:43 pm »
Good comprehensive post, Phil. But we have no problems with raw unprocessed peanuts.
Thanks Francois. Who is we?

Quote
What makes “most Paleos agree that they're not healthful”? On what basis they classify foods as healthful and not healthful? Always the same old and obsolete dietary way of thinking.
As you can see above, there is some debate over peanuts within the Paleo community, as with just about every food, but the majority of Paleo dieters (cooked and raw) appear to view peanuts as not-"Paleo" (you can find many of these folks at http://listserv.icors.org/ARCHIVES/PALEOFOOD.HTML and www.cavemanforum.com) because they are legume fruit pod seeds containing a fairly high level of lectins, are one of the most allergenic foods and are a New-World variety that was not specifically consumed by the Stone Agers of Africa and Eurasia (but African varieties probably were). Of course, people within the community also disagree over what "Paleo" means, so one cannot say that it's all "Always the same old and obsolete dietary way of thinking," as "Paleo" people don't even all share the same thinking.

On the pro-peanuts side, they are edible raw and are believed to descend from African wild groundnuts, which today include such varieties as the bambara groundnut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambara_groundnut), the fruit pod seeds of which however reportedly "must be cooked before being eaten" (http://books.google.com/books?id=JTr-ouCbL2AC&pg=PA358&lpg=PA358&dq=hausa+groundnut&source=bl&ots=11U0kdbbxc&sig=-T56Etq6q2B6Xq5ziwWevwuq2Qs&hl=en&ei=AU6RTb6BOcLAtgesnLF2&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=hausa%20groundnut&f=false) and the Hausa groundnut. Some scientists believe that Australopithecines ate groundnuts (http://news.discovery.com/human/human-ancestor-diet-nuts.html), which would have been raw, of course.

The tubers of at least some groundnuts are also edible (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Region's+wild+groundnut+ranks+among+its+incredible+edibles.-a0169584561) and some can be eaten raw, as with other African wild legume tubers, though it is usually recommended that they be cooked (ibid and http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/conn.river/groundnt.html). The American groundnut's tubers can be eaten raw (http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/The_Forager/hopniss.htm).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

  • Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,049
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2011, 04:37:16 am »
Thanks Francois. Who is we?

All the people I know practicing instinctive paleo nutrition for several years or often several decades or even ever since birth..

Quote
As you can see above, there is some debate over peanuts within the Paleo community, as with just about every food, but the majority of Paleo dieters (cooked and raw) appear to view peanuts as not-"Paleo" (you can find many of these folks at http://listserv.icors.org/ARCHIVES/PALEOFOOD.HTML and www.cavemanforum.com) because they are legume fruit pod seeds containing a fairly high level of lectins, are one of the most allergenic foods and are a New-World variety that was not specifically consumed by the Stone Agers of Africa and Eurasia (but African varieties probably were). Of course, people within the community also disagree over what "Paleo" means, so one cannot say that it's all "Always the same old and obsolete dietary way of thinking," as "Paleo" people don't even all share the same thinking.

I was referring to the way of thinking which supposes that there are healthy foods and unhealthy  foods. This is inherited from conventional nutritionists views, but its nonsense. A food can be healthy for someone in a certain state and at a certain dose while the same food can be unhealthy at an excessive dose or at another moment or for someone else.

The conventional way of thinking leads to absurdities such as to start a thread on this forum called “Don't Drink Too Much Water!”. Is water healthy or unhealthy ? Of course it can be both. You can get sick by drinking too much water (or even die by drowning in water), but you can also die by dehydration if you don’t drink enough. If I were about to die of starvation and if the only stuff I could find to eat were a piece of cheese, I would eat it rather then let me die. In such a case, cheese can be healthy!

There can be endless discussion about which foods are “paleo” and which foods are not. The only way to know which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't has been to experiment. 45 years ago, GCB and 2 or 3 other people (one of them I know very well also) launched a whole series of experiment on hundreds of mice, other animals and on themselves. It’s these experiments which lasted several years that showed the noxious effect of dairy, wheat, corn  (and to a lesser extend of other cereals). On the contrary, raw, unmixed, unprocessed peanuts, for example, induced no troubles whatsoever – of course when allowing the instinct to properly limit the amount ingested.  

Anything eaten in excess becomes unhealthy, no matter how healthy it is considered by the conventional nutritional science. Conversely, something raw considered noxious by the same science can sometimes be healthy for a particular individual when eaten in a properly limited amount.  

Cheers
Francois
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2011, 06:56:52 am »
All the people I know practicing instinctive paleo nutrition for several years or often several decades or even ever since birth..
So not a single one has a raw-peanut allergy or even slight sensitivity? That's interesting.

