paleo friendly chicks

[sabertooth]

I have 27 new baby chicks and would like to raise them in the most paleo fashion, the problem is that all chick starter feeds are full of grain. I got a bag that is supposed to be anti biotic, and hormone free, but its still mainly grain based. They are unvaccinated and I don't plan to medicate them. I just wonder if and when I should begin feeding them better stuff? And what should I feed them that wouldn't be to expensive? When they are grown I plan to free range them and give them table scraps, but now I have them in a little pen for their own protection.

 My kids use them as action figures

[sabertooth]

sometimes my lamb fat goes sour, I wonder if I could feed them old fat scraps along with the grain based feed to improve the nutritional profile.

[CitrusHigh]

I have a couple years experience raising truly free range chickens.

In order to keep our chicks healthy and growing fast I feed them the cheapest antibiotic and hormone free meat I can find, usually ground turkey is what I end up with.

To understand how to raise animals successfully and healthfully you need to know them intimately. Chickens are generalists much like pigs, and to some extent ourselves. Consider what this chickens wild relatives would eat. The jungle fowl which evolutionsts say is the grandparent of domestic chickens and hardly distinguishable from them, would scratch its way across the forest floor. Eating pretty well whatever it comes across that it feels its need. Whereas cows use their noses to detect the nutrients they need, chickens, which can see color, use their eyes. They would be eating bugs, any animals small enough to swallow (ie baby snakes, frogs, baby mice maybe), seeds, fruit, vegetation, ANYTHING practically. The point is that they eat meat too and thrive on a good variety of foods. So for you that means giving them a bit of ground meat each day, plus some sort of seeds, some veggies and some fruit. It either needs to be soft, or easily tearable or cut/ground in to much. They have very little strength at that age and can pretty well only eat what will easily fit in their mouths whereas a full grown chicken has a fairly powerful beak. Don't get too hung up on what to feed them, just make sure they're getting as much as they want to eat and that it's a good variety. No avocado though, I've heard reports that it's poisonous to birds, not sure of veracity but it's about the only real exception. You will also want to provide some small fine grit, doesn't need to be purchased, anything small enough from outside your house is fine.

Good luck, I just dropped a few eggs in our incubator, can't wait to have the little peepers out, they're so cute!

[CHK91]

I see what you did there...

[CitrusHigh]

haha Paleo friendly chicks, WHERE?? I don't see any babes....oawwww you tricked us!

[KD]

well, that was a misleading heading

I've never raised animals myself so this is just based on things I've acquired and from talking with farmers

these kind of birds - not being ruminants - are natural seed (grain) eaters.

particularity if they are separated and in an artificial environment, they will possibly not survive at young age without grains or seeds. When they get older its possible to raise to some degree without grain (of some kind) but they won't lay eggs and will be too thin. THis is why there is basically no chickens that are not fed grains, so its kind of confusing why people then say chickens are unhealthy because they eat grains, sorta like saying a cow is unhealthy because its vegetarian.

you could try things like sorghum and healthier grains (whatever is appropriate to these kinds of birds of course)

I was talking to a farmer just the other day that was raising ducks in incubators and feeding some grain (not sure what else he feeds them at that stage) but later in life they (unlike chickens) survive well just in the pond and pasture without any grain feeding.

I'm not in the camp that believes a feedlot grain fed cow can be converted to a healthy grass-fed cow later in life, but since birds are natural seed eaters, I'd say They have a good chance to be healthy this way. Afterall many people claim that eating raw foods can create healthy tissue eating the kinds of foods that we have available, so if you plan on pasturing them outside later in life, this has to be easier than 20-30 years of absolute crap to create a healthy 4 lb animal.

[goodsamaritan]

When we took care of ducks and chickens we just fed them some raw rice grains and our fruit peelings and they ran around the garden for grass and grubs.

[MaximilianKohler]

It's a shame insects like worms aren't more available for both chicken feed, and for humans. Worms seem like they'd be one of the best insects to eat - highly nutritious with little to no fiber.

[Löwenherz]

these kind of birds - not being ruminants - are natural seed (grain) eaters.

particularity if they are separated and in an artificial environment, they will possibly not survive at young age without grains or seeds. When they get older its possible to raise to some degree without grain (of some kind) but they won't lay eggs and will be too thin. THis is why there is basically no chickens that are not fed grains, so its kind of confusing why people then say chickens are unhealthy because they eat grains, sorta like saying a cow is unhealthy because its vegetarian.

