California

[Wolf]

The pasteurized organic non homogenized milk from trader joes(its from strauss farms) is better then OP milk imo, its half the price too.  Not raw but I'm not really concerned with 15 seconds of 160 degrees or so.

I've never had calaravile but I remeber it being even more expensive then OP

Also for anyone who doesn't know OP has some pretty shady practices, they outsource for a couple of there products like colostrum and I've read they will buy pretty shitty raw milk and pass it off as from there grass fed cows. 

He confirmed the statement and left a real beauty in my email inbox.
Not only was the colostrum from another dairy, but it was from one of the most notorious dairies in California: the Vander Eyk Organic Dairy out of Pixley, California.
Perhaps you have heard of the Vander Eyk Dairy right here on this blog. My husband and I stayed up late one June evening learning video editing to get this video out with the breaking news story.
The Vander Eyk Organic Dairy is the first and only dairy in U.S. history to lose its organic certification.
http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/blog/2008/04/the_elephant_in_the_raw_milk_r.html

OP parades around as "grass fed" alluding to being 100% GF but they aren't.  Imo Mark Mcafee is a snake and I would never support the dude.

I don't want to drink pasteurized milk, which is why I don't get the strauss milk.. Pasteurized milk tastes like plastic to me.  I've never drank the colostrum from OP, but even if the milk isn't as great of quality, it's never given me any problems, it tastes great, and it's raw.  IMO it seems pretty much the same as having to choose between eating raw organic possibly grain-fed meat, or cooked grass-fed meat.. I think I'd prefer the raw.. but to each his own

[cliff]

OP never gave me problems either, mark mcafee is still a snake

regarding pasteurized milk to each their own, definitely doesn't taste like plastic to me.  I think it actually taste better then OP personally and it seems to have way more cream(best part imo!).  It's half the price too and I notice no health differences(my health is superior now but that's due to other issues)

I don't think your comparison really holds up.  Grass fed meat and grain fed meat aren't as different as Grass fed and grain fed milk imo and  Cooking meat at high temperatures doesn't equal running milk through a 160F tube for 16 seconds.

[SteakNchop]

I don't want to drink pasteurized milk, which is why I don't get the strauss milk.. Pasteurized milk tastes like plastic to me.  I've never drank the colostrum from OP, but even if the milk isn't as great of quality, it's never given me any problems, it tastes great, and it's raw.  IMO it seems pretty much the same as having to choose between eating raw organic possibly grain-fed meat, or cooked grass-fed meat.. I think I'd prefer the raw.. but to each his own

Also, the county with Strauss milk (where I live) has the highest cancer rate in the country. Just something to think about.

If you ever want some sour cream, Nancy's beats out just about anything.

[eoterm]

Milk fats/cholesterol are very delicate and become rancid due to pasteurization, if I am not mistaken rancid fats = free radicals?   

[van]

organic pastures is not grass fed only.   They do grain.  Huge difference between grain and grass fed milk..

[CitrusHigh]

Ehrmehrgerd Van you aren't kidding! They get 5lbs of grain each day! Gross! Fuck OP, I thought they were 100% grassfed, guess McAfee is kind of a dingleberry after all.

[eoterm]

yep here something about Claravale and OP

http://healthytraditions.com/blog/post.cfm/certified-raw-milk-in-california-visits-to-the-two-raw-milk-dairies

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

California is known to cause cancer and birth defects.
Arizona is bettah.
I was born in San Diego, Ca. Won't ever move back.
Hell I don't even visit often.

Move to Az and coming hiking with me.

how does california cause cancer? radiation from fukushima?

[Wolf]

how does california cause cancer? radiation from fukushima?

Probably all the smog.  It's pretty terrible here sometimes, I wouldn't be surprised if I got lung cancer despite never having smoked a cigarette in my life.