Quote
I was referring to the way of thinking which supposes that there are healthy foods and unhealthy  foods. This is inherited from conventional nutritionists views, but its nonsense. A food can be healthy for someone in a certain state and at a certain dose while the same food can be unhealthy at an excessive dose or at another moment or for someone else.
I think you may be reading more into it than what most Paleos mean. In my experience, most Paleos don't mean that the foods are instantly lethal in any quantity, but that they are not healthy staples for most people. It's possible I may be too lenient on this, but I'd rather err on the side of giving folks the benefit of the doubt than jumping to conclusions that they all have extreme absolutistic views. Do you not consider any one of wheat, barley, rye, corn, pasteurized dairy, soybeans, fava beans, castor beans, deadly nightshade, rosary pea, water hemlock or oleander to be unhealthy in this practical, staple-food sense?

Quote
The conventional way of thinking leads to absurdities such as to start a thread on this forum called “Don't Drink Too Much Water!”. Is water healthy or unhealthy ? Of course it can be both.
It seems like you're agreeing with the thread title. It doesn't say "Don't drink ANY water", it says "Don't drink TOO MUCH water." My experience has been that many disagreements arise from misunderstanding. If we assume the worst and seek out evidence to prove it, we will surely find it.

Quote
There can be endless discussion about which foods are “paleo” and which foods are not.
True, and I share your general preference for a broader, more holistic approach over a reductionist one. The more newbish folks tend to focus on the questions of whether this or that food is "Paleo" or "healthy" and I tend to skip over those threads (including the water one :P ) and I try to remember that I was a newb once too.

Quote
The only way to know which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't has been to experiment.
Experimentation is a major part of my own program, but I also use my mind. That's something we've discussed before and I think we agree on many basic points, such as the senses being very useful and underutilized tools, and perhaps we can agree to disagree on some of the details of how far one takes reliance on taste and smell and GCB's advice in this modern world of species extinction, altered foods, and people with disordered systems which modern civilization has wreaked havoc on.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 10:06:33 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline jessica

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,049
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2011, 10:47:57 am »
raw yam makes my jaw and face feel like its going to explode, hyper tension or something, its horrible

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2011, 08:07:53 am »
Here is more info on //Ekwa and shumuko (aka shumuwako), woody perennial legume tubers of the Hadza that can be eaten raw:


Caption: "Virginia Hall [a Delaware, USA student], guided by Hadza women, digs for //’ekwa."

The image isn't great, but notice that the Hadza woman does NOT appear to be starving--so tubers are not only consumed in desperation during times of famine by the Hadza but are actually consumed through more of the year than any other plant food, according to the Hadza food preference study (from that study: "Most foods vary seasonally, with the exception of some tubers and some game animals")--and I doubt that Delaware students would have taken the tubers, or even imposed on the tribe with a visit, if the Hadza had been starving.
Quote
January 15, 2011
 For our first day in the Yaeda Valley, we joined Hadza men and women in collecting two kinds of tubers (//’ekwa* and shumuko) and honey.  As we gathered, the women showed us how to eat the small, raw tubers, and later we sat around a fire to roast the larger tubers. -Megan Krol http://udtanzania2011.blogspot.com/2011/01/january-15-2011.html

From the Hadza food preference study:
Quote
Hadza women go foraging in groups of 3-8 adults plus nurslings and often some older
children. They mainly collect baobab, gather berries (and berry like fruit which we will refer to
as berries), and dig tubers of several species. They use simple, fire-hardened, sharpened branches
as digging sticks to dig tubers almost every day.
Below is an uploaded image from the study of sample Hadza foods, including a couple of the long //ekwa tubers. Notice that the //ekwa have a relatively high range of sugar content--probably not something that Paleo advocates of cooked starches who frown on fruits and honey would be pleased to see, and something that I hope will bring a smile to the faces of raw Paleo omnivores/adaptivores.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 08:44:13 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2011, 10:56:18 pm »
You are missing the point, as usual. The idea is that tubers were eaten in order to prevent the possibility of famine, not just during times of famine.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Raw Yam?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 07:50:06 am »
When I see the term "starvation foods," it doesn't bring to mind foods that are eaten on a near-daily basis, but whatever floats your boat. What term do you use for rarely-eaten foods that are consumed only when people are starving or desperate or when the hunter-gatherer lifestyle ceases to provide them with enough food and they are forced to adopt more extensive horticulture or agriculture to survive, such as has been posited as occuring among some peoples at the turning point of the Neolithic revolution when cereal grains began to be farmed much more intensively and consumed in much greater quantities? In other words, what term do you to distinguish the staple tubers that are consumed regularly by the Hadza from grass seeds and other foods that they apparently rarely or never eat, presumably because they hold them in even lower regard?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 08:29:08 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk