Fat on the Wai Diet

[magnetic]

Where is the fat in the Wai diet?  I recently purchased 5 pounds of different fish and seafood: wild tuna, cod, scallops and mahi.  I have been eating this for the last couple days, along with a moderate amount of fruit for some meals (usually when I first wake up).  Now, I was looking at nutritional information on the cuts I bought and there is very little fat, it is very lean:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4045/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4143/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4194/2

Is the source of fat in a paleo fish diet to be found somewhere else?  Coconuts?  The skin of the fish?  Maybe I should be buying whole fish?

Also, I really like raw fish more than raw meat.  I like my raw meat, but the fish is like candy, the scallops are sweet and almost melt in your mouth.

[TylerDurden]

Wai diet is very low in fat unless you do something strange like eat tons and tons of raw avocadoes and the like.

Raw seafood may be relatively lean compared to meat from land mammals but it is very nutrient-rich. I find that, for me, a diet too high(70 percent plus of my raw animal food intake) or too low in raw seafood(less than 10 percent of my raw animal food intake) means I am not as super-healthy as I could be.

[magnetic]

Wai diet is very low in fat unless you do something strange like eat tons and tons of raw avocadoes and the like.

Raw seafood may be relatively lean compared to meat from land mammals but it is very nutrient-rich. I find that, for me, a diet too high(70 percent plus of my raw animal food intake) or too low in raw seafood(less than 10 percent of my raw animal food intake) means I am not as super-healthy as I could be.

I always thought seafood was fattier.  Maybe I will try to incorporate fattier cuts, as I like consuming a good amount of fat.

[goodsamaritan]

Fat on wai diet:

- egg yolks
- extra virgin olive oil
- fatty raw fish

when I did wai diet I never liked olive oil.
I found fatty fish... blue marlin is fatty and affordable in our markets.

I also ate a lot of fresh coconut meat which is fatty and anti-parasitic.

[magnetic]

Fat on wai diet:

- egg yolks
- extra virgin olive oil
- fatty raw fish

when I did wai diet I never liked olive oil.
I found fatty fish... blue marlin is fatty and affordable in our markets.

I also ate a lot of fresh coconut meat which is fatty and anti-parasitic.

Thanks, I don't like olive oil too much either, at least I prefer animal fats.  I will probably continue to eat fish but in limited amounts instead of Wai because of the low fat content.  I could eat scallops for "desert" every day though.

[Löwenherz]

Wai diet is very low in fat unless you do something strange like eat tons and tons of raw avocadoes and the like.

If I remember correctly the Wai diet is very high in fat. Olive oil (oo) was always recommend in copious amounts. The basic concept was: sugar PLUS fat, that means high sugar, high fat, low protein. And that's the reason why so many people reported massive tooth decay, blood sugar issues and brain fog. The author (Thijs Klompmaker) was sipping orange juice with lots of olive oil the whole day and told everyone to do the same. It's a recipe for diabetes in the long run, IMO.

Does anybody know what happens to the wai diet forum?
Is Klompmaker still active in the field of diet and nutrition?
His website has not been updated since 2006.

Some of his papers are quiet interesting. His essay about antinutrients in raw plant food is one example.

Löwenherz

[magnetic]

If I remember correctly the Wai diet is very high in fat. Olive oil (oo) was always recommend in copious amounts. The basic concept was: sugar PLUS fat, that means high sugar, high fat, low protein. And that's the reason why so many people reported massive tooth decay, blood sugar issues and brain fog. The author (Thijs Klompmaker) was sipping orange juice with lots of olive oil the whole day and told everyone to do the same. It's a recipe for diabetes in the long run, IMO.

Does anybody know what happens to the wai diet forum?
Is Klompmaker still active in the field of diet and nutrition?
His website has not been updated since 2006.

Some of his papers are quiet interesting. His essay about antinutrients in raw plant food is one example.

Löwenherz

Could you post a link to the paper you mention above?  I would be interested in reading it, thanks.

[Löwenherz]

Could you post a link to the paper you mention above?  I would be interested in reading it, thanks.

As far as I can see, the original wai diet website with all the papers is offline.

Round about five years ago there was a new one:

http://www.waiworld.com/

But it contains only a small fraction of the original site. I'm pretty sure that "Wai" realized that his diet causes severe problems. That is probably the reason that everything is offline now. But perhaps there is a new web adress that I don't know.

Löwenherz

[Löwenherz]

Could you post a link to the paper you mention above?  I would be interested in reading it, thanks.

Here is a brief description of the basic sugar/fat recommendation in the Wai diet:

The text below is taken from
http://www.newtreatments.org/diet.php


Wai Genriiu's Fruit:Fat rule
Wai's diet is in fact a raw paleolithic diet with the focus on balancing fruits with enough fats. For each gram of carbohydrate you should at least eat half a gram of fat, directly after you ate the carbohydrates (read: fruit). The fat makes sure your bloodsugarlevels won't fluctuate. This is a perfect addition to the Raw-Paleodiet. She also says that people with acne should eat no more than 100 grams of meat or fish or a total of 5 egg yolks. That's because in people with acne the skin gets clogged easily because of the high water pressure caused by high protein levels in the blood.
Use this Excel sheet to calculate how much fat you need to eat after eating different fruits.
Read more on Wai's diet on her website: www.waisays.com and FreeAcneBook.com.

One note on Wai's diet: Out of my own personal experience, I conclude that the diet does what Wai claims it should do: All my acne disappeared within 3 weeks of strict adherence to the diet. However, I developed symptoms that were due to high blood sugars: Adrenalin overshoot, causing me feeling stressed all the time. I think Wai's diet is safe when the adrenals and the pancreas and the thyroid are in perfect working order. However, when that's not the case, like with me, you will develop problems with the blood sugars. Please swap to a low-carb version of the raw paleolithic diet. That will probably take care of the acne and cellulite also.. Or even better: Choose a raw version of the Homo Optimus Diet

[PaleoPhil]

Wai Genriiu's Fruit:Fat rule
Wai's diet is in fact a raw paleolithic diet with the focus on balancing fruits with enough fats. ....

FYI: Klompmaker has extolled the virtues of refined table sugar which is neither raw nor Paleo, though he lists it as an optional food in his recommended diet:

> "Although table sugar is (almost) devoid of any micronutrients, it is still a macronutrient, a useful source of energy. If daily requirements of micronutrients are met, there is therefore no objection to the use of sucrose in order to meet daily macronutrient requirements." (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/twd-sugar.html)
> "Different types of table sugar exist, but we recommend the use of white refined sugar, because most of the impurities (possible sources of toxic substances) have been removed." (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/twd-sugar.html)
"Table sugar is an excellent source of extra energy, as long as it isn’t taken at the expense of necessary vitamins and minerals. As a guideline: maximally 50% of the total energy intake." (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/thewaidiet.pdf)

The processing of sugar cane into table sugar includes boiling, refining, centrifuging (which involves some more mild heat) and drying with hot air ("Sugar from Field to Table," http://www.sugar.ca/english/consumers/sugarfromfield.cfm).

Plus, he makes some other non-Paleo statements like: "Consuming the right fruits supplies you with all the protein you need. And if you think you need extra amino acids, you should consume high quality raw protein." He lists Brazil nuts as having the highest "quality" protein. (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-fruitprotein.html).

Make of it all what you will.

The Wai diet forum is here: http://www.waiworld.com/waitalk/phpBB3/index.php

Klompmaker's website is here: http://www.thijsklompmaker.com/

[Löwenherz]

Wai Genriiu's Fruit:Fat rule
Wai's diet is in fact a raw paleolithic diet with the focus on balancing fruits with enough fats. For each gram of carbohydrate you should at least eat half a gram of fat, directly after you ate the carbohydrates (read: fruit). The fat makes sure your bloodsugarlevels won't fluctuate. This is a perfect addition to the Raw-Paleodiet. She also says that people with acne should eat no more than 100 grams of meat or fish or a total of 5 egg yolks. That's because in people with acne the skin gets clogged easily because of the high water pressure caused by high protein levels in the blood.
Use this Excel sheet to calculate how much fat you need to eat after eating different fruits.
Read more on Wai's diet on her website: www.waisays.com and FreeAcneBook.com.

One note on Wai's diet: Out of my own personal experience, I conclude that the diet does what Wai claims it should do: All my acne disappeared within 3 weeks of strict adherence to the diet. However, I developed symptoms that were due to high blood sugars: Adrenalin overshoot, causing me feeling stressed all the time. I think Wai's diet is safe when the adrenals and the pancreas and the thyroid are in perfect working order. However, when that's not the case, like with me, you will develop problems with the blood sugars. Please swap to a low-carb version of the raw paleolithic diet. That will probably take care of the acne and cellulite also.. Or even better: Choose a raw version of the Homo Optimus Diet

I forgot to make it clear (quote) that the above text was taken from another website. It's not my own text/report.