Also the grain, fed to OP and Calravale farms cows, is grass grain, it is explained on Claravale farms' website here:  http://claravaledairy.com/faq.html
Just scroll down a few questions to "Are Claravale Farm’s cows totally pasture fed?"

a few things they mention there, "Contrary to popular belief, total, year round pasture feeding is not natural for cattle and is not the way in which dairy cattle have historically been managed. ... Year round pasture feeding of dairy cows requires the artificial creation of year round pastures by intensive irrigation, which requires energy and water, both limited resources in California. ... Hay is dried pasture.  Grain is grass seed.  All three of these feeds (hay, grain, pasture) are completely natural and important feeds for dairy cattle. All three are historically important feeds for dairy cattle. All three have been important components of the diets of dairy cattle for the entire history of their existence on this earth. ... A good quality, high producing dairy cow cannot do well on green pasture alone. Even the best pasture does not contain the nutrition it needs to produce the milk it was bred to produce. (Important note: this is different than for beef cattle that can do just fine on green pasture alone. Beef cattle only put on a few hundred pounds of weight in their lives. Dairy cattle do this as well and produce thousands of gallons of milk every year in addition.) ... Given long term free access to pasture, hay and grain they will eat lots and lots of hay and grain.  Historically, no dairy based culture has ever tried to artificially create year round pastures to feed dairy cattle. ... In addition, grass fed cows produce milk that has an "off" flavor. The older literature contains many references to the fact that cows which are on pasture produce milk which tastes bad. ... Every year when our cows do get some pasture we always get complaints about the taste of the milk."

that's only a very very small part of what they say on the website, there's a whole ton more of information they put up if you want to read it.  They also even mention OP in the question right after that one.

[van]

You gotta love marketing companies.  That means all the grass fed dairies are starving their cows from not feeding them grain (whoops, I'm sorry, grass seeds) for some part of the year.  I'm sorry, but I'm calling this bullshit.   Europe has been feeding their grass only fed dairy cow grass and hay only for hundreds of years.    But then there's a slight chance that they are actually calling the seed heads that grow on real grass grain.  My fields get that at the end of the year.   But to feed grain and call that grass seeds is just plain marketing.

[eveheart]

But to feed grain and call that grass seeds is just plain marketing.

Yes, it's just plain marketing. But, you have to realize that plain marketing tells the truth while relying on the consumer's ignorance.  In this case, ALL GRAINS are grass seeds. Wheat, rice, oats, corn, etc. are in the grass family. Grasses do go to seed at the end of summer, and a grazing cow would eat the seeds at the appropriate time of year. That's a far cry from year-round grain supplementation.

Another point of ignorance that this company relies on is the misconception that a natural pasture is all grass, when in fact pastureland consists of grasses and legumes, with a few other plants mixed in. I wonder what your dairy uses for their hay mixture?

Finally, I ROFLMAO'd at the assertion that a female bovine (cow) and a male bovine require different diets. That so-called difference only serves the dairy as it forces voluminous milk production; it does not benefit the animal, who would be far healthier on natural forage.

[eveheart]

Looking for good hunting grounds for deer or pig in Monterrey, Santa Cruz, San Benito, Santa Clara, Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, or other Zone A counties. My son is a licensed, considerate, sober, experienced hunter. Do you have a favorite place that is on BLM or private (not for a fee) land?

[Robinlove]

I'm in the Bay area In Cali. Lots of farmer's markets. I find raw, grass fed meats, butter, dairies, cheeses, kefirs, yogurts, and pasture raised eggs at the bigger ones. The food is great.

The population density, now that is a whole other ball game... Can of worms, really.

If you move to location you described, let's meet up and nom nom together.

[Robinlove]

Looking for good hunting grounds for deer or pig in Monterrey, Santa Cruz, San Benito, Santa Clara, Napa, Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, or other Zone A counties. My son is a licensed, considerate, sober, experienced hunter. Do you have a favorite place that is on BLM or private (not for a fee) land?

please take me with you if you find any. Im in the area and working on my hunting license.

[surfsteve]

I live about a hundred miles from death valley. There isn't much to hunt here except an occasional coyote and rabbits. The best way to find them would be to wait till dark and drive to town really fast hoping to hit one with the car. I am always having to slow down for them and swerve out of the way. I could probably get quite a few of them if I were to change my strategy.

[Robinlove]

Did you get enough info about your original question? 

I live an hour south of SF. I've lived in other California locations, too. Yes, I recommend this area... for its moderate weather, its cultural diversity, its educational opportunities, its lifestyle. It's great here. I've lived places that I have hated, so I realize that it's a very personal thing.

And, yes, there is great access to grass-fed meats, some at okay prices. Raw dairy is hard-to-impossible to find.

What part? I'm in San Jose.

[DeanNewman]

The pasteurized organic non homogenized milk from trader joes(its from strauss farms) is better then OP milk imo, its half the price too.  Not raw but I'm not really concerned with 15 seconds of 160 degrees or so.

I've never had calaravile but I remeber it being even more expensive then OP

Also for anyone who doesn't know OP has some pretty shady practices, they outsource for a couple of there products like colostrum and I've read they will buy pretty shitty raw milk and pass it off as from there grass fed cows. 

He confirmed the statement and left a real beauty in my email inbox.
Not only was the colostrum from another dairy, but it was from one of the most notorious dairies in California: the Vander Eyk Organic Dairy out of Pixley, California.
Perhaps you have heard of the Vander Eyk Dairy right here on this blog. My husband and I stayed up late one June evening learning video editing to get this video out with the breaking news story.
The Vander Eyk Organic Dairy is the first and only dairy in U.S. history to lose its organic certification.

OP parades around as "grass fed" alluding to being 100% GF but they aren't.  Imo Mark Mcafee is a snake and I would never support the dude.

Organic Pastures sneaks grains into their feed. I have a close friend who knows someone on the inside of Organic Pastures and he confirmed that they have been putting grains into the feed for well over 10 years -- while lying to the public and selling their products as "grass fed" -- destroying people's health while charging them grass fed prices. If they behave like this behind the scenes, what else are they hiding? I definitely don't buy their products. There are plenty of legit farmers out there.

[TylerDurden]

Thanks for that kind of info. There was a similiar issue re Aajonus and Fallon etc. What we depend on is helpful people who check the relevant forums to find out any irregularities....

[van]

I dont believe they Ever said they only fed grass.   They told me on the phone some years ago their feeding practices...

[DeanNewman]

Wow van, sounds like you may have gotten some accurate info from them. I imagine some others may have as well.

When I was researching OP two of their office employees, two Farmer's Market employees and one employee at another outlet told me unequivocally that they fed the animals grass only (sometimes a little hay). One of the employees even told me a story about how "bad" some of the other "grass-fed" companies were because they included grains in the food and OP didn't. And all of the local WAPF folks that I happened to talk to about OP told me that they believed that the cows were 100% percent grass-fed. I actually bought some of their products a few times originally but, of course once I found out the truth, stopped doing business with them.

[Apani]

I wouldn't be surprised, here in Italy farmers feed grains to their livestock all the time as they've been doing so for generations and see it as an healthy practice. My grandma does, so does my trusted butcher.

The lady who distributes raw milk in our zone has been told by a "doctor" working in the Parmesan industry to feed her cows with a grain & soy based multivitamin supplement. No wonder one of the cows had a river of mucus dripping from her nose...

[Dingeman]

The lady who distributes raw milk in our zone has been told by a "doctor" working in the Parmesan industry to feed her cows with a grain & soy based multivitamin supplement. No wonder one of the cows had a river of mucus dripping from her nose...

Fucking disgusting, people that mistreat their animals like that.. I have no words. Not only does it destroy the animal's health, it also destroys the health of the consumers.

[Apani]

I don't blame her, most people around the world have zero idea on what's an animal's natural diet, let alone an old uneducated farmer. Good luck ever sourcing any meat that hasn't had soy in it.

Anyways, give me some scientific articles documenting the dangers of soy and grain to animals and I will do my best to inform her.

[Apani]

Ok, so I visited the farmer lady and I got explained things in more detail.


When she wanted to start selling it, the milk from her cows was taken to a lab to be analyzed, and its values were too low. So she had to supplement it, or she wouldn't have been allowed to sell it. She looked everywhere to find non-GMO soy and corn, even just the seeds to grow 'em by herself, but the best she could find was a supplement used for the cows that make Parmigiano Reggiano.

This begs the question, do farmers in other countries also have to feed GMO soy and corn in order to be able to sell raw milk? If that's the case, that would explain TylerDurden's problems with it.

[TylerDurden]

Hmm, there really are some people with food-intolerance/food-allergies towards raw milk, however grassfed etc. I will admit that I read online rumours that grassfed farmers routinely fed their cattle on grains as this apparently stimulated milk-production or some such...Point being that sheep etc. are fed on far less grain, some 0%, yet I still had problems with raw sheeps milk.

I had an MRT scan a while back which showed brain-damage, and there are a number of studies showing how dairy/grains etc. can cause brain-damage, not just the usual allergy-related symptoms such as skin-rashes etc.