To the Carnivores/ZC'ers - Highest percentage of protein allowable in your diet?

[Paleo Donk]

This question is posed for those that are mainly carnivorous - say those that get less than 10% of the calories per day from carbohydrates.

Let's pretend you are stuck with only two options on choosing a diet - A relatively healthy SAD or the current diet you are on now. If you kept the carbohydrate in your diet equal and were allowed to change the percentage of protein, how high would you allow it to get before you made a switch in diets? What is this maximum allowable percentage of protein in your diet?

So, for instance, if your diet is now 10% carbs, 20% protein and 70% fat, a switch at the 45% protein level would give you a diet of 10% carbs, 45% protein and 35% fat. If you thought the healthy SAD is better at this level then you would vote accordingly at the 40-50%. Where would you make that switch?

[sabertooth]

This is a scary thought, being forced to eat higher protein than being accustom to, I have had a terrible experience the few times I ran out of raw fat sources and had to eat a few meals that were mostly lean meats with no fat. I felt horrible and desperately began to search for alternate fat sources, I would usually end up buying some bone marrow until my butcher can get me some more lamb fat. I am a hopeless fataholic, and

I often wonder if faced with the choice of either switching back to the sad diet or going through rabbit starvation on a low fat paleo, I would have to opt out of such a dire situation. Worst come to worst I would become a hunter or a cattle thief, rather than go back to SAD. I was pre diabetic before going raw paleo and this high fat diet is the only thing that has saved me from developing type 2 diabetes, going back to SAD is not an option for me..

[Techydude]

I'd say about 60% protein cause you need a good amount of fat I heard to back up the protein or you'll get sick from protein poisoning or something? I dont remember. But yeah Sabertooth is right, my first experience with paleo low fat high lean was the worst experience, it was similar to when I was almost entirely vegetarian, cause I had almost no fat, I couldnt think my head hurt and my stomach was slightly always hunger panging and I was missing something but couldn't put my finger on what.

[Josh]

Sabertooth, I'm lucky because in the UK I could get lamb at the supermarket which is grass fed and would do in a tight spot. Could you do that?

[Löwenherz]

What is this maximum allowable percentage of protein in your diet?

This is a very interesting question. If my protein ratio gets too high I always feel lethargic and very depressed. Adding some fruit or some raw fat immediately let me feel good again.

My protein intake shouldn't exceed 50-60 % of toal calories, round about. But I have to measure it more accurately in the future to get definitive numbers.

Tyler, I guess your protein intake is sometimes much higher than 50-60 percent, right?

Löwenherz

[TylerDurden]

Tyler, I guess your protein intake is sometimes much higher than 50-60 percent, right?

Löwenherz

  That's what I thought some time back, but I'm sure I'm wrong and it's a bit lower.

[sabertooth]

Sabertooth, I'm lucky because in the UK I could get lamb at the supermarket which is grass fed and would do in a tight spot. Could you do that?

Yeah I have actually went to the whole foods and bought some cuts of lamb belly when I had no other source of fat available.

It was 5 dollars a pound(cheaper than the leaner cuts) and was fatty enough to cure the headache of protein overload, until I could get more free fat trimmings

[Löwenherz]

It was 5 dollars a pound(cheaper than the leaner cuts) and was fatty enough to cure the headache of protein overload, until I could get more free fat trimmings

Yes, sometimes I also got headaches after eating too much protein, even if the protein / fat - ratio was ok.

And I always get plugged ears and ear pressure if I eat too much protein. Has anybody else here also noticed such symptoms?

0,5 up to max. 1,0 kg of meat per day seems to be optimal for my body. Zero Carb is still not working. I need small amounts of carbs from fruits and vegetables every other day.

Sabertooth, how much meat do you eat per day?

Löwenherz

[Paleo Donk]

Its interesting to see that 4/7 people that have voted so far said they'd eat greater than 70% protein. I wasn't going to even make this an option but apparently I should have just gone all the way to 100. A diet of 100 percent protein and you will almost surely die very quickly. Check out the redfulcrum experiment if you need confirmation. In my opinion a diet of 70% protein will probably kill you sooner than later as well.

A diet of 70% protein for an inactive person getting around 2000 calories per day would be around 350 grams per day or in the area of 4-5g/kg body weight for most people on the board which is more than even the upper echelon of intense body-building programs recommend. Don Matesz (a paleo blogger), wrote extensively on health problems of the inuit and for me it seemed like a likely cause was the excess protein in their diet which modern science has confirmed has lead to urinary calcium excretion when protein starts to climb above 2g/kg. He posted a few papers(I don't link papers anymore) and one stating that protein became toxic at 280g/day.