Todays fowl like chicken is extremely overbred. It's true that these kind of birds can eat grains BESIDE so much other thinks like worms, herbs etc. Nevertheless the amounts of grains fed to chickens have nothing to do with a natural diet. And no natural bird would ever lay so many eggs like chicken we know from farmers.

Löwenherz

[goodsamaritan]

Blond chick.

[jessica]

that is an absolutely gorgeous little girl!!:)
go to your library and check out some books on backyard homesteading(barnyard in your backyard is good), small scale organic farming, raising chickens..etc...there are a lot of great books out there right now, you can pretty much ignore all of the antibiotics as long as your ladies are given enough room, clean water(twice a day, they love to poop in there water when they get older!) a nice little laying pin with roosts and healthy food.  i am not sure when to start, but a good organic chicken feed is necessary if you do not have a field of forage(redclover and plants that attract bugs, seed grasses, others animals to poo an create maggots) and will include corn(they really dont eat it though, its definitely the least favorite) millet, sunflower seeds, just small seeds and grasses you would find on the ground in any healthy field, you can feed them all of your kitchen scraps(fruit, veggies, really finely crushed egg shells(if they are low on nutrients they will eat each others eggs! or if one if broken open....omnivores:!), they love greens!!!
its important to keep them warm in the winter, although they are extremely hardy, and let them have shade in the summer(they will bake to death in the sun) and learn as much about them as possible........sometimes if they are stressed, old, dehydrated they will blow out there egg vents, which means you now have a meat hen, its best to know if your ladies are under stress or injured so you can treat them, take them away from the healthy birds and/or take them from their suffering...........
if the organic feed is too expensive, find other farmers in the area and see if you can go in on pallets of feed, its also a good idea to contact any local organic food markets/cafes and ask them what they do with their "spoil" produce/kitchen scraps, i have worked in many organic markets and delis and it was always nice to have my chicken people come pick up all the veggies that where not good enough to sell or use but certainly still nutrious, you can also ask if they ever have any spoiled bulk seeds, if you feel like you would like to give them some sort of probiotic(which i would recommend for them and anyone on city/chlorinated water, you can give them a small dilution of EM-1 by em america, you can take it, use it on fields, let it help you break down compost, its the best stuff, i would say a tablespoon or two per gallon of water a few times a week or less for them if you feel the need)............hope that gives you some ideas:)

[magnetic]

It's a shame insects like worms aren't more available for both chicken feed, and for humans. Worms seem like they'd be one of the best insects to eat - highly nutritious with little to no fiber.

Insects are arthropods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect

Worms aren't:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worm

[KD]

Todays fowl like chicken is extremely overbred. It's true that these kind of birds can eat grains BESIDE so much other thinks like worms, herbs etc. Nevertheless the amounts of grains fed to chickens have nothing to do with a natural diet. And no natural bird would ever lay so many eggs like chicken we know from farmers.

Löwenherz

hmm, ok. Plenty of farmers I know feed their chickens very marginal amounts of grain. What you are are saying about breeding applies equally to beef, and I'd say IMO less so to most fowl. The point is if you try to eschew ALL grain, the birds won't be very healthy because that is part of their diet..and not vice versa. If they are truly being pastured and have access to all the kinds of other natural nutrition and sunlight, the concern is fairly misplaced re grains for birds if one assumes both humans as well as birds do well on a varied diet.

[jessica]

you can purchase heirloom breed chickens that are more closely related to wild fowl and less bred for production

it is true that in industrial situations there are chickens that are bred, fed and their environment monitored (ie hours of light per day, hormones, antibiotics) so specifically just for massive egg laying that they are not good for much else, would not survive in the wild, have low immune systems, poor genetics, etc.......
that said this is the just a microcosm of ANY INDUSTRIAL SYSTEM....schools, jobs, normal society...they are created for production of $$$$ not production of life or true sustainance(clean air, sunlight, water, fertile soil, healthy plants and animals, healthy communities...)
remember that birds and humans are different......what is true of what birds eat and thrive with is different from what is true for what humans eat and thrive with, this also varies between individuals of both species because none of us are duplicates, come from the same ancestry, have been raised in the same environment, have had different life experiences, etc........same with breeds and individual chickens

[KD]

yeah, I was more saying that the plus of variety of both our diets (omnivorous animals - not ruminants) outweighs any obsessions over such intakes, particular when these are misplaced to begin with. I tend to eat bison that is fed some grain even though grain likely is not part of a buffalo's natural diet. Very few bison conversations get into how unhealthy bison are to eat even though they almost universally eat some grains except from rare farmers and distributors. It seems clear on paper and my experience that bison does well in my diet in delivering nutrition as opposed to an all beef diet. Ditto chickens, particularly because they actually thrive on some grains and seeds.

[Löwenherz]

hmm, ok. Plenty of farmers I know feed their chickens very marginal amounts of grain. What you are are saying about breeding applies equally to beef, and I'd say IMO less so to most fowl. The point is if you try to eschew ALL grain, the birds won't be very healthy because that is part of their diet..and not vice versa.

Very marginal amounts of grain, really? What do they fed them?

Of course, beef is also breeded, but their diet is still natural if 100% grass-fed.

I didn't say that one should eschew ALL grain wheen feeding fowl. The amounts of grains should be lowered to more natural levels, as you mentioned. Unfortunately this seems to be very uncommon here (in Germany).

BTW: I find the taste of grain fed fowl really disgusting whereas wild pheasant is fantastic...

Löwenherz

[CitrusHigh]

Jessica has some good advice but I diverge from her opinion on organic starter. The stuff typically uses soy as it's source of protein and they don't have to tell you where the methionine that it will inevitably contain is derived from. But the fact that it is derived is bad enough, and on top of that it may be coming from farmed fish or other 'organic' sources. The methionine is included because chickens apparently can't make their own. This wouldn't be a problem if they were being fed clean meat or bugs but current Ag laws probably don't allow for feeding meat to fowl.

At their current age they should only be going through a Tbsp of raw ground meat each day.

On top of that, you're paying for the word organic.

Trust me, it's not hard to raise chickens, just give them enough water, a good variety of food, including some meat, and if they have any kind of decent genetics they'll practically raise themselves once they get outside. Again, I would stay away from commercial starter blends, even if organic.

Just think like a tracker and figure out what your animals need, whatever kind they are, and then provide that.

[klowcarb]

I'm paleo friendly 

[sabertooth]

Thanx everyone for the advice, I kind of have an Idea about how I will raise my new chickens.
I already have 5 egg layers that I raise from chicks about a year and a half ago.

I started them out on a starter feed, and then began to give them table scraps which included meat and fat.

I let them free range once they were large enough. There is plenty of room behind my house where an open field that goes back about 80 acres is on the other side of my fence. They would go under the fence to forage, but they always crawled back under the fence to roost at home to lay eggs in my shed. I threw out a little corn and oats in the wintertime, but it was just a handful a day, and through the spring and summer I used no grains, although I did use some old bread, and other wheat based scraps. I kind of had a slop bucket set up where I would scrape all the food waste into and throw out to the chickens. I have supported my chickens without having to buy much feed at all.

These new chicks I want to make into free range birds. I will cull off most of the roosters early on and am thinking of ways to fatten them up healthily for the slaying.

Could I put them into a pin and feed them extra lamb fat and meat scraps along with road kill, a possible fish head and whatnot..

Could I cultivate maggots in buckets and feed them fresh maggots or is there some other type of easy to grow insect.

I just want the best quality eggs and meat for my family, and I am convinced that , If you want something done right you should learn to do it yourself. One day I hope to have a complete homestead where I can free-range sheep and goats, keep rabbit hutches, with enough chickens to sell the extra eggs. Until then I want to learn how to raise the healthiest animals possible. I may look into getting some more goats to milk one day, because although I don't drink dairy , my children seem to do well being weened from the breast to goats milk.

Raising my own food animals be the only way I could mange to protect my family from the terrible quality of most store bought foods.


I want to know how to finish off a bird so that it will taste good as well as have a good nutritional profile.

[CitrusHigh]

Yes, you could pen them up. Everything you mentioned is fine, if their wild counterparts were to come upon a carcass, assuming their were no predators present they would feed both directly on the carcass and on any maggots growing in it. But they also really benefit from greens so even if it is just a clump of grass each day, make sure they're getting that too if they're penned.

You can cultivate maggots but they usually feed on foods that chickens will eat directly anyway so may be an unnecessary step. Maggots are most useful from cow pies because the droppings are inevitble, the maggots are just a bonus food supply and decomposer.

Permaculture sounds like what you're looking for saber. If you work in tandem with nature then you could have a yourself a nice food forest that only needs management instead of excessive  (or ideally any) input.