From my own experience the Wai Diet is just nonsense. Table sugar is one reason, the avoidance of meat from land mammals is another...

Löwenherz

[magnetic]

I forgot to make it clear (quote) that the above text was taken from another website. It's not my own text/report.

From my own experience the Wai Diet is just nonsense. Table sugar is one reason, the avoidance of meat from land mammals is another...

Löwenherz

I thought of it as more of a paleo diet that focuses on fish instead of land meats, which would make some sense as the human diet may have been very heavy in fish before we learned to hunt better and make sophisticated tools.  But you are right, any diet that includes table sugar is not a good idea for health.

[goodsamaritan]

I didn't see the table sugar recommendation when I was doing wai diet.

[Iguana]

FYI: Klompmaker has extolled the virtues of refined table sugar which is neither raw nor Paleo, though he lists it as an optional food in his recommended diet:

> "Although table sugar is (almost) devoid of any micronutrients, it is still a macronutrient, a useful source of energy. If daily requirements of micronutrients are met, there is therefore no objection to the use of sucrose in order to meet daily macronutrient requirements." (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/twd-sugar.html)
> "Different types of table sugar exist, but we recommend the use of white refined sugar, because most of the impurities (possible sources of toxic substances) have been removed." (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/twd-sugar.html)
"Table sugar is an excellent source of extra energy, as long as it isn’t taken at the expense of necessary vitamins and minerals. As a guideline: maximally 50% of the total energy intake." (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/thewaidiet.pdf)

The processing of sugar cane into table sugar includes boiling, refining, centrifuging (which involves some more mild heat) and drying with hot air ("Sugar from Field to Table," http://www.sugar.ca/english/consumers/sugarfromfield.cfm).

Plus, he makes some other non-Paleo statements like: "Consuming the right fruits supplies you with all the protein you need. And if you think you need extra amino acids, you should consume high quality raw protein." He lists Brazil nuts as having the highest "quality" protein. (Source: http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-fruitprotein.html).

Yes, white refined sugar (sucrose) is certainly one of the most if not the most noxious ordinary foodstuff, so these comments of this guy Klompmaker are one of the most utterly stupid things I've ever read.   

[magnetic]

Yes, white refined sugar (sucrose) is certainly one of the most if not the most noxious ordinary foodstuff, so these comments of this guy Klompmaker are one of the most utterly stupid things I've ever read.   

Well, if I wanted to become a raw food guru (I don't) I could build on his ideas and come up with a raw paleo diet similar to the Wai diet (sans table sugar and other modern/neolithic foods), so I think some of what he has to say isn't completely boneheaded.  The diet may be better than eating a SAD or raw vegan, etc.

[Löwenherz]

Yes, white refined sugar (sucrose) is certainly one of the most if not the most noxious ordinary foodstuff, so these comments of this guy Klompmaker are one of the most utterly stupid things I've ever read.    

Yes, absolutely! And I think even copious amounts of oils are definetely not advisable. All oils are partially rancid, even olive oil. It's much better to eat an whole avocado than using avocado oil for example...

Löwenherz

[Löwenherz]

Well, if I wanted to become a raw food guru (I don't) I could build on his ideas and come up with a raw paleo diet similar to the Wai diet (sans table sugar and other modern/neolithic foods), so I think some of what he has to say isn't completely boneheaded.  The diet may be better than eating a SAD or raw vegan, etc.

One of the major problems with all "standard" diets is the combination of sugar PLUS fat, which always leads to numerous and serious health problems. McDougall, Esselstyn & Co. show that it is possible to be "relatively" healthy on a cooked low fat diet (although far away from optimum, IMO), even with high amounts of cooked starchy foods. But fat PLUS sugar always causes problems, diabetes for example. Therefore I don't think that the Wai diet is much better than a "normal" diet. After a few days on this fruit + olive oil combination I got extreme (!) blood sugar problems for the first time in my life and felt absolutely terrible... The funny thing was that I never looked better, hehe. Fruit + olive oil is somehow fantastic for your complexion. That was the only positive thing.

Löwenherz