Obviously, I wasn't thinking people would actually sit down and do the maths as most are unaware of what a high protein diet will do in the absence of other energy. There is simply a limited capacity to turn protein into energy. Once you exceed this capacity the protein has no where to go.

[miles]

No one said we had to just accept it forever. While we're getting 70% protein calories RPD, we can be fighting. Whether that's fighting to get to somewhere where fat/carbs are available, or fighting the person making us choose.

[sabertooth]

Yes, sometimes I also got headaches after eating too much protein, even if the protein / fat - ratio was ok.

And I always get plugged ears and ear pressure if I eat too much protein. Has anybody else here also noticed such symptoms?

0,5 up to max. 1,0 kg of meat per day seems to be optimal for my body. Zero Carb is still not working. I need small amounts of carbs from fruits and vegetables every other day.

Sabertooth, how much meat do you eat per day?

Löwenherz

I would say that I eat almost two pounds of red meat(more or less depending on how much I work) , with a variable amount of fat trimmings, bone marrow and other organ meats.


I am also on the low carb side, but cannot manage well without at least 30 to 50 grams of carbs each day, mostly from coconut butter, and lemon water.

It seems that a small amount of carbs helps me have better energy and keep up a healthier apatite than if I try to go without any carbs.

There is a definite need to find a balance between fat and protein on the low carb Diet. It seems that I work out my ratios instinctively, with eyeball measurements and either adding more fat or meat onto the end of a meal if my cravings have not been fully satisfied. There is some instinctive force that keeps me eating a fairly high portion of fat compared to protein. I may eat about half pound of lamb fat or more each day, along with the fat in coconut butter, and the occasional piece of marrow, I estimate that the total percentage of fat calories would be around 65% pr higher

This is a standard meal for me, although I will usually have to add a little more lamb fat at the end of the meal, but this is the portion of what I eyeballed out that one day.

[Paleo Donk]

smiley, If you had an assigment to make a really nice looking triangle, you'd probably make it with 7 sides. Then for an encor you'd make it two sided just because you can.

[KD]

well, the wording was a bit confusing. I mean, you mentioned healthy SAD diet, and If one was to do that..they might only have like 25-90 more years to live, whereas with protein overdosing you might live a much shorter time but you'd be eating a raw paleo diet.

Obviously, I wasn't thinking people would actually sit down and do the maths as most are unaware of what a high protein diet will do in the absence of other energy. There is simply a limited capacity to turn protein into energy. Once you exceed this capacity the protein has no where to go.

heh,

yeah to me like anything no single studies will be too convincing particularly when people will duck behind ideas that people ate cooked foods or did this or that so "who knows". But to me this last part is pretty undeniable.  If one chooses to eat carnivorously or even just alot of animal food, it pretty clear that harmful or not that eating proteins over fats..or even carbs I guess is fairly inefficient as a energy strategy, nevermind a health strategy.


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To me I would certainly choose a Primal Blueprint type diet over a raw diet high in protein or carbs. The problem actually is that there aren't really a lot of fats either in the cooked paleo (supermarket) world unless you are doing the same kinds of things on raw: getting fat scraps/suet and other shit from small farms and rendering it and such. Seems to be the same kind of effort required unfortunately so the last thing I want to do is cook it. In theory I probably would eat a WAP diet also over either..but not sure exactly how that would feel. Either way..another huge option is just sourcing fats from veg sources like avocado, coconut as well as eggs and dairy sources.

[miles]

KD, healthy SAD diet must mean following the food-pyramid exactly, and standard government/doctor advice.

[KD]

KD, healthy SAD diet must mean following the food-pyramid exactly, and standard government/doctor advice.

hmm, why must it mean that? I would consider that to be a 'poor' SAD diet. I generally like to use the term SWD myself as it has less of a pretentious acronym, but I'd say a "healthy SAD diet" is a diet thats not necessarily restrictive of any foods but with concentration on not eating alot of processed junk and focused largely on whole and organic foods and includes animal food. Basically people that are conscious about what they eat but still eat out a restaurants or whatever and probably start the day with wheat bran and OJ. Basically people who aren't diet freaks but aren't diabetics or on tons of drugs. Essentially the bulk of most reasonably healthy people.

Just my interpretation.

I see your point though.

[klowcarb]

Not sure what this thread is about.

After 2 years of pure Zero Carb, I have found the percentages that work for my bodybuilding lifestyle. I need to be able to lift heavy and hard, but stay lean.

From Fitday, I feel/look/perform best when my fat is 67-70%, carbs are around 1% (from eggs and organs) and protein is 30-33%. I plan my meus to reach this exact proportion.