Check out sepp holzer's work, it sounds like what you're after and it's a fine goal!

[TylerDurden]

If I ever got round to raising chickens, I would be curious to find out what  all-carnivorous chickens and their eggs tasted like raw.

[jessica]

http://www.sustainablechicken.com/

"breed selection will be important: choose chicken breeds that are good foragers, more wild and hardy, able to walk around and feed themselves from the land.

deep bedding within the hen house and in an enclosed outdoor area can develop into a rich, deep compost over time that will provide many small bugs and insects that the chickens will be able to scratch and peck into for a substantial amount of their protein needs. There are many forms this strategy could take.

compost can be used in multiple ways by poultry for supplemental feed, and to turn the compost for the gardener, saving some labor and chiropractor bills.

planned grazing around a property allows chickens to access a variety of food sources, spread their manure around, and give them and you the pleasure of each others company. Obviously chickens love to roam the garden, scratching and pecking on a daily rotation around a property, finding bugs and soil critters, and eating the plants and herbs they like to keep them healthy. Planned grazing implies that you are pulsing the chickens out into a section of the property in a deliberate manner, in order to minimize any overgrazing or damage to the plants within that  property section, limiting any buildup of manure and possible pathogens, and minimizing the damage to soil roots and mulches (from dust baths for example). Planned grazing also implies that you are making sure there is adequate food within the property section for the chickens to eat. If it is mostly bare ground, there won’t be much for the chickens to eat.

Joel Salatin claims chickens can get 20% of their daily calories from grass (You Can Farm, page 233).  I assume this is calories from carbohydrates (seeds) and protein from bugs and lots of minerals and vitamins from fresh grass and herbs. Carla Emery confirms this saying chickens “will use greens for 20% of their diet” (page 652)

chicken food forest is a mixed planting of multiple plant species that chickens are known to prefer. A food forest generally consists of a mix of trees, shrubs, perennials, grasses and herbs. There are many species that can fit the requirements for a useful food forest, and special attention should be given for mixed use species, plants that provide food for humans as well as chickens, might be placed to screen an unsightly view, or might provide shade.

duckweed could be the cornerstone of a sustainable poultry farm. Research indicates that duckweed  is not difficult to grow, and is one of the richest sources of protein. As you might infer from the name, it is a weed that poultry like. The richer the brew it grows in, the higher the protein and the higher the quality of feed produced.

home food scraps are a well known and well used strategy. There are ways to improve the palatability and usability of the food scraps, that will increase the quantity that the chickens eventually eat.

worms and vermiculture is another well used strategy. High in protein and easy to grow, wrigglers can be an important food source for chickens, and oh how they love to eat them.

gleaning is collecting unused food resources that would otherwise go to waste. One of my favorites in Santa Fe was grabbing the large bag of popcorn leftover from the movie theater at the end of the night.

OK, that’s probably the major strategies, let us know if you have other ideas."

[sabertooth]

I do remember that last winter just around the time I started this diet my friend dropped off a 180 pound deer he had hit with his truck, I dumped all the awful and other waste scraps into a tub and put it on the edge of the property. The chickens pecked at it for almost 2 months out of the winter, and they kept their weight and they looked about as plump and healthy as any chickens I have seen. That may be the best strategy for winter time feeding of free range birds, just placing guts and entrails where thy can peck at it. Even if it is half frozen all winter they can still peck at it enough to get plenty of nourishment, and even after it got rotten after a thaw they still would eat it.( high meat for chickens)

My one rooster was more carnivorous than the rest, he would get up on the porch and eat the dog food, I also fed him more meat scraps than the others. He was the nicest thing around and would be the first one waiting for my wife to feed them, until he came into full maturity, then he became a monster, that would attack anything. I gave him to my friend and he would play fight  with his dog all day, eventually he became too aggressive and began to attack his girlfriend and room mate, so he gave him to his neighbor who raise prized breeding cocks(the poor bastards didn't have a chance) The first night he had them all in the same coop, he killed the two prize roosters and bred with all the hens.

 A Meat based diet will make your rooster a barbarian, he was a beast that was a half leghorn, half buff , but he was much bigger and more aggressive than my other two roasters of the same breed who didn't have access to the dog food and extra meat scraps.

[miles]

I see what you did there...

ha

Blond chick.

ha

[raw-al]

I'm paleo friendly 

Finally someone stood up er laid down.... LOL